In no ID jurisdiction young man given Eric Holder's voting ballot

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**Frazzled**

(For those who aren't aware Eric Holder is the Attorney General for the US, and his Departmen tof Justice has sued several states over voter ID laws, claiming they aren't needed and discriminate. )

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/08/DC-Polling-Place-Holder-Ballot

O'Keefe Voter Fraud Investigation: Young Man Offered Holder's Ballot

Email ArticlePrint Article Send a Tip by Breitbart News 2 hours ago 215post a comment
In a shocking new video, James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas demonstrates to the Attorney General of the United States, Eric Holder, just why he should be concerned about lack of voter ID laws – by walking into Holder’s voting precinct and showing the world that anyone can obtain Eric Holder’s ballot. Literally.

The video shows a young man entering a Washington, DC polling place at 3401 Nebraska Avenue, NW, on primary day of this year – April 3, 2012 – and giving Holder’s name and address. The poll worker promptly offers the young man Holder’s ballot to vote.

Holder has maintained that voter fraud is not a major problem in the United States, and that voter ID would not curb voter fraud in any case.

Project Veritas has already shown how dead people can vote in New Hampshire, prompting the state senate to pass a voter ID law; they’ve shown celebrities like Tim Tebow and Tom Brady registering to vote in Minnesota, prompting the state legislature to put voter ID on the ballot as a constitutional amendment. Washington DC voting law is a federal jurisdictional area. Will the federal government take up the challenge?
ON BREITBART TV

O'Keefe's Latest: Voter Fraud Investigation Lands On Eric Holder's Doorstep

**LordofHats**

That's pretty funny. At the end of the day Holder's face is gonna be a little red XD

**Chowderhead**

I want to know which one he (Fake Eric Holder) voted for, TBH.

I bet it was Gingrich.

**Manchu**

This is a little silly. Holder's argument is that people aren't committing voter fraud not that voter fraud is impossible. The video in question assumes the opposite premise of Holder's position in order to undermine it. It's a bit like me presenting a video of a guy smashing a gumball machine to convince the legislature to increase gumball machine security. After all, anyone could walk up to a gumball machine and smash it.

**SagesStone**

Holder has maintained that voter fraud is not a major problem in the United States, and that voter ID would not curb voter fraud in any case.

Yay, I can do modern politics.

**Chowderhead**

Manchu wrote:This is a little silly. Holder's argument is that people aren't committing voter fraud not that voter fraud is impossible. The video in question assumes the opposite premise of Holder's position in order to undermine it. It's a bit like me presenting a video of a guy smashing a gumball machine to convince the legislature to increase gumball machine security. After all, anyone could walk up to a gumball machine and smash it.

That's a bit of an unfair comparison, isn't it?

One is talking about something that decides the fate of the country (and the world, in certain ways), and the other gives you a treat for 25 cents.

**Manchu**

@CHead: You're not contrasting the relevant characteristic: just like there is no rash of gumball machine heists, there is no voter fraud. It does not matter if one crime is trivial and the other is crucial; neither are happening. So it's just as important to legislate against one as it is against the other -- i.e., not important at all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Headline should read: "Conservatives Willing To Commit Crime To Prove Useless Law Relevant"

**sirlynchmob**

so was the man who did it arrested? Voter fraud is already a crime and he just video'd himself doing it.

The criminal penalty for fraudulently voting when not legally qualified or for voting more than once when qualified is a fine of $300 to $500, one to two years in prison, and disenfranchisement. Anyone who votes or attempts to vote by assuming the name of another is subject to a fine of $500, one year in prison, and disenfranchisement (CGS § 9-360).

**Kanluwen**

n0t_u wrote:
Holder has maintained that voter fraud is not a major problem in the United States, and that voter ID would not curb voter fraud in any case.

Yay, I can do modern politics.

Having a fake ID does not necessarily mean you can vote with it.

Chowderhead wrote:
That's a bit of an unfair comparison, isn't it?

One is talking about something that decides the fate of the country (and the world, in certain ways), and the other gives you a treat for 25 cents.

It's not an unfair comparison. "Project Veritas"(because using Latin makes you sound classier!) is going out of its way to try to make Holder's argument look bad with an unrelated argument.

The DOJ has sued states over voter ID laws because they aren't needed and they're potentially discriminatory in nature. That's not "voter fraud is impossible, so these laws are completely unnecessary!". PV has decided to take the imaginary argument of "Voter fraud is possible, we MUST STOP IT!" and show themselves doing this.

**Frazzled**

Chowderhead wrote:
Manchu wrote:This is a little silly. Holder's argument is that people aren't committing voter fraud not that voter fraud is impossible. The video in question assumes the opposite premise of Holder's position in order to undermine it. It's a bit like me presenting a video of a guy smashing a gumball machine to convince the legislature to increase gumball machine security. After all, anyone could walk up to a gumball machine and smash it.

That's a bit of an unfair comparison, isn't it?

One is talking about something that decides the fate of the country (and the world, in certain ways), and the other gives you a treat for 25 cents.

That is unfair. Treats are important!

**SagesStone**

Kanluwen wrote:
n0t_u wrote:
Holder has maintained that voter fraud is not a major problem in the United States, and that voter ID would not curb voter fraud in any case.

Yay, I can do modern politics.

Having a fake ID does not necessarily mean you can vote with it.

It does however help with identity theft when impersonating someone. Requiring ID won't stop it, but it will heavily discourage it with the added effort needed to pull it off.

**Manchu**

We're talking about legislation to discourage non-existent behavior.

Where are all the small government conservatives???

**hotsauceman1**

Manchu wrote:We're talking about legislation to discourage non-existent behavior.

Where are all the small government conservatives???

Trying to make porn illegal.
Also this story is hilarious. Flipping hilarious.

**Frazzled**

Manchu wrote:We're talking about legislation to discourage non-existent behavior.

Where are all the small government conservatives???

They're all on my side agreeing its not nonexistent...

**LordofHats**

Propose that it is nonexistant. Wouldn't it be better to have the safe guards just in case? Its not like getting ID is difficult. Most states already have pseudo-ID laws with voter cards. It's not a huge burden.

It's kind of annoying to solve a problem with a leaky pipe after the pipe has already burst.

**Ouze**

I hope Frazzled also intends to post the now-inevitable evidence that will show up in about a week showing the tape was doctored in some way.

**Manchu**

Frazzled wrote:They're all on my side agreeing its not nonexistent...

The voter fraud or the small government conservative position?

**Frazzled**

Ouze wrote:I hope Frazzled also intends to post the now-inevitable evidence that will show up in about a week showing the tape was doctored in some way.

I'm sure you'll take care of that for me.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:
Frazzled wrote:They're all on my side agreeing its not nonexistent...
The voter fraud or the small government conservative position?

Voter fraud. After all, Kennedy won the Presidency on it.

**Manchu**

Yeah, and then all he did was film that fake moon landing, sheesh.

Meanwhile, in reality ...

**Frazzled**

Manchu wrote:Yeah, and then all he did was film that fake moon landing, sheesh.

Meanwhile, in reality ...

Incorrect fake moon landings were Johnson/Nixon

**Manchu**

But without the fraudulent election of JFK, we would never have gotten to the moon. I don't think Johnson or Nixon would have taken orders from the pope. I guess it all balances out, however, thanks to our massive victory at the Bay of Pigs.

I love Bizarro History ... er, me am not mean, me hate Bizarro Un-history.

**Frazzled**

Manchu wrote:But without the fraudulent election of JFK, we would never have gotten to the moon. I don't think Johnson or Nixon would have taken orders from the pope. I guess it all balances out, however, thanks to our massive victory at the Bay of Pigs.

I love Bizarro History ... er, me am not mean, me hate Bizarro Un-history.

Come back to us Manchu, come back. just follow the sound of my voice. Come baaaaaack.

**Monster Rain**

This conversation seems familiar. As such:

I'm still wondering if it's racist to require IDs to purchase firearms, as bearing them is a constitutionally guaranteed right.

**Frazzled**

Oooohh good one.

**Manchu**

Monster Rain wrote:This conversation seems familiar. As such:

I'm still wondering if it's racist to require IDs to purchase firearms, as bearing them is a constitutionally guaranteed right.

We've gone over that sort of thing several times, so I'll just supply the relevant talking points this time:

- rights can be legitimately limited so that their exercise does not cause significant harm

- a voter ID requirement is not inherently racist

- voter ID requirements disproportionately affect the poor and so also black people

- voter ID requirements as proposed would be ineffectual against actual attempts at fraud

- voter fraud does not seem to actually happen

- illegal trafficking of firearms happens quite a lot

**Monster Rain**

Manchu wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:This conversation seems familiar. As such:

I'm still wondering if it's racist to require IDs to purchase firearms, as bearing them is a constitutionally guaranteed right.

- a voter ID requirement is not inherently racist

Then you are not the person with whom I happen to disagree on this topic with.

Though...

Manchu wrote:- rights can be legitimately limited so that their exercise does not cause significant harm

If voter fraud were shown to be an actual problem, would you support a voter ID law? Hypothetically speaking, of course. I don't have any data on the matter one way or the other.

**Frazzled**

- rights can be legitimately limited so that their exercise does not cause significant harm
****Only in extremely rare circumstances.

- a voter ID requirement is not inherently racist
***True dat

- voter ID requirements disproportionately affect the poor and so also black people
***That’s an argument, not a fact.

- voter ID requirements as proposed are would be ineffectual against actual attempts at fraud
***That’s an argument, not a fact. But then again, if it flows with your #1 point, then it should not be an issue. At the same time if even deminimis fraud is occurring, thats effectively disenfranchisement of legally cast votes.

- voter fraud does not seem to actually happen
***That’s definitely just an argument. Voter fraud happens all the time. Just hit google.

- illegal trafficking of firearms happens quite a lot
***Falsehood. There has never been a recorded instance of a firearm driving anywhere.

**Manchu**

Monster Rain wrote:If voter fraud were shown to be an actual problem, would you support a voter ID law? Hypothetically speaking, of course. I don't have any data on the matter one way or the other.

Yes, I would. But we'd have to get into what you mean by "an actual problem." Some people believe that voter fraud is "an actual problem" because a conservative lobbyist can obtain a ballot by illegally passing himself off as Eric Holder but I'm not one of them. I don't think that voter fraud is currently "an actual problem" in any of the States.

**Monster Rain**

Okay, by "actual problem" I mean that voter fraud becomes something that is happening in sufficient numbers to substantially affect election outcomes.

**Manchu**

We'll end up going around and around. Frazzled, for example, has already said that de minimis fraud is effective disenfranchisement. And I don't think that is the real issue, anyhow. For example, does a voter ID requirement actually eliminate de minimus fraud? -- on it's face, no. It only makes fraud marginally more problematic for the absolutely least capable/committed fraudsters.