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Played my first game vs tyranids today as mech guard, went alright though there were some issues I could do with adressing:

1)Zooanthropes destroyed my tanks, how do I take these guys out? Usually the bulk of my firepower (hellhounds, plasmavets) were concentrating on shooting the 'nid units right in my face.

2)What heavy support choices are best against 'nids? I feel that my troops and hellhounds can handle their assault units pretty well, but I could do with something to kill monstrous creatures at range.

3)Handled his objective-camping Tervigon well enough with Al'Raheem in a chimera with 4 Plasma Guns, plus deep-striking stormtroopers with Plasma Guns and Plasma Pistol, but this seems like a lot of points that could be put into moar dakka. Any way I can take down a regenerating 6 wound monsterous creature without spending a third of my points on it?

I figure missile launchers are a pretty good catch-all.

You can use the Krak ammunition against MCs and frags versus the little guys.

An Exterminator Russ with Heavy Bolter Sponsons can throw out a tremendous amount of S5 and S7 firepower.

But I've never had a Big Critter problem my Vanquishers couldn't handle; multi-melta sponsons with a hull las cannon... Maybe Pask in one to re-roll those failed wounds...
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Sexy...

Use the reroll cover order combined with lots of plasmaguns and lascannons. The tyranid book is extremely deficient in Invulnerable saves, so cover is basically all they have to protect them from low AP weapons.

KplKeegan wrote:An Exterminator Russ with Heavy Bolter Sponsons can throw out a tremendous amount of S5 and S7 firepower.

But I've never had a Big Critter problem my Vanquishers couldn't handle; multi-melta sponsons with a hull las cannon... Maybe Pask in one to re-roll those failed wounds...
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Sexy...

Yeah I used the varient that ignores cover saves today (was rubbish) and was thinking of scrapping them for more plasmavets.
Pask in a Vanquisher would be pretty viable though since 'nids have next to no long-range AT. Except those, I think they were, Hive Guard, the ones with Assualt 2 S8 weapons...that do not require LOS *and* don't allow cover saves in most circumstances. Admittidly this can be rectified in future games but it's still a bitch.
Anyway cheers for the replies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GreatGunz wrote:Use the reroll cover order combined with lots of plasmaguns and lascannons. The tyranid book is extremely deficient in Invulnerable saves, so cover is basically all they have to protect them from low AP weapons.

I don't think his MCs got a cover save from anything since they're pretty big. His hordes/genestealers were handled by Hellhounds, which didn't allow covers either.

Monstrous creatures can still get cover. In any case though low ap weapons will shred his big guys. You have a million lasguns so the little guys shouldn't be a problem either.

It's true there are cases when they grant cover, and that order is useful.
But that'd mean not being in transports...which means death.
It can be useful if there's something that really, really needs to die. Hive Tyrant springs to mind.

Chimeras have four fire points IIRC

Yeah but you can't issue orders to embarked units.

Testify wrote:
Yeah I used the varient that ignores cover saves today (was rubbish) and was thinking of scrapping them for more plasmavets.
Pask in a Vanquisher would be pretty viable though since 'nids have next to no long-range AT. Except those, I think they were, Hive Guard, the ones with Assualt 2 S8 weapons...that do not require LOS *and* don't allow cover saves in most circumstances. Admittidly this can be rectified in future games but it's still a bitch.
Anyway cheers for the replies.

Well, for 5 points more, you could get a demolisher. You could probably even count the eradicator as one, since that small cannon looks a lot like one anyways. As opposed to Ap 4 S6, you get AP2 S10, although I would use it for clearing out hordes and weaker multiwound models, which I think tyranids have lots of. Then, you can always use it as a fallback for putting easy wounds on his bigger guys, although that would kind of be a waste of a template.

Of course, if you've got eradicators, that means you have normal Leman Russ kits, which (hopefully) means you've got normal russes you can use. Give them a try. Every opponent I've ever played against hates them (for a good reason ), and they're even cheaper than the eradicators! Then, you've got a large blast thats AP3 S8, and you could throw on a lascannon or heavy bolter sponsons and go big creature hunting. With the sponsons, you'd also have the option of taking down hordes as well, which is always nice.

I've also heard the Punisher is death incarnate to MC's, so you might want to look into that one, although its not nearly as flexible as demolishers and vanilla russes are. That said, who wouldn't want to field a tank with a giant gattling cannon on the turret? Although, I have to admit, I would only bring one if I knew I was playing against nids, orks, or IG. I don't think they'd really earn their points back against other armies.

GreatGunz wrote:Chimeras have four fire points IIRC

They've got 5 actually, which always amazed me. Those dudes must move pretty fast to have 5 guys fire through a single hatch in the span of about 15 seconds

Plasma death tanks do well against just about anything that is not >AV12. They are expensive, but 5 plasma blasts can throw wounds on an MC no problem or blow a big unit of bugs to shreds.

Although I think a Punisher, Exterminator, and good old fashioned russ would also serve you well.

In the event of genestealers, stay the hell away from the table edge.

So tyranid are nasty. They don't have the shock power of orks and they don't have the staying power of guard, but they have enough of both to be a serious hassle. What I've found the best thing against tyranid is to just roll as many dice as possible. You have an edge in staying power, so really you have to think of beating them in the same way as you beat orks (except it's a little more difficult, but your aren't penalized so badly when you can't pull it off).

Dice and more dice is the answer. This means FRFing the little ones, for example, but it is especially true for the big ones. TMCs are NOT the same as vehicles. You can't just deliver a couple of juicy +D6 or Ap1 shots to it and expect it to fold, nor can you stun-lock it, or neturalize it with immobilization or weapon destroyed results. They are just as potent at 1W as they were back when they started with 6W.

This means that you have to avoid, as much as possible, things that rely on just one solid attack to do their damage, as a single solid attack is doing, at most, 1W to MCs of all stripes. This means that you should shy away from anything that uses a large blast template to do its job, and move towards things that have multiple shots.

For example, an exterminator, for the same cost, is going to do much better than a battlecannon. This means that plasma stormies are doing a lot more than melta stormies (same for vets). It also means that HWSs are less friends along for the ride and more your only source of salvation. Heck, as mentioned, this is one of the very, very few sanctioned uses of a punisher.

So to start, you need to have things that put out lots of shots at long range to handle the worst of their MCs (in your case, apparently, zoanthropes), with enough screener units to blast the little bugs as they come rolling in. Once the MCs close, you need to have something that's able to put down multi-shot stuff in serious concentration, like vets and special weapons squads, etc.

... that or just find a way of taking a few units of rough riders. Start them in reserve and wait for something to get close. Then, from up to 24" away (that's right, up to half the board), they shout "surprise" and absolutely liquefy a MC(s) in close combat on the charge.

Wait, how do rough riders liquify monstrous creatures? They're low WS, and even strength 5 is a 5+ to hit Tyranid monstrous creatures. Also they're lower initiative than most of our beasties. Of course they are cheap, that's certainly nice.

Squash wrote:Wait, how do rough riders liquify monstrous creatures?

Well, to start with, they're I5, which is faster than most things in the tyranid codex. Yes, it doesn't beat a broodlord, but it does beat carnifexes, tervigons, warriors and zoanthropes, and ties hive tyrants, all of which I'm much more likely to see on the other table.

So, that's 21 attacks going at or before the MC gets to swing. Yes, only WS3, but once again, nothing but the broodlord and the swarmlord are making them hit on anything worse than 4's.

That 10.5 hits, yes, faces an uphill battle against T6 (which even then, not 100% of TMCs have), but that's still 3.5 wounds that run up against the invul save they don't have.

If you've got anything else to even ding the MCs with, rough riders can easily provide a knockout blow, all for costing only 2/3ds of what the MC cost. Plus, there's no way the MC is winning that first round of combat, and not all TMCs are close combat machines of doom. It's entirely possible to still score another wound with just regular attacks by the cavalry the next turn.

In an army that can otherwise sometimes struggle with monstrous creatures, rough riders are a godsend. that unit of 3x zoanthropes in lance range may be scary, but a single squad of rough riders can wipe it out in a single charge without any help from anyone else. Problem. Solved.

Ailaros, just know that I'm not trying to be aggressive at all, and I agree they seem like the best CC option imperial guard have to take on monstrous creatures, but I wanted to clear a few things up.

1. Warriors, broodlords and zoanthropes aren't monstrous creatures.

2. The only TMC that aren't toughness 6 are harpies (which are barely ever used) and spore pods (which shouldn't need to be charged)

3. They will only fight simultaneously to a hive tyrant (probably the biggest monstrous creature threat people will actually encounter in games) if it doesn't have a lash whip, which is rare.

4. 3.5 wounds really doesn't cut it against a monstrous creature that could have 4 wounds, but probably has 6.

I'm not saying they're a bad option, I'm just saying they don't liquify the target.

What i have found works well at stalling the bugs is my 30 man platoon ( ten man a squad ) armed with Missile Launchers and Grenade launchers . sitting back with my Company command Squad

2) Chimeras ....Chimeras and chimeras .. I run 3 chimeras in my army with Autocannons , Heavy Bolter chassis mounts (with exception of one which is a hvy flamer ) Stormbolters and hunter kill missiles .. The pour out enough firepower to sqush anything in yoru way , just asl ong as they don't get hit with bio-plasma you are fine

3) For handeling their large creatures i normally run Russes in this config --- Standard russ (battle Cannon ) Plasma sponsons and a lascannon ......Pricy yes but it sure beats the hell out of anything close to it ........

4) ABUSE FIELD ARTILLARY ---- I say this with utter meaning your best friend against bugs ( among many ) are Morters , Manticores , forget bassis can't get enough shots off in time , the Manticores can get 3 strength 10 Large Templetes per turn , sure it only has 4 shots but nothing will be left by then given that you roll right .,.,,,, Yes that is very reliant on rolling ...........--- With morters they are particuarly cheap have good damage and don't scatter to badly in comparision ,................ and having a master of ordaniance never hurt either ....... just sayin

Hydras would be a good option.
Don't need orders to reroll and with a 72" range, you can start hitting things turn 1(that you can see!)

If you're running mech vets, stick heavy flamers on the front of your chimerae & play aggressively with them. If you're moving every turn, the small bugs are going to be hitting you on 4's, and theyre only going to be able to glance you to death anyway, so you can get right in there and cause some serious damage with your flamers.

This leaves the actual vets inside the tank free to attempt to put wounds on MCs with their plasma & meltaguns. Don't forget you have orders from your CCS that are relevant to shooting MCs too.

alarmingrick wrote:Hydras would be a good option.

Yeah, this definitely fits the "lots of shots" motif. I've taken down a couple of MCs with hydras in my day. For 10 points cheaper than a tervigon, you put down 3 S5 and 6 S7 hits per turn. That's probably good for a failed armor save or two.

Plus, they can also hurt the little 'uns as well.

somecallmeJack wrote:Don't forget you have orders from your CCS that are relevant to shooting MCs too.

...orders which can't be received by embarked units?

Zoanthropes are pathetic in H2H so you can charge them with nearly anything and if it doesn't win it ties them up for the shooting phase.

If you want to shoot them to death lots of cheap shots is better than a few powerful shots, because of their invulnerable save.

MCs are best dealt with by shooting with plasma, lascannons, etc. Most of them have only a 3+ save even if they have 6 wounds.

Also, ditto to what somecallmeJack said about Chimaera mounted melta Vet squads.

Regeneration is fun but it can only win games by good rolling. I usually take it on my MCs because I like the high risk strategy.

if you are running vets inside chimeras why not try primaris psykers for HQ options, they can ride with the vets have 24 inch range assault 2d6 STR 6 ap 5 lightning of death... it will only use up one fire point so you still get to shoot 3 plasma/melta dudes and a lasgun.

This also stops orders from being useless since they dont use orders.

I second the Primaris psyker. I have found he works well in combination with anti-infantry weapons. I run mine with a PCS with 3 grenade launchers and one vox. Last game they put upwards of 15 wounds on noise marines. Granted, one lived, but 15 wounds is nothing to laugh at.

So it turns out 'nids have much deadlier AT than other races.
4 Zooantrhropes (each of which with a S10 AP1 Lance PSA), a Tyrannofex (with a 24" S10 Assault 2 shooting attack) and 3 Hive Guard (3 Assault 2 S8 [i]that do not require line of sight to shoot and only give cover to area terrain[/i[).
Next time I will have fewer Hellhounds and more Hydras. Armour saturation ftw.
Also my outflanking Vendetta w/plasmavets was uninspiring. It disembarked them next to an objective, then they rapid firing killing 2 shooty-things, before being shot/assaulted and wiped out, and the vendetta being popped by the tyranofex before being able to fire a single shot (flat out the turn it arrived, then 1ed, then popped).

1)
That was his strategy, distract you with gaunts and destroy your tanks, you can counter this by using cadians for example as cannon fodder to slow down the gaunts and focus the rest of your power on the zoanthroaps.

Testify wrote:So it turns out 'nids have much deadlier AT than other races.

... wat.

4 Zooantrhropes (each of which with a S10 AP1 Lance PSA),

That's 2 elite slots, and an 18" range on that PSA - so the order is Psychic test, to-hit roll, penetrate roll

a Tyrannofex (with a 24" S10 Assault 2 shooting attack)

It's 48" actually - and a 265 point model minimum.

and 3 Hive Guard (3 Assault 2 S8 that do not require line of sight to shoot and only give cover to area terrain).

with a 24" range and yeah - these guys are pretty awesome.

Overall I'd rather have, I dunno, a sub 200 point model with 3 TL Lascannons.

Testify wrote:
Also my outflanking Vendetta w/plasmavets was uninspiring. It disembarked them next to an objective, then they rapid firing killing 2 shooty-things, before being shot/assaulted and wiped out, and the vendetta being popped by the tyranofex before being able to fire a single shot (flat out the turn it arrived, then 1ed, then popped).

One Vendetta is nothing. Bring three (strictly as separate units), Outflank them, use an Astropath to get them where and when you want and start killing bugs freely. 3 Vends = 1 dead 6 wound MC per turn. Load up the Vends with trimelta/DC vets and you have the ultimate swiss knife unit.

If you truly want to screw up the 'nids then do an all-reserve army. Nids don't like all-reserve IG. Not at all !

AtoMaki wrote:

Testify wrote:
Also my outflanking Vendetta w/plasmavets was uninspiring. It disembarked them next to an objective, then they rapid firing killing 2 shooty-things, before being shot/assaulted and wiped out, and the vendetta being popped by the tyranofex before being able to fire a single shot (flat out the turn it arrived, then 1ed, then popped).

One Vendetta is nothing. Bring three (strictly as separate units), Outflank them, use an Astropath to get them where and when you want and start killing bugs freely. 3 Vends = 1 dead 6 wound MC per turn. Load up the Vends with trimelta/DC vets and you have the ultimate swiss knife unit.

If you truly want to screw up the 'nids then do an all-reserve army. Nids don't like all-reserve IG. Not at all !

I don't have enough models to proxy 3 Vendettas or I would every game.

- Kill the Zoanthropes with anti-infantry weapons (lasguns, autocannon/heavy bolter) - don't waste AP1/2 shots on them.
- Kill the Synapse units quickly as possible.
- Kill the big beasts with plasma and melta (don't forget your orders).
- Keep your tanks mobile and cheap.
- Heavy flamers are your friend.
- Don't forget about the mission.
- Don't forget about outflankers - keep sacrificial squads on the board edges.

Good HS choices:

2x Griffon w/2 heavy flamer
- For killing everything bar the big ones.
2x Hydra w/2 heavy bolter
- For putting wounds on the big ones (without FNP).
2x Battle Tanks w/2 lascannon
- Will munch through all small and medium bugs quickly, and can put up to 4 wounds a turn on the big bugs.

Also, if you're going to put plasma vets in a flier, use the Valkyrie with ML + MRP - you can maintain 12" move + full shooting, as well as dump the vets to plasma something. Vendetta's should, IMO, hang back and shoot hard targets from T1.

evilbishop wrote:2x Battle Tanks w/2 lascannon
- Will munch through all small and medium bugs quickly, and can put up to 4 wounds a turn on the big bugs.

I'd also note that nids have a lot of medium-strength stuff that would hate this. Zoanthropes get their save against the battlecannon, but not the lascannon, and if either of them stick a wound, say hello to instant death. Likewise, warriors will put on a BIG frowney face against this unit. They're not efficient against MCs proper, but they're not awful either, as you can expect to stick a wound or two on a tervigon each turn with this squad.

Plus, the battlecannons also work against the little things as well.