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alright, I have been come to be known as paper mache` at my local GW because I used notecard models to proxy as a vindicator and recently the rapier defense platform. now I dont have a job yet so money is really really tight and I cant afford to drop 50$ on emperor- models if I find they will die in the first turn. Im a noobie. I need to find out how things work. what else can I do.? I want to know what things would do, and how they would work in games.

What would you suggest? I see other guys bring proxied things and paper things to a game (and not get called out for) and the people I played against said it would be fine If I did.

you can maybe borrow models and use an actual model as a stand in for your vindicator. Anything with a rhino, or even a Chimera chassis works for this purpose.

or Just ignore them. that works as well.

DeathReaper wrote:you can maybe borrow models and use an actual model as a stand in for your vindicator. Anything with a rhino, or even a Chimera chassis works for this purpose.

or Just ignore them. that works as well.

I cant, they made a rule I cant bring paper models now. what can I do? spend 50$ i dont have/saving for emergencies? I just wanted to use the newest model that didnt even have the rules out yet.

Find a different GW store, or make friends with people and play outside the store?

Those guys are being idiots. Letting people proxy "Box Raiders" is how they sell the real Land Raiders (etc), and a GW employee that doesn't understand that is a GW employee that's not going to be making any sales.

If the GW is the only place you have to play, well, borrow models from other people to proxy until you know what works for you, then slowly start buying it.

Tiger9gamer wrote:I cant, they made a rule I cant bring paper models now.

Who are "They"?

if "They" are the people you are playing then tell them you are going to use the paper model as a counts as so you can see if you like the way the rules are before you buy a model you may not even find useful.

If "They" are the GW staff then there is not much you can do except try to borrow a rhino or chimera from a friend so you can use that as a proxy.

hmmm okay. sorry for the rant, its just im ticked off. and thank you for helping me not feel like an idiot for count as.

It is honestly a smart idea. Models aren't cheap and "test driving" is a good way to not burn money, as others have pointed out here. If it is the staff, make friends with people you meet at the store, and play at home. Right now I have a work in progress table, with only some terrain. It's becoming a tradition to use our knife holder from the kitchen and a bottle of leisure drink as terrain, at least until I finish building and painting. A 4x6 piece of particle board is super cheap, something under 10 bucks. Spray paint it, preferrably with textured paint, and you have a board that looks pretty good without spending a lot.

Hold on. I'm sorry if I'm rude but I can understand where people are coming from with this. I have a few questions;

1. How long have you been doing this? It sounds like it's given you a nickname, so I'm guessing a while?

2. What % of your army is the actual models and what % are proxies?

I've just put together my first 2,000 point army, and I've just started the time consuming task of painting them. I put a lot of work into my models to ensure that battles look as interesting as they are. I would feel pretty put out if my opponent put down a bunch of notecards with things written on them. It also raises obvious issues of line of sight and really complicates the game more than it should be.

How long have you been using the paper models for?

Just curious.

In total three games. Two games testing out a paper vindicator, one testing out a rapier defense platform (which is pretty okay. Blew up an eldar tank first thing) and even if I played one or two games with it, I don't just make all my models papercraft. The rest of my models are regular store bought. I spent time painting them. I just have so few and I keep loseing to people who can trade out things every time I play them that I want to try stuff new. What am I supposed to do? Spend 36 euro on a souped up las cannon that I don't even know is any good? What would I proxy it with?

Plus I spend a good amount of time making the papercraft. I try and make it look good or at least functional. But I am usually forced to throw it away as soon as some guy sees it.

Any GW game is expensive to play and people often resent people who try to do it without using the "proper model" (or at least a GW model) when they have spent the money to do so. Right or wrong, a lot of people will feel that way.

Personally, if you try out a model or two in a game every now and then to see how it works for you... not really a problem to me personally but I can see how others would not be too impressed if you kept on doing it (3 games with a single model in each doesn't sound too bad to me).

The only thing that I can suggest is buying at online discounters, or via ebay (or other such place). Many online retailers will offer 10-20% off RRP (which still makes it expensive, but much cheaper than buying from GW direct, and obviously on ebay you can get things for even cheaper if you are prepared to wait for a good auction). Though I don't recommend pointing out that had the store been more welcoming and accomodating while you were trying to decide which models you were going to buy, you would have bought from the store at full retail, adding to their sales figures

I'd say find a better use for your money than GW stuff. Wait til you have a stable economic base before you worry about buying toys. I don't have a job and hence I have not bought any miniatures yet. That will change when I have money in my pocket.

If those people are such d-bags that they're incapable of accommodating somebody who isn't moneybags McGee, then feth 'em. It's not like they need to have anybody to play with. If they want to make it into a stupid boys club then flip them the bird and walk out.

What I'd suggest if you're looking for something to do is wait til there's a Steam sale and pick up a $10 copy of Dawn of War 40k and be done with it.

Aside from that you need to be focused on getting a job. Essentials come first, then worry about blowing your money on an overpriced luxury good.

i suppose it sets a precedent. if they let you do it next thing you know a bunch of kids will be playing games with pennies as infantry or something.

it is somewhat disrespectful since you're playing on their boards and makes the game look pretty lame to outsiders looking in. its not as bad as trying to use nonGW models tho - that's like taking your own food into a restaurant and expecting to sit in there and eat.

Edit, actually, if you're interested in a cheap way to see which models are effective, consider buying Dawn of War Dark Crusade the videogame and then download and install this mod:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/dawn-of-warhammer-40k-firestorm-over-kronus

It's a closer to Codex adaptation for Dawn of War that makes the units in the game more closely in line with the tabletop mechanics. It also happens to be an awesome game. Cheerio.

Sounds like a cool mod

And OP - if you have another FLGS around that carries different wargames, have you considered starting up something else? For example you can have a fully ready to play 300 point (which is a pretty big game - usually around 10 models, though it can be more or less than that) Infinity force for less than £60 (and the rules are free, though of course you can buy physical copies of the rule books which have the fluff etc in them rather than just the mechanics).

I can see where they are coming from with the whole going to far qith proxys but two other guys also bring home made stuff. A chaos player brings blightdrones and cardboard vindicators to the table Another guy just brings paper cut outs of ovals and says their necrons! X-x I just wanna play fun games there and test out new things and the rapier used las cannons from a razorback on it

Yeah, I would say probably getting a few models, at least a few, and DILIGENTLY painting them (you said you don't have a job so you certainly have the time) up to the artistic standard of the gods might give somebody something to focus on aside from your paper mache. Give them something to appreciate and admire and maybe they'll be a little more appreciative of you.

You could always buy some models on the second hand market (swap shop, ebay, etcetera) or a cheap, cost-effective model pack (add on wargear for extra points-per dollar ratio), paint them beautifully and convert as much as you can. Show some initiative. I think part of it is that the hobby goes beyond just the tactics and people really want to see some beautiful miniatures with a lot of work put into them. I think if you bring something people want to look at they'll be more happy that you're there.

For god's sake just buy a $20 troop pack and spend a week painting them perfectly.

If the other guys can still bring paper armies while there is some kind of rule saying that you cannot, perhaps talk to the manager and if that does not work, talk to someone higher up the GW chain?

SilverMK2 wrote:If the other guys can still bring paper armies while there is some kind of rule saying that you cannot, perhaps talk to the manager and if that does not work, talk to someone higher up the GW chain?

The manager is the one that said that though. And how?


And I do paint models. I try and paint them good. I am juggling school with this too. I need to do a ton of crud for a lot of things, and I want to get a job soon but no one is really hireing in my area.


And I'm worried about my money being stolen at swap shops. And getting crud from eBay.

Tiger9gamer wrote:The manager is the one that said that though. And how?

Check out the GW site and contact customer services, or see if you can get the details for the area manager.

Tiger9gamer wrote:

SilverMK2 wrote:If the other guys can still bring paper armies while there is some kind of rule saying that you cannot, perhaps talk to the manager and if that does not work, talk to someone higher up the GW chain?

The manager is the one that said that though. And how?


And I do paint models. I try and paint them good. I am juggling school with this too. I need to do a ton of crud for a lot of things, and I want to get a job soon but no one is really hireing in my area.


And I'm worried about my money being stolen at swap shops. And getting crud from eBay.

Then dude, focus on school and get a job. This is just a game. In the long run what's important is your financial stability. Once you have a job and you're out of school and you're not in debt, then worry about spending the hundreds of dollars necessary just to get into this hobby.

It's not worth screwing yourself just to get in a social club.

Find some friends that will play practice games with you and use paper models as proxies until you can afford real models.

I agree with the sentiment that your ideal solution would be to play somewhere else. GW are very harsh about counts-as in my experience, let alone paper models. AIUI it's against their managerial rules to let anyone, so the best you'll get from contacting the higher ups would be other people banned from doing so and a manager pissed off at you for putting him under the Inquisitorial gaze.

If the manager is picking and choosing who he applies the 'rules' to...

It sounds like the OP has a nearly completed army, and is trying one or two new models out in a given game.

I wouldn't be overly upset no matter what happens. As others have said school comes first, but that doesn't sound like a problem for you.

It honestly sounds like the other guys are giving you some crap, which is easy to do and not realize that it is really bothering you. Try letting them know that you don't really like it, or point out that you are not the worst in regards to models.

SilverMK2 wrote:If the manager is picking and choosing who he applies the 'rules' to...

Then it's unfair, yes. But I don't see how it would benefit OP's goal (find people to play against) to tell the higher ups. Most likely it would just piss off the manager and other local players.

Squash wrote:
I've just put together my first 2,000 point army, and I've just started the time consuming task of painting them. I put a lot of work into my models to ensure that battles look as interesting as they are. I would feel pretty put out if my opponent put down a bunch of notecards with things written on them. It also raises obvious issues of line of sight and really complicates the game more than it should be.

This is more or less where I stand on this. Spectacle is a big part of the game for me, and playing against card models regularly would put me off a bit. If it was just a game or two to playtest a unit then I wouldn't really mind though. I've used a plastic cup as a drop pod before, but didn't exactly make a habit out of it.

If I were you I would try keeping an eye out for alternate sources of models. Buying stuff new in a GW store can be really pricey. Try scouring eBay or buying from a discounted website, like thewarstore or Maelstrom.

I'd hit up the local Dollar Store and see if they don't have "CheapAss Plastic Tank/Car/Truck/Plane/Whatever" that is roughly the same size as the model you're going to proxy it for. In fact, if it's slightly bigger, you're putting yourself at a bit of a disadvantage with it, but I find that most people mind less if this is the case (they certainly mind it a whole lot more if the model is smaller, as this causes TLOS and template-targeting issues.).

And if they still don't like it? Feth 'em. There's obviously a Warhammer crowd in the area, hit up other comic/gaming stores in the area, see of they have a public "board" on the wall where people can post "Looking For Game" ads. Speaking personally, I've been involved in some pretty kickass Cyberpunk games, and met some great people, through those very things through local comic stores.

Buy used models online; or buy a empty rhino chasis(the warstore and ebay sells them for very cheap) and buy a third party turret(I reccomend old crow miniatures or kromlech)

In order to save money in 40k, you have to make use of ebay and third party companies

alright sorry for the rant before, I shouldnt log onto the forum on a sleepless night at 3am I decided to screw the proxys and just play 100p short for a couple of games and apologies to the store manager. I may be able to ask if I can use a flak cannon as a proxy in a couple of weeks before I try anything again. And thanks for the support/ slapping sense into me too

You could also talk to your opponents about that and see if they can drop 100 points before the game. It's a little annoying, but I've happily cut some fat from my list for a casual game.