Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just want to get everyones opinion on what needs to be changed in the eldar codex in the next update.

Stuff needs to be cheaper. That's all really. New models for some of the stuff.

And they need better psy powers than grey knights have. If not, matt ward will go to hell.

Eldar should be the best Psykers in the game, or at least be on par with Grey Knights. Prices need to be brought down on a lot of units to bring them in line with Dark Eldar, and Guardians should get the same Shuriken Catapults that Dire Avengers get, but without the BS4 or Bladestorm. Most things need a price decrease, especially Dark Reapers and Striking Scorpions. The Heavy Support slot needs to be less crowded, and more competitive options should be in Fast Attack. Autarchs should also be viable, as right now they compete with Farseers and Eldrad in particular, who are far and away more useful.

New models are needed for Jetbikes, Swooping Hawks and Warp Spiders, and would be appreciated greatly for Phoenix Lords, Vypers, and The Avatar. Some kind of aircraft is all but guaranteed to be in there as well. Personally I'd also like to see some Aspect Warriors in plastic, as many of them share similar torsos and it would just be heads and weapons getting swapped out. By this I chiefly mean Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, Swooping Hawks and Striking Scorpions all have similar central torsos, and with some different backpacks and bits (after a slight redesign of each) could very easily be made interchangeable.

Also, it must be written by Phil Kelly and the models must be done by Jes Goodwin. Eldar of all kinds are their beautiful babies.

Not an Eldar player but would like to see the reintroduction of the Exodites.

A Phoenix Lord for the Spears would be cool as well, resculpts for all the Phoenix Lords would also be impressive (and long overdue).

This guy:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Eldar/ELDAR-WRAITHSEER.html

1. points costs lowered almost across the board to start.

2. Serious look needs to be taken on Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears to see if they can't be made, if not a great unit at least ones that most people don't automatically avoid.

3. star cannon need to be made 3 shots again and both their and brightlances need points adjustments down. There is no reason the SL should be the automatic weapon of choice.

4. Wraithseer! Wraithseer! Also Warphunter for sure. Firestorm at greatly reduced price, especially if flyers are going to take on a larger role would be nice and I'd love to see spectres and wasps. Honestly, Forgeworlds stuff is pretty exciting so I'd love to see it as codex. I also wouldn't mind seeing a Lessor and Greater Avatar to fit the FW model.

5. I floated an idea in another thread for a smaller scale storm serpent based on a WS hull to allow deployement of wraithguard, avatar etc from a mobile wraithgate. Someone in another thread said that eldar have lost their place in the game. I think thats true. just about everyone has speed now in various ways, eldars speed isn't anything special anymore. Mobile wraithgates would open whole new dimensions for tactics. I hate seeing an absolute reliance on a few key units repeated over and over, but right now a good chunk of the list just isn't fieldable in most armies. I'd love to see more people fielding an Avatar, Banshees or wraithguard in viable hybrid lists, but the only way that will happen is if they can get them down field.

6.Bring back individual Craftworld rules.

7. Depending on how the 6th edition rules work out, adjust pathfinders and rangers.

8.Autarchs also need a revamp.

9. harlequin revamp and maybe options to take a corsairs?

In general I just feel eldar need to be faster, a little cheaper and hit just a little harder. My biggest frustration is that the most specialized and diverse unit type army is shoehorned into a very narrow type of lists to be considered competitive. I loved having the craftworld lists and I desperately want to see them brought back.

resculpts:
Phoenix Lords
Jet Bikes/shining spears
Plastic flyers and Wraithguard
scorpions

I want to see guardians retconned out. They don't make sense.

"Oh hai, we're a dying race with incredibly advanced technology, but we clad our chefs and poets in papier mâché, issue them 20th-century crossbows and send them onto the field en masse as cannon fodder."

Eldar should be the best Psykers in the game, or at least be on par with Grey Knights.

Grey knights needs to be third, with Eldar second and Tzeentch Chaos Daemons/sorcerers first.

Aspects need to be worth taking, as it is dire avengers are upgrades for vehicles, banshee's are meh, dark reapers are laughed at, fire dragons are the only threat because they lucked out that they don't need skill at all, and are based around having meltaguns, if you pull out the swooping hawks you are hoping your enemy dies of a heart attack, striking scorpions are okay, rangers are overpriced, shining spears cost so much that it's near impossible to have an army with them if you want a decent sized force..

The phoenix lords are way to expensive and with rules that at best are only "passable"

"Oh hai, we're a dying race with incredibly advanced technology, but we clad our chefs and poets in papier mâché, issue them 20th-century crossbows and send them onto the field en masse as cannon fodder."

It was a major nerfage from the 2nd edition to third, because guardians had the most overpowered weapon in the game, the same shuriken cannon was Death Incarnate for everything.

And as the 4th edition books were just, at best bandaids or some "advances" (Except for the whole eldar Tri-Falcon that is comparable to GK today) So they didn't gain much.

I think that Tzeench Sorcerers do need to be alongside Eldar.

I'd honestly put the rankings at:

Pure power available:
1) Tzeench
2) GK
3) Eldar (but pretty much equal to GK)
... everyone else

Refined power available:
1) Tzeench
2) Eldar
3) GK

Psychic Technology (Runes of Warding / Force Weapons / the Aegis):
1) Eldar
2) GK
3) Tzeench

Personally, basically everything I feel needs changing has been included in my Eldar Fandex.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/413804.page

TheMostSlyFox wrote:Dave: Thank you for making codices that should bring out what so many other's fail to do: Make EVERY unit in the codex worth taking! I can't explain how much more fun, in depth, and in general 'Eldar-y' this fandex is, it makes me squee! ^^

I don't think they need to be cheaper they need to be better at what they do. They are supposed to be an army of elite fighting squads. Also they need sweet psychic stuff.

I dunno what really needs to be changed. I just got the current Eldar codex last night (getting back into 40K), and I breathe a sigh of relief over the old 3rd edition codex, which was the last time I played Eldar. Lots of Eldar players should have used that one, if they think this current one sucks. I think Eldar are currently bad simply because of what OP armies they are going up against, not because their codex sucks.

As it is for points costs, Jetbikes are 13 points cheaper, Vypers are 5pts cheaper, Shining Spears are 15pts cheaper and their lances are better (plus they can have a shuriken cannon), a Falcon dropped 5pts, Dark reapers went down, the Autarch came in as an HQ troop type, etc.

I personally would just like some new models. Plastic Wraithguard would be nice, as I would like to buy a squad of models that are less than 15 dollars apiece. Sadly, I'll bet all GW does is make them Finecast, and then raise the price 5 dollars. they are the only Elites to not be Finecast... yet.

As for some other knowledge.....as a players coming back to the game, where do you get the rules for the Shadow Weaver that the Fire Prism kit can make? It's not in the codex.

Their points need to be rounded off, having to pay 12 points for a sergeant equivilant instead of 10 or 15 just messes with your army list.

Swooping Hawks need a buff, as do Shining Spears in my opinion, Eldar are supposed to be a fast army. They need some good fast attack choices.

I think their overall power is fine, it's just that current armies are getting tougher and tougher to actually lose with. Or at least easier to spam with. All the new stuff coming out has a plethora of gimmicks to throw on the table.

AegisGrimm wrote:I dunno what really needs to be changed. I just got the current Eldar codex last night (getting back into 40K), and I breathe a sigh of relief over the old 3rd edition codex, which was the last time I played Eldar. Lots of Eldar players should have used that one, if they think this current one sucks. I think Eldar are currently bad simply because of what OP armies they are going up against, not because their codex sucks.

As for some other knowledge.....as a players coming back to the game, where do you get the rules for the Shadow Weaver that the Fire Prism kit can make? It's not in the codex.

As to your first point, it's pretty much totally correct. It's not so much that only recent armies are overpowered or what have you, it's that the overall power curve of the game raised since the Eldar codex came out. It started shortly after with the Ork codex and 6 point Ork Boyz (still a bargain) and kept going all the way up to now, with a few stumbles like Codex: Daemons. The Eldar codex is pretty decent, it's just balanced for a different time and place.

As to your second point, that's the Night Spinner. You can download the rules on GW's website, right here

Brother SRM wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote:I dunno what really needs to be changed. I just got the current Eldar codex last night (getting back into 40K), and I breathe a sigh of relief over the old 3rd edition codex, which was the last time I played Eldar. Lots of Eldar players should have used that one, if they think this current one sucks. I think Eldar are currently bad simply because of what OP armies they are going up against, not because their codex sucks.

As for some other knowledge.....as a players coming back to the game, where do you get the rules for the Shadow Weaver that the Fire Prism kit can make? It's not in the codex.

As to your first point, it's pretty much totally correct. It's not so much that only recent armies are overpowered or what have you, it's that the overall power curve of the game raised since the Eldar codex came out. It started shortly after with the Ork codex and 6 point Ork Boyz (still a bargain) and kept going all the way up to now, with a few stumbles like Codex: Daemons. The Eldar codex is pretty decent, it's just balanced for a different time and place.

Even if that is true however - which I don't believe it entirely is - there are still serious internal balance issues within the Eldar Codex, with certain units being clearly weak (Hawks, Spears, Guardians etc.) and others clearly very good (Eldrad, Dragons, Prisms etc.).

Personally, this is what I have changed within my Fandex, as this is what I feel should be changed:

Eldar as a race are now more agile and better at hit and run attacks. Furthermore, they may now enter play via Webway Portals (works differently to DE's), providing even more options.

Phoenix Lords for Shining Spears and Swooping Hawks added.

Additional psychic powers and more psychic manipulation via. runes for Farseers. Come with psychic powers as standard and can selected any more, akin to Grey Knights.Bonesingers and Battleseers are now options too.

Autarchs now have access to more wargear and act as force multipliers and customisers, incorporating Craftworld rules within them to make them more viable compared to Farseers.

The Avatar is on a power level pretty much equal to Mephiston, the Swarmlord, Abbadon and other big-hitters within the game, whilst no longer relying on Fortune for protection.

Warlocks are individually more powerful and powers come as standard, alongside more customisation via runes also, whilst Warseers and Spiritseers are options.

Wraithcannons/D-Cannons are now AP1 and the former is 18". Wraithguard also no longer need Fortune. Iranna from Iyanden is now an option too.

Harlequins hit harder and are more durable through better avoiding incoming attacks. This also makes Shadowseers less mandatory. Oh, Solitaires are there too, basically operating like Assassins.

All aspect units hit harder - minus Fire Dragons, they hit hard enough - and come with Exarchs as standard (making them less suitable as suicide-units), but fit more with their specialisation:

- Scorpions are better infiltrators, at hugging cover and performing assassination-like attacks, whilst remaining best at anti-infantry.
- Banshees are better against MeQ but no better against standard infantry, whilst move faster.
- Dire Avengers negate cover saves somewhat, can work in CC and operate equally well on the offence as they do defence.
- Warp Spiders are better for hit and run and have increased damage output against infantry, but not tanks.
- Shining Spears hit harder and are particularly nasty against heavy infantry and creatures, and even tanks. However, they suffer in protracted assaults and when fighting large numbers.
- Swooping Hawks are real hit and run pro's and are now specialised against MeQ, but are fragile as ever.
- Dark Reapers negate cover saves somewhat and are now able to take out light-tanks.
- A new aspect, the Sundering Sentinels, has been included to operate as ranged, defensive and tough anti-infantry specialists.

The Shuriken Catapult has been improved and Guardians cheapened, with improved Warlocks and other changes, these guys work best as flexible support.

Vypers can hit and run via a Crystal Targetting Matrix, as well as having better priced weapons.

A new vehicle, the Asp, has been included to operate in a role between Vypers and Prisms and provide rapid support and redeployment of heavy weapons.

Support Weapons are tougher, cheaper and better, as well as having a new weapon.

Falcons specialise in deliverance; of death and transported units. But are pricer.

Prisms are more reliable. But are pricier.

Night Spinners included.

Wraithlords are tougher, have more options but are more expensive.

War Walkers remain a Heavy Support choice as they would otherwise compete too much with Vypers.

Yeah, these are basically the changes I feel need to be made and have been made within my Fandex.

Eldar need transports around the 30-50 pt range. Assault ramps would be nice. Farseers are fine. Autarchs could be buffed, but I have no clue as to what would make them worth taking. Phoenix Lords are currently priced stupidly.

It would be nice to have better guns for Guardians (the most advanced race in the universe has a gun inferior to a boltgun?)

They also need a box of 3 new jetbikes (at least with current riders.)

Radical_Edward wrote:Eldar need transports around the 30-50 pt range. Assault ramps would be nice. Farseers are fine. Autarchs could be buffed, but I have no clue as to what would make them worth taking. Phoenix Lords are currently priced stupidly.

So venoms?

-Everything needs to come down in points

-Force Org needs reshuffling (Heavy Support and Elites are kinda busy, Fast not so much, Troops would be busy if more units were viable...). Personally, I'd like to see Swooping Hawks and Striking Scorpions (or Howling Banshees?( moved to Troops, this gives them less competition with Banshees/Warp Spiders which pretty much have the same role but do it better/more efficiently. I think Warwalkers should be moved to fast as well.

-Add a new aspect warrior unit specializing in ranged anti-tank (by which I mean long range ala shadow specters, not close up with melta weapons) or give the dark reapers dual profile weapons (may choose to fire current profile or higher strength lower ap profile, this will make them more effective vs. monstrous creatures as well as giving them capability vs light vehicles).

-Phoenix Lords, would love to see these become unit character upgrades, but given Drazhar is an HQ choice in the Dark Eldar book, I doubt this will happen. Alternatively, if they do remain HQ, I would love to see them alter force org or some such, but given that Drazhar doesn't do this either, I doubt it.

-More special characters that alter force org chart (return of Nuadhu Fireheart which brings guardian jetbikes from fast to troops for example) or Farseer Iranna which brings Wraithguard to troops, etc.

-Autarchs should be able to buy exarch powers

-Wouldnt mind shuriken weapon getting rending (monofilament/monomolecular weapons being what they are, etc. be a nice counterpoint to DE army wide poison)

-Webway Portals, I'd like to see them included as a separate HQ choice that doesn't take up a force org slot. You can buy 0-3 small ones (infantry only) or one large one (infantry and vehicles) , they are immobile structures with infiltrate and are put on the table during army deployment. Naturally being Eldar they have all sorts of funky defensive rules that makes it really difficult to destroy them, but otherwise function like the Dark Eldar Webway portal. This represents the fact that while the dark eldar are raiders and will create their own opportunity to attack, while the eldar are more defensive in nature and will usually engage on planets that they have visited in the past.

-20 man guardian units can take an attached heavy support weapon/battery (deployed seperately)

As to your second point, that's the Night Spinner. You can download the rules on GW's website, right here

Thanks for that! I am planning on making swappable weapons from the kit, so I really wanted the other choice's rules.

----------------

The points for Eldar should not just go down across the board. Because after awhile they might as well be free. Every codex that comes out to replace a previous one drops the points, and I hate it. The points are largely irrelevant if all the races are balanced against each other.

It's the same way with army-wide "improvements" to weapons, stats and armor. it just furthers the "OP arms race" of codex creep. New books should add more useful options, not just raw power to help them win.

It would be cool to see Autarchs be able to buy exarch powers, although this goes against their fluff. They aren't Exarchs, just Eldar who have fought as multiple aspect paths. Their training as a Swooping Hawk, for instance, is the same as any other Swooping Hawk. Their advanced training is in battle tactics and leadership, so they should get a further bonus to that, if any. I would say at the most, give them access to more Aspect weapons.

As for Special Characters, unless the 3rd Ed. Craftworld Eldar codex changed them (I only have the standard 3rd Ed. Eldar codex), they could just be modified versions of those found in Codex: Eldar (3rd edition).

-Nuadhu Fireheart would stay the same as he was, just drop the points by 5 down to 70 points, because that's what Vypers dropped by.

-Iyanna Arienal was a 75pt. Spiritseer with a special Singing Spear, the Armor of Vaul, and the Destructor and Enhance powers. I would say just use her old profile and cost. The extra range of the Spear and her special Armor is only 16pts higher than what you could make a normal Warlock into already. (the only break is that warlocks can only take one power, not two.)

War-walkers should indeed be Fast Attack.

With the exception of the above, all their unit options should stay the way they are. Nothing is too "busy".

You an argue that its bad to drop points on units because it leads to codex creep, but at this point you would be wrong. If the eldar don't receive a points cut on almost everything, they are going to be woefully underpowered compared to the competition. Really, i dont find very much in any of the books to overpowered, only certain builds, but these builds take advantage of poor writing/loopholes in the core rulebook rather than being due to issues with the codecies themselves.

Well, to each their own, but if the more modern codex armies and their choices didn't function better for their particular price(s) than them, the Eldar would never need a points cost decrease.

It's not how cheap the low-powered things should be, but how expensive the good things should be. Otherwise, you eventually end up with things having to be damn near free to "justify their lack of power". Making "good" things cost more is the same function as having "bad" things cost less, but is better game-balance, simply because you can always go "up" more than "down".

If, (for a random example) an Eldar jetbike was more low-powered for it's points compared to a marine bike for it's individual price, then that means the Marine bike should cost more.

Shuriken stuff needs a redesign, mostly the cannon. The big 5 eldar heavy weapons that just about everything can pick from all need to feel very unique and play to different purposes. It shouldn't be that a bright lance or scatter laser is just what you upgrade a missile launcher or shuriken cannon into when you have the points. If regular catapults and pistols stay short range assault focused we need more than 1 dedicated transport option because footslogging is an impossible suicide task with such equipment and stats.

A lot of weird screwball wargear needs altering to be viable or removed. Chainsabres, diresword, dark reaper shuriken cannon (i know it's for the older exarch model but comon, no one took them even back then), etc.

PSYCHIC STUFF. It's the race that is dedicated to being psychic, these guys can't run hot water without flexing their frontal lobes. Psychic exarch powers, psychic vehicle upgrades, leadership modifiers and interactions out the wazoo, psychic passive armywide effects like precognition saves vs shooting or something, I should be rolling psychic checks every phase of the game.

- War Walkers moves to Fast Attack. Generally, Heavy Support needs less crowding.

- More psychic powers, and better ones aswell. Eldar psykers should make the Grey Knights look like babies.

- Better Warlocks. Give them better powers and 2 wounds perhaps?

- Shuriken Catapults should have 18" range (Avenger Catapults 24").

- Guardians should have a 4+ armour save, and more options. Suggestions: Weapons Platform optional, upgrade to BS 4, special weapons, a shield ala DoW2.

- Some special rules for Shuriken weaponry. Right now they are just boring assault bolters. Make them rending/re-roll successful armour saves/ is AP 1. Anything.

- Give Wraithcannons longer range, and give the Wraithguard themselves close-combat options. Like some kind of huge sword/axe/glaive that make them hit like MCs in melee would be awesome.

- Give Harlequins an innate Rending.

- Make the Deathspinner a flamer template, or at least Rending. All monofilament weapons should have Rending, right now only some of them do.

- General reduction in points cost.

Some models should get plastic resculpts aswell:
Guardian Jetbikes
Shining Spears
Warp Spiders
Wraithguard
Harlequins
The Avatar of Khaine

And, as with all codex releases, add new units and tweak some of the old ones.

Actinium wrote:PSYCHIC STUFF. It's the race that is dedicated to being psychic, these guys can't run hot water without flexing their frontal lobes. Psychic exarch powers, psychic vehicle upgrades, leadership modifiers and interactions out the wazoo, psychic passive armywide effects like precognition saves vs shooting or something, I should be rolling psychic checks every phase of the game.

While I agree that having lots of new Psychic stuff for the Eldar would be nice I'm not sure that it would sit too well with some of the fluff. Yes the Eldar are inherantly psychic based but Eldar in themselves choose to follow a path and dedicate themselves to it. For an Exarch to be using lots of psychic powers doesn't make any sense, they have become trapped in the path of the warrior, and so many may not have ventured upon the path of the seer and even those that have would have had their ability to access and use psychic powers in battle 'go rusty' so to speak.

Rampage wrote:

Actinium wrote:PSYCHIC STUFF. It's the race that is dedicated to being psychic, these guys can't run hot water without flexing their frontal lobes. Psychic exarch powers, psychic vehicle upgrades, leadership modifiers and interactions out the wazoo, psychic passive armywide effects like precognition saves vs shooting or something, I should be rolling psychic checks every phase of the game.

While I agree that having lots of new Psychic stuff for the Eldar would be nice I'm not sure that it would sit too well with some of the fluff. Yes the Eldar are inherantly psychic based but Eldar in themselves choose to follow a path and dedicate themselves to it. For an Exarch to be using lots of psychic powers doesn't make any sense, they have become trapped in the path of the warrior, and so many may not have ventured upon the path of the seer and even those that have would have had their ability to access and use psychic powers in battle 'go rusty' so to speak.

Psychic Exarch abilities would go against the fluff, they do fight with perfection.

Though that doesn't mean they can't use some of the nifty gear that comes with them. Dire avengers have targetters yet are still BS4 as the rest of the army.

I would really like to see Storm Guardians get some better treatment, maybe bump their WS to 4 and better special weapons, and possibly include a Warlock as a Sergeant Upgrade with some abilities that could grant Hit and Run, Embolden, and maybe Furious Charge?

I almost got an Eldar army until I saw the abysmal troop choices.

The path of the seer is just about developing your precognition, all the eldar are psychic. Exarchs aren't just combat capable individuals they're a collection of past exarchs in the suit's soulstones, calling on an ability that requires you to sift through dozens of lives of memories could easily be considered a psychic power.

All Eldar may be psychic but that doesn't mean that all Eldar have instant access to powers which would be useful in game without any honing of their abilities.

When the Eldar go to war, the only individuals that use psychic powers are the warlocks and Farseers. They are specially trained to use their psychic abilities in battle.

Exarch powers are already a representation of them drawing on their past lives to be better than the Aspect warriors that follow them in combat. Some of them could even be seen as "minor" psychic powers giving them better battlefield awareness, and using them without a psychic test shows how skilled the Eldar are.

All Eldar may be psychic but that doesn't mean that all Eldar have instant access to powers which would be useful in game without any honing of their abilities.

Yup. Just because you can tie your shoes with your mind doesn't necessarily mean it's going to have a battlefield application.

I would really like to see Storm Guardians get some better treatment, maybe bump their WS to 4 and better special weapons, and possibly include a Warlock as a Sergeant Upgrade with some abilities that could grant Hit and Run, Embolden, and maybe Furious Charge?

I almost got an Eldar army until I saw the abysmal troop choices.

Adding a warlock basically is a sergeant upgrade. And giving him Enhance gives the Storm Guardians a WS of 4, or Destructor gives them a third flamer.

I think their troop choices are fine. They just aren't as over the top as new armies, and that imbalance is the fault in the design of the new armies, not the Eldar.

Ulthanashville wrote:I want to see guardians retconned out. They don't make sense.

"Oh hai, we're a dying race with incredibly advanced technology, but we clad our chefs and poets in papier mâché, issue them 20th-century crossbows and send them onto the field en masse as cannon fodder."

Actually it does make sense but the game treats them in a weird way.

The logic is that they Eldar are a dying race so they dont have enough men to do the job. They only have so many well trained and elite soldiers and each loss of these guys is a massive loss. This means they are relying on anyone they can get their hands on to assist in battles to take presure off the elites. All they need is to put pressure on the enemy, have the enemy be distracted by them. They arnt suppose to be actual cannon fodder but they are so weak (to reflect their poor training being poets and all) and they have low points (you dont give your conscipts your best gear, you give them the worst, ie low points) that the only way to use them is in mass or not at all.

When Fluff fails to live up to crunch.




I dont know that much about the TT Eldar but I can say, Pskyers, they should be the best or at least one of the best. Maybe a greater focus on Fast Attack units?