Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have had a very small time painting business (The Stubborn Brush ) dealing with local customers only so far. But here is my question(s). The way i charge is Not per model when it comes to small (25mm) units but in bulk 5-10-15. I normally charge just for painting. But recently i have taken on a rather large job. A Lot of the models have a good hunk of paint on them, and i am torn. The customer has already paid me more then half of the Cost, i am not sure on what to do. I am torn between what i know i can do work wise and quality and what i am paid for. I was paid to paint, but the models in my opinion need stripped so the paint job that the customer paid for will look nice. I guess what im asking is.. Should i follow my gut and strip them then paint them.. or just paint them as that is what the customer paid for. Or ask for more since i have to more work ins tripping them (which i don't feel comfortable with)

Well I would go with the gut but be professional and compromise. If I was you i would strip and paint one and do one without stripping and give them both justice and let the client decide which one he prefers better and explain the extra work involved with the stripped one and see if he will be willing to pay the little extra for stripping involved.

cheers and good luck and if it was me I would be willing to pay more if it looked better and i seen the difference but that is me

It all comes down to what was agreed in the first place.

If you knew about the current state of the models when you agreed to a price, then asking for more cash now because you miscalculated on the quote is more than a bit on the dodgy side.

If the owner didn't point out that the models were already partly painted, that would be another story... and if stripping the models was not part of the original deal, and you think it's required for decent results, certainly discuss it with them rather than just giving yourself more work that you're not going to be paid for.

insaniak wrote:It all comes down to what was agreed in the first place.

If you knew about the current state of the models when you agreed to a price, then asking for more cash now because you miscalculated on the quote is more than a bit on the dodgy side.

If the owner didn't point out that the models were already partly painted, that would be another story... and if stripping the models was not part of the original deal, and you think it's required for decent results, certainly discuss it with them rather than just giving yourself more work that you're not going to be paid for.

I knew of the models as they are my friends, But i am in no means asking for more money. I am simply asking what others would do. Eventually i plan on expanding my painting business, but first i want a good solid strong foothold for my local customers. Was just curious what other commission painters would do. But i will mention it to him. I know it's simply my personal belief of doing my 200% best on everything and i need to learn to fight that urge and do what i was paid for.

My policy is as follows:

1) We prefer, and price based on on-sprue / 'as-new' models. This means we know exactly what state things are in.

2) We make it very clear that assembled, and 'worked' models in any state may in fact cost MORE and take LONGER, and even then may produce a lower quality result.

3) Unless very clear photographs are provided and we make an agreement based on those, the client is agreeing that surcharges may be made, and that we may reject the models based on their condition. In the case of rejection, the deposit for the commission is drawn on to post the models back to the client. If the deposit is insufficient the client would need to top up to the right amount.

These really do boil down to making sure both parties know what they're getting into, and protecting the business from inconsiderate / unrealistic clients. As a business, you really do have to CYA.

For the OP, as it's for a friend of yours, if you feel stripping is necessary to make a nice job, do that. I run my business around putting the extra effort in (and yeah, we don't charge enough), but I wouldn't be happy producing something I wouldn't want to put on a table for myself, and nor would most of the guys that work jobs I arrange.

I will add - never, ever do 'mate's rates', eventually you'll be working jobs where a mate will be expecting you to work at a far lower rate than can support you, and won't understand why you need to charge more for your time. Business is business, and you'll get on better with everyone by keeping it that way. By all means, paint as a favour, or for trade, but don't run actual 'commission' work for your friends.

Arrathon wrote:I have had a very small time painting business (The Stubborn Brush ) dealing with local customers only so far. But here is my question(s). The way i charge is Not per model when it comes to small (25mm) units but in bulk 5-10-15. I normally charge just for painting. But recently i have taken on a rather large job. A Lot of the models have a good hunk of paint on them, and i am torn. The customer has already paid me more then half of the Cost, i am not sure on what to do. I am torn between what i know i can do work wise and quality and what i am paid for. I was paid to paint, but the models in my opinion need stripped so the paint job that the customer paid for will look nice. I guess what im asking is.. Should i follow my gut and strip them then paint them.. or just paint them as that is what the customer paid for. Or ask for more since i have to more work ins tripping them (which i don't feel comfortable with)

Since he is your friend, it could be double edged. Easy or, might hurt friendship.
Just explain it in detail outright so he understand.

And see whether he wants you to just paint over it ( and suffer the loss of detail )
Or maybe if you havnt paint them yet, return it to him for stripping if he wishes.

Or he can agree to pay you extra to strip them.

winterdyne wrote:My policy is as follows:

1) We prefer, and price based on on-sprue / 'as-new' models. This means we know exactly what state things are in.

2) We make it very clear that assembled, and 'worked' models in any state may in fact cost MORE and take LONGER, and even then may produce a lower quality result.

3) Unless very clear photographs are provided and we make an agreement based on those, the client is agreeing that surcharges may be made, and that we may reject the models based on their condition. In the case of rejection, the deposit for the commission is drawn on to post the models back to the client. If the deposit is insufficient the client would need to top up to the right amount.

These really do boil down to making sure both parties know what they're getting into, and protecting the business from inconsiderate / unrealistic clients. As a business, you really do have to CYA.

For the OP, as it's for a friend of yours, if you feel stripping is necessary to make a nice job, do that. I run my business around putting the extra effort in (and yeah, we don't charge enough), but I wouldn't be happy producing something I wouldn't want to put on a table for myself, and nor would most of the guys that work jobs I arrange.

I will add - never, ever do 'mate's rates', eventually you'll be working jobs where a mate will be expecting you to work at a far lower rate than can support you, and won't understand why you need to charge more for your time. Business is business, and you'll get on better with everyone by keeping it that way. By all means, paint as a favour, or for trade, but don't run actual 'commission' work for your friends.

@Winterdyne Thank you very much for your input and If you wouldn't mind me asking youa few questions..things i have yet to figure out. Just how exactly do you decied what the "right amount" to charge for doing the non painting work stripping/ building / cleaning up mold lines and such. I have a price list for the painting part of the job, and it is so much lower then everyone else (comes out to almost 1.75$ per infantry model) that of course everyone loves it and i have been swarmed with commissions. The thing is.. I cant stop myself as i said above from doing my absolute 200% best lol. i know it sounds silly but.. I want my buddies and local customers stuff to look as good as mine..because well.. thats my work on that model. I guess this is just something i have to teach myself to actually teach myself to paint for what they pay for right?

The truth of it is I don't charge for basic assembly / cleanup separately to paintwork. The two are so closely linked for most jobs that it's pointless trying to separate them. Similarly, if I get parts that are nicely cut from sprue and cleaned up by the client, I don't lower the bill, it just gives a faster turnaround.

I don't actually think it's a case of 'dialling back' the work you do, so much as charging appropriately. Decide how much you want per hour, figure out roughly how long a job will take and go from there.

When people pay for a service, they are paying for either time or skill, or sometimes both.

Do this; Say to your friend "hey, some of these models you paid me to paint will need stripping to look good. You can;
Strip them yourself, so you don't have to pay me to do it.
Pay me to strip them, and it will be X.
Accept that they may not look very good if they don't get stripped...
Let me know what you want to do".

Stripping is a pain, just as is assembling models.
I do painting commissions as well, and I tell them "I think you should assemble the tanks yourself, as what I would charge will be too much, as it takes me a long time to do it well".
But I also feel my time is my most valuable resource, for others, it might not be.

Best of luck.

I have couple of more questions for you guys who do small time commission work (or even you big guns out there) I have my basic prices of what i charge for a level 1,2 and 3 paint job. When it comes to infantry 925mm base) i charge by groups of 5 per set price. here is where i am lost. Should i be basing these models as well? I charge literally about 1.75$ per model (again 25mm base) And that is for a level 1 paint job which is actually pretty good. It is washed, layered the layers cleaned up and the over all look is very well done. Is it bad taste on my part to charge extra to base these models? Some people i hear charge only Cost of model and their work is based. Just curious as i am still very new to this, and want my customers happy and content. Any help and or ideas given would much be appreciated and thanks in advance!

as with anything starting out, we never charge enough out the gate. What happens is that we get overwhelmed with orders that we cant keep up with, but if you stop to look at how long it takes you to paint say a group of 5 since that is what you charge in the blocks. Figure out a wage you happy with, and calculate it in. I had this happen when I started up my photography business 12 years ago. I was flooded cause I didn't charge enough to barely cover my costs. You wind up getting burnt out due to it as well as frustrated. Charge accordingly to what your client needs, and its not the easiest thing to figure out since all areas are different economically.

So would you think it would be a good job to charge by the job, and not keep a "price list"? Or simply refine the list to reflect what i feel my time+skill level is worth onto of the materials?

the problem with posting a price list is that there are exceptions to every rule; each job is going to be different. the client may read through the list and think that they can get X service for Y price and then be disappointed when you tell them "oh, that's actually going to be Z price because of this and that."

I think it's fine to keep a price list in your own head, but I would charge by the job and only once you know the full scope of what you're being hired to do (e.g., condition of the models, level of quality, conversion work, specific requirements like matching an existing color scheme, hard deadlines, etc.). otherwise, you run the risk of selling yourself short.

unfortunately, as others have pointed out, there's no real science to it. you'll have to get a feel for how long it takes you to do jobs and then decide what your time is worth to you. you also need to consider materials costs; paint's not getting any cheaper :p

you could try looking at what other commission painters in your area are charging and compare their results with the quality of your own work, but that's a slippery slope; better to run your own race, so to speak

Figure out a wage you happy with, and calculate it in, this is all you can do.

Hell, for a single HQ mini I'd be looking at at least 5 if not 6-7 hours painting and hence I'd be charging at least £40-50 quid