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Hello Dakkanauts!

I am curious what you think the best set-up is to face a GK list that will include Draigo as a special character. My list must include Crowe. We are playing at 2000 points.

What do you think I will be facing in the Draigo list?

What GK units would you bring to counter Draigo?

I am thinking mind-strike missiles . . . ?

Also thinking Calidus assassin . . . ?

All thoughts/comments appreciated.

Thanks!

A Crowe list should beat a Drago list fairly easily as you will have more numbers. You're force weapons will be a perfect counter to terminator armoured, 2 wound Paladins.

I would try and take a couple of Storm Ravens. As you mention, the mindstrike missiles will be handy, but you will also want to ensure that you are as manouvarable as possible to get the charge and ensure that your opponent strikes at I1.

broke grenades ftw

I think that Draigowing will perform better against most opponents than purifier spam, but purifier spam should beat Draigowing for some of the reasons already mentioned. I would ignore taking storm ravens though, and put out as many purifiers and razorbacks as possible. Anything with high rates of fire is the way to go against Draigowing.

helium42 wrote:I think that Draigowing will perform better against most opponents than purifier spam, but purifier spam should beat Draigowing for some of the reasons already mentioned. I would ignore taking storm ravens though, and put out as many purifiers and razorbacks as possible. Anything with high rates of fire is the way to go against Draigowing.

Just curious, why is it people put Purifiers in Razorbacks when you get the same amount of shots with Purifiers in Rhinos at the same Strength and Range? Is there something I'm missing?

People like razorbacks as tanks, the purifiers often are not in their transports.

In a match between Draigo + GK versus Crowe + GK, Crowe has an advantage.

Consider, Dreads with their s8 are great against paladins, as a failed 2+ save is 55 points.

Versus Purifiers, a failed 3+ is only 24 points.

Purifiers also have a lot more units, and more vehicles, which is a big advantages as long as the mission is not Kill Points.

It's more balanced a match up than people think. I've fought it a few times, always as Draigo/Paladins. In Annihilation, Purifiers should expect to lose, in the other games it will be close with the purifiers having a better chance of winning Capture and Control (Seize ground in my experience is quite good for paladins, counter-intuitively)

The paladins have the advantage in assault, the Crowe list must really rely on volume of fire as GK lack the low AP needed to stand a reasonable chance of ID-ing paladins.

The best unit to take out Draigo is Crowe (using his special 'mutual death' power). A Vindicare can help too and is also useful for dealing with the ineviatble Librarian (who will give the Draigo-list a distinct edge in the psychic battle too.

Given a typical non-tailored Crowe list will field something like 10-15 psycannon (at the higher end if you have razorbacks) and 8-10 TL autocannon plus around 30-40 stormbolter shots, assuming razorbacks are chosen to maximise the psycnnon you're looking at something like:

15 S7 rending shots = 10 hits = 20/3 wounds + 5/3 rending wounds = 10/9 + 5/6 (assuming cover but no Shrouding) unsaved wounds = 35/18 unsaved wounds.

30 S4 shots = 20 hits = 10 wounds = 5/3 unsaved wounds

8 S8 shots = 8 hits (slightly generous but twin-linking...) = 20/3 wounds = 10/9 instant deaths.

Put that altogether and you have a generous 4 wounds plus an instant death (which can be taken on an already wounded paladin or perhaps assigned to Draigo).

Even if no losses are sustained through return fire or assault, it still takes the Crowe list 3 turns fire to remove a single 5-man paladin squad and 5 turns to remove a ten-man one, and it'll take focusing everything on it (ie ignoring dreadnoughts, dreadknights and/or stormravens if present).


What kills paladins?

S8+ and low AP fire. GK get this from henchmen and stormravens.

Mindstrikes. Stormravens.

Force Weapons. Any GK troops (but given Draigo will bring a Librarian, this is erratic).

So I'd say a non-standard Purifier list is in order regardless of what particular list the Draigo player brings (it will likely either be dual ravens with either 15 paladins or 10 plus 2 dreadnoughts or an all foot list with 20 paladins. If he brings a foot list and you have stormravens then his Librarian is dead if you've brought mindstrikes).

Crowe - 150

Vindicare - 145 (can remove Draigo's invun)

3 Stormravens (he will likely have 2 at most, you are maximising your mindstrikes here and if you equip them with melta and lascannon then they are decent paladin snipers and can dogfight opposing ravens fairly well too) - 615

2 dreadnoughts - TL autocannon, psybolts - 270 (these aren't that effective against his troops, they're still good if he brings ravens and they'll kill a paladin or two each over the game).

So that's 1180, leaving 820.

I'd run the troops as:

10 Purifiers: hammer, 4 psycannon, 5 halberds - 315

10 Purifiers: hammer, 4 psycannon, 5 halberds - 315

leaving 190 points.

Normally I wouldn't run a Librarian in a Crowe list. But you want his hood against paladins as they will have a Librarian.

So Librarian, Might, Quicksilver, Sanctuary, the Shrouding, Warp Rift is 175 points leaving you 15 to spend.

You have a Stormraven for Crowe and each of the two 10 man Purifier squads, a Librarian to accompany one squad and two dreadnoughts plus assassin. That's 11 kill points and so he's not going to have the usual huge advantage in Annihilation as he'd generally enjoy against a typical Cowe list rich in AV11 targets.

If you get Quicksilver off, you can assault his paladins with some confidence. You will match or outclass him in mobility and you'll have more low AP fire than he does. It's not a gret all-comers Crowe list, but it will stand a lot more chance against Draigo than a standard one.

Thanks to Blood and Slaughter for the detailed response.

We are definitely allowed to bring tailored lists. In fact, it is expected in the league we both play in.

I made my list pretty damn close to what you suggested under the heading "What kills paladins?"

I am bringing an Inquisitor with psyocculum and 12 jokaero as his henchmen. Am also bringing a techmarine to bolster the ruins where this unit will be placed. The math is much more in my favor with 12 lascannon shots at BS 10?????

Game is later today.... Stay tuned.