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So, the other day after a casual game with some friends we started to chat about some units that we would like to see on the game board, personally as a tau player id like to play using some of the other castes, after some thinking i came up with an idea for a water caste unit, they would work as a body guard unit for an ethereal.

Water caste
Unit size 1-5
Cost 25 pts

Ws Bs. Str T W I L S
1 2 2 3 1 1 9 5++

Gear
Portable shield generator: grants its bearer a 5++ save, already included in profile

especial Rules:
Silver tonge: the members of the water caste are well know for their diplomacy skills and its not strange to find whole planets once loyal to their respective empires now fighting side to side for the greater good. At the shooting face the water caste unit may try to "convert" an enemy unit on los, choose the objetive unit and make a leadership test, if sucessfull then you and your opponet trows 2d6 and add 1 to your result for each water caste member remaining in the unit, if your result is higer than your opponents then the objetive unit passes to your control. At the beggining of your opponent turn he may take a leadership test, if passes then he ragains control of the unit but it counts as if the last turn it got pinned. This ability cannot be used on tyranid units.

Opinions everyone?, or what units would you like to see?

Pd sorry for any grammar mistakes, im not a natural english speaker.

It's kinda cool, but completely unrealistic. Nobody would change sides in the middle of fierce battle, even if there was an incredible negotiator involved.

Uh... unless this Water Caste unit gets really, really close to whoever they're trying to convert, the target unit's not going to hear them over the explosions, the shooting, the screaming, the dying, the rev of chainsword and the shriek of rockets and missiles.

Also... unless the target army is some pile of conscripts or penal legion, some fish-faced blue guys are not going to convince them to give up their loyalty to the God-Emperor (or the Ruinous Powers) or their Waaaghboss or their Craftworld or their KinkySexyFunTime Cabal to go sit around and join the commune. We know this isn't a psychic effect, which could, theoretically, mind-control people into doing that, since the Tau have no psykers, so I find the special ability just... kinda pointless for a battlefield scenario. The other team isn't going to stand there and let you jabber at them while they're trying to kill all of you.

Yeah, i suppose you guys are right it should probably be a range ability or something like that,

S1 and T1 are odd. Tau are roughly comparable to humans when it comes to physical characteristics and most humans have S3 and T3.
Besides that, i agree with the other posters that a water cast member is unlikely to actualy convert anyone on the battlefield.

We don't see the Water Caste guys very often, they might be smaller and more frail than the Fire Caste warriors. I also think that maybe it was set that way to seem "balanced"... for a unit with a power that lets him seize your unit and use it against you.

Yep Pisienesis that was the idea, a extreme weak unit but with the ability to bother the opponent, i was thinking something like the age of empires monks

Perhaps instead of completely taking over the unit, it requires opposed rolls, or maybe just a LD check on the target unit, and if the target unit fails, it's... i dunno, locked down with doubt or has to spend the turn regrouping or something... I was just thinking that, with a troop type like this, against the IG.... well, that's what Commissars are for. If one guy looked like he was buying into the Tau line, the Com would crater his skull.

Why not have the ability usable on Reserves/Infilltrate/Deep Strike/etc? Representing the Water Caste persuading them before the battle/off-board.

instead of converting, what about making them not shoot that turn. However, both players shoul have to roll a dice. If the tau player gets a higher result or the same, the targeted unit cannot shoot that turn. If not, they shoot as normal. I agree with the idea of them being frail, as otherwise they would fight, but i think they should be upgrades for squads, and not a bodyguard unit, or a seperate squad in there own.

Tau really would only be able to turn non-Astartes humans. Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, and Necrons won't give a gak to what they have to say. Tyranids...Yeah, good luck with that....

I'd try to use them more as a utility function rather than direct control.

example abilities could be:

Lower enemy leaderships (bribery, propoganda campaigns before battle etc.)
Make enemy reserves suffer penalties to arrive (again bribery or signal disruption)
Subject enemy units to shooting penalties for a turn (having turned a member of the army pre-battle and having them sabotage the weaponry)

and so on. Taking control of someone on the battle field is unlikely, turning a slave/serf before the battle and using them to your advantage is more likely.

So basically you want the tau water cast to become the wololo monks from age of empires 1?

I'm fine with that.

Well, the ability wouldn't really work on Orks, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Daemons, Necrons or Sisters of Battle either if you think about it.

If anything I think that the water caste would only be able to affect reserve rolls. Like adding -1 to all enemy reserve rolls and affecting units trying to deepstike or outflank. This could be explained as the water caste getting rogue trader or pirate support to distract enemy forces in orbit, or convincing planetary defense forces to provide intel and scouting forces.

Though I'm not really a fan of castes getting into the fight other than the fire caste. Just hard to figure how or why they would fit in.

Well about the castes getting in the battle field i find more probable a water caste squad interfering enemy comunication and spreading tau propaganda than an ethereal fighting almost bare against a fully equiped power armored marine.

I like the idea of lowering the enemy leadership i find it 5th edition realistic but as the new books come out i see lot of "this tiny monkey can large blast and str 10 ap 1 assault 4 shoot, oh! And it cost 15 pts" so i was trying to make a 6th edition unit

Well i suppose all i can do is wait until GW decides to show some love to us, tau players

It's not a matter of realism for me - it's that it's just kind of silly. Really - you're going to make them change sides? In the middle of a battle? Really?

How about this?

Water Caste Envoy is an HQ choice. Stats are WS 2, BS 2, S 3, T 3, W 2, I 2, L 9 S 4+ 5++ (no reason not to have him in armor).

He has several main advantages:
* Firstly, with a Water Caste Envoy as one of your HQs the 1+ requirement on Fire Warrior teams is removed.
* Secondly, Vespid and Kroot units may always claim objectives regardless of their place in the FOC.
* Thirdly, the Water Caste Envoy has superior leadership skills, which allows him to grant a variety of a special leadership-related powers to your Tau army and/or the unit he joins.
* Finally, the envoy has a variety of upgrades that allow him to "blend in" with alien auxiliary units, such as some kind of jump pack (for hanging out with Vespids), Scout Training (so he can Infiltrate alongside Kroot), or Knarloc Rider (so he can ride Knarlocs and Great Knarlocs alongside Kroot cavalry).

Any non-Fire/Etheral Caste Tau should have WS-, BS- and A- because they are totally non-combat personel.

yamgrenade wrote:It's kinda cool, but completely unrealistic. Nobody would change sides in the middle of fierce battle, even if there was an incredible negotiator involved.

Well, not in 40k for many years. RT had the psychic power "change allegiance" that would do it. You got to use their unit for a turn, in their turn, they got to try and shake it off.

Water caste don't normally go into combat zones. If you are in combat, then diplomacy has failed.

That and water caste envoy's can spend years trying to persuade other species into just working with the tau, let alone trying to get them to turn their guns on their fellow soldiers.

And I believe that when PDF forces have joined alongside the Tau it was when they were about to be wipe off the map and left with no option. And that was done by Fire caste commanders if I remember right.