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So, I've been an avid player of 40K for almost 2 decades now, but am starting too feel burned out and uninterested in both the game and its hobby aspects. The funny thing is that this has very little to do with rising prices or lame White Dwarf content (which have been constantly on the rise since Andy Chambers left). It mostly has to do with a shift in the underlying attitudes of most of the players I meet and a lack of motivation to paint and purchase new models. Mainly, I think the challenge has been the rise of tournament gaming as the dominant paradigm of my local gaming scene. While I enjoy tournaments and their maxed/spammed out edge, I also feel like it means that I end up playing against the same 3-4 army lists all the time outside of tournament play. The lists are nearly always some variation of Leafblower, Razorspam, Grey Knights (Purifiers, Draigowing, etc), or Venom spam. There are other lists for sure, but my fundamental issue is that players collect tournament armies and nothing else. Meaning, that in order to compete, I need to build armies designed to beat those specific forces. As more of a beer and pretzels gamer who enjoyed the expansions like Battle Missions and Cities of Death, I often have a hard time convincing players to play these kinds of games as they are "unbalanced" or "put my army at a disadvantage." I think what I see as the main problem is that I often view the game as a way to play a certain kind of force, such as half of a battle company of marines or a daemon army with all 4 chaos powers. I like the diversity of games and the fun of playing against armies that players developed on their own. I don't mind losing, I just mind constantly playing against the same few armies over and over again. Secondly, I've just personally gotten burned out on painting and raising armies. To a certain extent, I have already collected 5 40k armies and am not looking to expand my forces much more, but I also feel like the process and time commitment is becoming harder to justify.

I don't know how this is all going to be resolved, but 2012 isn't looking like an inspiring time for the hobby.

I'd rather spend more time outside.

QFT.

I feel in a similar fashion as everything you have said rings true to me and my situation. I've given up on the GT circuit years ago due to the mentality of the game. What I do to combat this fatigue is that I paint a little at a time. Give simple tips on how to save money on this hobby.
Learn from the other professional and incredibly talented artists on how they create their forms of artwork.

Learning is the most important thing that keeps your mind alive. My skills with the hobby (modeling aspect) have declined over the years due to age and injury, but that has not stopped me from improvising and keeping in step with how the pro's do things. Some days I can crank out some really nice things. I continue to learn and adapt to the modeling aspect as well as the general aspect of the hobby.

Take a break from it. Reflect on what is and what is not important about the hobby.

Real life Always comes first, But I do find that after awhile I pick up my tools and start at it again.

Generally speaking with a pint of beer to get things going

I hear you, loud and clear.

For me, the one thing that keep me in it, despite the over-powered codexes , the surgically built unbeatable lists, the price hikes, etc, is my friends. I got a good batch of fellows out here who don't get carried away, who remember this is a game first, a passionate hobby second.

How many posts have I read on Dakka Dakka where one mans interpration of this game is met with slander, offensive commentary and flat out arguementative Rage? These are the types of folk who nearly forced me to pack up my models and give it up. I had no interest in sharing my time and intrest with such blindingly over -competetive and judgemental people. My group out here got me back into it when I moved here, simply through an invitation and good company. I will always enjoy collecting and painting, but I have not always enjoyed playing this game until recently.

And as sure as sure is , I doubt I will ever set forth to play ina tournament or GW shop again, simply because for every decent player I meet, there is an observer or other player who knows everything about everything , has played it all, has never lost, nor has he ever let his opponant get close, and who openly gives you his opinions and critisms without invite and makes me want to pack it all up again and head out the door. Thank God for good friends.

I'm suffering from overall GW fatigue. Many of their recent releases have left me cold, though I can't really put my finger on why. It might be due to one or a combination of the following factors...

1. I'm 35 and might be getting too old for this sci-fi / fantasy lark

2. As I've remarked on a number of occasions, GW appear to have entered what I call their "Michael Bay" phase when it comes to the background...

3. ...and this has been reflected in their releases, particularly Fantasy which has seen some daft OTT stuff over the last year (e.g. Storm of Magic, Coven Throne)

4. Army releases are no longer "Army" releases i.e. very little new infantry stuff comes out with army updates these days (except Necrons perhaps), it's all about the BIG kits.

5. GW seemed to have all but stopped talking about the games in order to focus on shifting plastic. Even the admittedly not particularly inspiring battle reps have disappeared from WD now.

I recall a conversation with someone who fancied himself as a tournament player. He had just bought a new army, that had only been released a week or so previously, He told me things like, 'such and such a unit does this against such and such a unit' and 'this is the best unit in such and such situation.'

I asked him how he knew. He said he had read it on the internet.

The army was up for sale a few weeks later - as apparently it didn't do what he claimed.

I have long since stopped playing games against him, as in every game we played he cheated.

It's no skin off my nose as there are plenty of people to play who are fun and friendly, and willing to try new things. Just find people you want to play with, and if that means branching out into other games and systems then so be it.

Power creep. GW are there own worst enemy.
Try a smaller skirmish game can guarantee youll get something more than what gw offer

You could always do what my group did when we started to get burnt out on the power creep and mono list driven aspect of the game.

Go back to an earlier edition. We play 2nd[40K] and 6th[Fantasy] now.

2nd is brilliant with a couple house rules to tone down some of the broken wargear/strategy cards.

We feel both of those editions were the last time GW was making systems more about gaming than model sales.

This seems like a problem with your local meta more than anything else. I can understand how you could get tired of a game after 20 years though; that's a long time to keep on!

If I were you I would try and find some likeminded beer and pretzels type of gamers in your area, either through your FLGS or Dakka's "find a game" section. I got put off 40k a bit at an old club I gamed at where opponents would look at my army list before the game then build a tailored list on the spot to wreck me. I've since found a really casual beer and pretzels group (literally, we game in a space over a bar) and I've never been happier with the game, or gaming in general.

Also, it might serve you well to try a different system for a while. You've been playing 40k for 20 years, it might do you well to either try a different way to play (such as the excellent Killzone skirmish rules) or try a new game altogether for a while. No matter what you do, don't sell your old stuff as you've probably put just as much blood, sweat, and tears into them as any of us have put into our own armies. Hold onto it and try something new for a while, and that way if you want to come back or use the models for a different game, you can.

40k has certainly changed over time. It's gone from a RPG that involved miniatures to a much more well-oiled carefully balanced strategy game proper.

In the past, you didn't have competitive 40k gamers because it was practically impossible to play 40k games competitively. Things changed constantly, and there were very few universal and standardized rules. Now that you CAN play 40k competitively, thanks to a better balanced, MUCH more streamlined rules system, you're starting to get more competitive gamers.

If what you want is a game where you can paint stuff and play with them, then yeah, 40k is less and less for you anymore.

I've always advocated playing multiple different wargames from all the great non-GW companies out there. Play some spaceship gaming, or historical battles, or wild-west shootouts, or small-gang style wargaming. Diversity helps with burnout, as when you get tired of one system, you'll likely be into another system strongly again.

Furthermore, by being in a club that has a number of different systems on the go, I've found most of the players lose any sort of WAAC attitude. A number of wargames I've played either don't have point values (purely scenario based wargaming), or are loose enough that you're still more focused on putting beautiful models on a beautiful table with great scenery in order to fight out an epic themed clash of whatever it is you're playing.

I've never been too impressed with many gamers I've seen at GW shops, many of them having only played 40k. There's something about the game that almost leads to believe they must have a strict rule set with strict point values on a pre-determined scenario. It kills the imagination and creativity in creating new scenarios, or just playing because you both have beautiful armies.

On the flip-side, a healthy dose of competition and playing against players who are fighting for the win will help keep the interest, as it forces you to become a better gamer as well. Just so long as either side doesn't degenerate into a rule bending WAAC attitude.

^What he said.

I've never been a one-game or even one-manufacturer gamer.

I've always played something else and a GW game.

Whether it was Battletech and 40k, Warmachine and 40k, Kryomek and 40k, Stargrunt and 40k, Void and 40k or (currently) Infinity and Tomorrow's War (I'm working on a WHFB army, but it isn't ready for play yet).

My club which used to be a 40k club creche (it was run bye the mother of one of the boys) is now an Infinity/WHFB club.

Switch to WHFB.

Most armies are evenly balanced.... Special characters do not shut down whole armies etc...

Overall most WHFB are older and dont get erections seeing guys in Power armour...

You'll most likely be astounded at how different WHFB is to 40k and why it took you so long to "Discover" that GW still do actually know how to make a good TT game. Just not the most popular one.

You could always do what my group did when we started to get burnt out on the power creep and mono list driven aspect of the game.

Go back to an earlier edition. We play 2nd[40K] and 6th[Fantasy] now.

2nd is brilliant with a couple house rules to tone down some of the broken wargear/strategy cards.

We feel both of those editions were the last time GW was making systems more about gaming than model sales.

My buddy and I are doing this. We found that 5th edition is where most of our fatigue is stemming from, with it's tournament lists and ever more over-the-top armies, and just the general mentality of the current gamers.

So we are capping it at 4th edition, but with alot of 3rd edition thrown in. For example, VDR rules, Cursed Founding Chapters, Deathwatch Squads for our marine armies, etc. If a new and awesome model comes out (like the Stormraven, or DE Razorwing), we simply agree on an acceptable VDR entry for it, and then have fun.

Currently I am also compiling what I can to play small games of 2nd edition. I used to play it back when I first got into the game, and loved it. I have tons of vehicle datafax cards, and I am getting more of the codexes and the three base books from the boxed set from online.

AegisGrimm wrote:
My buddy and I are doing this. We found that 5th edition is where most of our fatigue is stemming from, with it's tournament lists and ever more over-the-top armies, and just the general mentality of the current gamers.

So we are capping it at 4th edition, but with alot of 3rd edition thrown in. For example, VDR rules, Cursed Founding Chapters, Deathwatch Squads for our marine armies, etc. If a new and awesome model comes out (like the Stormraven, or DE Razorwing), we simply agree on an acceptable VDR entry for it, and then have fun.

Currently I am also compiling what I can to play small games of 2nd edition. I used to play it back when I first got into the game, and loved it. I have tons of vehicle datafax cards, and I am getting more of the codexes and the three base books from the boxed set from online.

Personally I don't think 5th ed is the big problem. The rules are overall significantly more refined than 4th, and generally make more sense. I think the best thing would be 5th ed rules, 4th ed missions and objectives, and all that wacky 3rd/4th ed Chapter Approved stuff like VDR and Deathwatch and such.

Flashman wrote:I'm suffering from overall GW fatigue. Many of their recent releases have left me cold, though I can't really put my finger on why. It might be due to one or a combination of the following factors...

1. I'm 35 and might be getting too old for this sci-fi / fantasy lark

2. As I've remarked on a number of occasions, GW appear to have entered what I call their "Michael Bay" phase when it comes to the background...

3. ...and this has been reflected in their releases, particularly Fantasy which has seen some daft OTT stuff over the last year (e.g. Storm of Magic, Coven Throne)

4. Army releases are no longer "Army" releases i.e. very little new infantry stuff comes out with army updates these days (except Necrons perhaps), it's all about the BIG kits.

5. GW seemed to have all but stopped talking about the games in order to focus on shifting plastic. Even the admittedly not particularly inspiring battle reps have disappeared from WD now.

I'm 43. I started playing 40k back in 1987-88 with RT. With people my own age. I sat out most of 2nd ed (this was my clubbing and boozing and chasing tail phase) and returned for 3rd ed.
I'm tired of the current state of the game again - and since the new edition is due this year, I will sit out the duration of 5th and 6th. I now use Infinity for my SF fix. My club used to be a bunch of schoolkids playing 40k. Now it's the same bunch of kids, 7 years later (now all over 18) playing fantasy and infinity.

WD hasn't been a good read for over 10 years here. Its heyday was the pre-100s issues. It was ok up until the mid 200s. When they removed the last of the local content from it, it stopped being worth getting (This coincided with the dark times, when GW took our Dave Taylor away. Sure, he might have benefited you other countries where he got flung to, but the loss was felt).

Haha, something like this happened to me with world of warcraft

Personally, it just feels to me that 40K has become very heavily a tournament game, rather than a "for fun" game. I get a feel from the playerbase lately(not all of them, of course) that is very clinical, and I get that from GW too.

Back in 3rd/4th editions, every month's White Dwarf would have cool Chapter Approved unit entries that added a fun and creative element to the game. Heck, they ended up publishing three Chapter Approved volumes!

Now, I get that feel that I am an oddball because I didn't make an army from the latest few "winning" Codex armies, and constantly run certain builds. I ask about playing certain unit that I don't see anyone mention often, and I always get the same look of disgust and the same statement along the lines of "Ugh, why would you play that unit? They're so completely under-powered to even waste time with".

I guess i could look at the 5th edition rules, but I keep wanting the "feel" of my 3rd Ed. gaming and internet-discussions back.

Its good to hear that others are feeling the same way, for what that is worth.

As some have suggested, I've been playing other games such as Battlefleet Gothic and Flames of War, and have enjoyed introducing some new players to those games. I think what I enjoy about that process is that it puts people back in a situation in which they are just learning about the game again, and therefore are more open to just trying out different things.

What I miss is that 40K pickup games are so easy to come by, making it easy to indulge in when I have a bit of time. The gamers I know who play other systems are harder to wrangle for a game than just stopping by the FLGS on game night and seeing who is around Given the fact that new responsibilities (baby #2 on the way) and accelerating career prospects take up more of my time, I find it very hard to devote the mental energy to the game that I once did. I think that taking a break and focusing on other priorities is a good idea.

The other interesting topic of discussion in this thread has been edition preferences. I came into the game during 2nd Ed and loved it as a 12 year old. I still remember all those games fondly. It took forever, but also had that cinematic quality that really was embodied in the missions of 3rd/4th Edition. I feel like 5th edition was a real improvement from a rules and play perspective, but I feel like the 3x3 mission system stifles creativity in establishing the game setting. I always loved playing raids and breakouts from the old rulebook and they still work great under 5th ed rules. What seems to have changed is the player attitudes, particularly among many of the younger players I encounter. I hope that 6th edition reinvigorates my interest in the game and I am also exctied that Chaos and Dark Angels will be getting some love soon. So I guess we will see.

Honestly, when I start feel fatigued, I switch armies. I probably wont play my BA for the rest of 5th and right now I am working on my Guard.

When I feel the fatigue, I step back for a break. Usually takes a few days, then I am right back in.

Samwise158 wrote:Another big ol' post

I'm glad you're playing the old missions in the new rules - the 3x3 grid is very limiting, and lacks a lot of the thematic quality of the 3rd and 4th ed codices. Remember in 3rd when every codex would have a mission in the back? That was cool stuff!

I can see a lot of the shift in younger players coming through the resources online. There have always been competitive and WAAC players, but now a new player can check in online and see the most vocal players going on about what's best, what's overpowered, what's underpowered, and so on. They can follow that example pretty easily and adapt that mindset as their own. I grew up gaming with a bunch of historical grognards who played game systems without points values in huge scenarios that were just played for the fun of the game and the spectacle of the battle. It's a different environment to game in and I'm glad it's where I got my start.

OP I totally feel your pain. A few years ago GW closed our local Bunker after about 15 years. It nuked our local veteran community. People scattered to smaller GW’s and independent games stores or just left the hobby. Since then I really can’t stand going to a store to play. I was at my local GW the other day to play a game. Out of about 16 people there I was the only one with a fully painted army. It is really annoying to but so much time into painting to square off against some bodies sea of grey and primer every time. The guy I played against out of a 2000 point list about half of his army was proxied, and all of it unpainted. I don’t have a problem with “count as” armies but I really hate seeing all of the proxy armies that go on. It is one thing if you are just trying out something new among friends but when you see people playing strangers going “the green primed guards men are special weapons” the “empty bases are jekaro” the “bases with legs are purifiers” And it’s all so people can play the newest list they read on the internet. It almost takes longer for people to explain their proxies then it does to play the game.

I defiantly think the current tournament mentality, at least in the US, combined with the fact that nobody paints anything anymore really brings down the game for me. To me in the old days part of the fun of playing at the local store was looking at all of the armies out on the tables and never knowing what you were going to face. Now it is the same 4-5 list people found on the internet that is only primed or proxies. Defiantly a disappointing change to how things used to be.

Samwise158 wrote:So, I've been an avid player of 40K for almost 2 decades now, but am starting too feel burned out and uninterested in both the game and its hobby aspects. The funny thing is that this has very little to do with rising prices or lame White Dwarf content (which have been constantly on the rise since Andy Chambers left). It mostly has to do with a shift in the underlying attitudes of most of the players I meet and a lack of motivation to paint and purchase new models. Mainly, I think the challenge has been the rise of tournament gaming as the dominant paradigm of my local gaming scene. While I enjoy tournaments and their maxed/spammed out edge, I also feel like it means that I end up playing against the same 3-4 army lists all the time outside of tournament play. The lists are nearly always some variation of Leafblower, Razorspam, Grey Knights (Purifiers, Draigowing, etc), or Venom spam. There are other lists for sure, but my fundamental issue is that players collect tournament armies and nothing else. Meaning, that in order to compete, I need to build armies designed to beat those specific forces. As more of a beer and pretzels gamer who enjoyed the expansions like Battle Missions and Cities of Death, I often have a hard time convincing players to play these kinds of games as they are "unbalanced" or "put my army at a disadvantage." I think what I see as the main problem is that I often view the game as a way to play a certain kind of force, such as half of a battle company of marines or a daemon army with all 4 chaos powers. I like the diversity of games and the fun of playing against armies that players developed on their own. I don't mind losing, I just mind constantly playing against the same few armies over and over again. Secondly, I've just personally gotten burned out on painting and raising armies. To a certain extent, I have already collected 5 40k armies and am not looking to expand my forces much more, but I also feel like the process and time commitment is becoming harder to justify.

I don't know how this is all going to be resolved, but 2012 isn't looking like an inspiring time for the hobby.

I'd rather spend more time outside.

Well then put your toy soldiers away, get a hobby in the fresh air and go enjoy it. If you aren't happy the way things are going now then by all means change it for yourself. You could also work on putting together your own gaming group that has a different table top focus than tournements. I definitely hear you. I want to play a fun and enjoyable game, win or lose, when I sit at the table, but it stops being fun if every army you face is one of a few incarnations of a couple armies. It gets dull and is not much fun anymore. It is hard to justify all the work in building and painting an army if you don't actually want to play because it isn't fun anymore. I am tried of fighting the 40k rules more than my opponents of late.

You have a couple options and sticking with the stauts quo isn't one:

1) Trying and gather a like minded group of friends who just want to play fun games and don't care about tournements. That can help bring the fun back. I play little at stores anymore because I get tired of the insanity of some newer 40k players.
2) Try out a new game, like Flames of War if you like World War II or Warmachine or Malifaux. Each require much smaller cash investments than a 40k army, the rules are better written have far fewer arguements.
3) Put away the 40k minis and take a break for a while. Nothing says you have to keep on keeping on if it doesn't work for you anymore. Go out and start biking, jogging or hiking. Get a tan. Breath some fresh air.

Status quo is the only thing that doesn't make sense at this juncture. Something needs to change for you to be happy again, either in the hobby you have, a slightly tangential one or even a completely different one.

Skriker



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Flashman wrote:I'm suffering from overall GW fatigue. Many of their recent releases have left me cold, though I can't really put my finger on why. It might be due to one or a combination of the following factors...

1. I'm 35 and might be getting too old for this sci-fi / fantasy lark
.

Just like to point out that age really has no bearing on this unless someone is giving your grief that you are "too old" to play with toy soldiers. I know gamers from about 9 through their 60s. They all share a passion for gaming. Doesn't matter how old they are.

Skriker