Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, Im still new to making lists, So what do you think?
i can remove the redeemer to make it a 1500 list too.

1850 list
HQ
Khan= 160

Total 160
Troops
Tactical Squad= 90
+5 Models= 80
Flamer,Heavy Bolter= free
Rhino=35
Total=205

Tactical Squad= 90
+5 models=80
Plasma pistol, Melta Gun, = 25
Multi Melta= free
Rhino=35
Total= 230

Scouts=75
Sniper=free
Heavy Bolter=10
Total= 85

Elite
Stern Guard=125
LC Terminator Assault Squad= 200
Dedicated Transport=Land Raider Redeemer=240
Multi Melta+10

Fast Attack
Attack Bike squad= 120points
3 Multi meltas
Total= 150

Bike Squad= 90
+2 models= 50
2 meltas= 20
Total 150

Heavy Support
Vindicator= 115
Siege Sheild= 10
Total=125

Predator=60
Extra armor=15
Total=75

Whirlwind=85

I think this army is awesome, though I woudl take out the predator and amake a few minor adjustments to get another vindicator

I am fairly certain that five bikes with two meltaguns costs 160.

Tactical Squads have access to better weapons than heavy bolters. They only make sense on Scouts because they come with hellfire shells.

I wouldn't take a plasma pistol on a Sergeant, combi-melta yes, plasma pistol no.

Flamers are cheap (free in fact) so not a bad option. Multi-meltas are free too and pose some threat to any armour parked within 24 inches. Missile launchers offer the possibility of dropping a combat squad in your deployment zone without being forced to.

Whirlwinds are an armour 11 vehicle dropping the large blast equivalent of a heavy flamer on people. I'd take a Predator with sponson heavy bolters for the same price.

Your Sternguard have no transport and consequently don't fit with the rest of the army. Either buy them one, or drop them.

Lightning claw assault terminators led by Khan will rip up a lot of things on the charge, and then die horribly as they're shot to pieces. If someone gets the option of shooting the Land Raider that's a lot of points that won't affect the battle much. For less points than the terminators plus raider you can get a command squad plus Rhino. It lacks the assault ramp, but it's easier to hide behind other Rhinos.

For myself I'd be more tempted by.

Khan 160
5 command squad, 3 lightning claws, thunder hammer, 4 storm shields, two meltaguns, two flamers, Rhino. 315

10 Tactical Marines, combi-melta, melta, missile launcher, Rhino 220
10 Tactical Marines, combi-melta, melta, missile launcher, Rhino 220
5 Scouts, camo cloak, 4 sniper rifles, heavy bolter 100

5 Bikes, 2 meltaguns 160
3 Attack Bikes, 3 multi-meltas 150

Vindicator 115
Vindicator 115
Predator, sponson heavy bolters 85

5 Assault Terminators, 5 thunder hammer and storm shield 200

Total 1840

Outflanking armies tend to come in piecemeal as their reserve rolls come up, so I'm not sure that Khan is actually a good character to use. That said he is a nice model, so kudos for using him. The terminators hope to turn up after your other units, and then deep-strike somewhere close to the other units to act as melee support in the following turn. With meltaguns or flamers firing from the top hatch the command squad has something to do when not fighting in close combat, and should they get a chance to charge they may kill something.

I could remove some of the ancilary stuff and give the stern guard a drop pod.
ANd i was thinking of buying another Vindi.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Khan= 160

Why Khan?
Unless your really planning on using the outflank, there are much better HQ choices. Captains are generally considered sub-par compared to librarians unless your going for a specific special rule.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Flamer,Heavy Bolter= free

You won't need these 2. Change your HB for a MM/ML. HBs are just crap in today's meta -- especially on a foot unit.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Plasma pistol, Melta Gun

Drop your plamsa pistol. If your looking for an upgrade, look into a PF.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Scouts

Consider giving these guys a land speeder storm and outflanking them from reserve. I explained this theory a lot in this post below.
http://the11thcompany.freeforums.org/tac-squads-alternatives-land-speeder-storm-t3581.html

hotsauceman1 wrote:Stern Guard=125

These guys seem out of place. Are they going to have a ride or anything? If nothing else, give them a drop pod and a few combi-meltas.

hotsauceman1 wrote:LC Terminator Assault Squad

Go with TH/SS. For 40 points a model, their dead hard.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Attack Bike squad

This is a suicide squad to take down high armor targets. 3 of them is a bit overkill, I would go with 2. The reason is you don't want to trade 150 points for a 200 point target when you can trade 100 points for the same thing.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Vindicator

1 Vindicator is good. 3 of them are much better. If your going to run with vindicators, go with a few. You don't need that siege shield.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Predator

Drop the extra armor. A bare bones predator can be decent, but you need to make sure you use it correctly.
http://the11thcompany.freeforums.org/bare-bones-predators-t3580.html

hotsauceman1 wrote:Whirlwind

Drop this model if you can, its garbage. Look on web sites like hoard_o_bits to find the parts to do this on the cheap.

I am planning on outflanking the enemy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, What about this?
Instead of khan what about a Libby on a bike with the str 10 attack(perils of the warp i think its called)
So it can move and attack in the same turn.

Right, but only your units with combat tactics can outflank. While it makes your TH/SS termies hit like a fist, who cares if tac squads outflank.
Without a ride, the sternguard cant get close enough to use their combi-meltas right?

Today there are generally 3 builds that people run in C:SM
* Vulcan lists
* Shrike lists
* Bike lists
A khan build works well with bike armies at high point values, as you can outflank a bike 12" from the board edge, and get good shots on side armor. (though at the loss of combat tactics, which is another discussion)

A libby on a bike is decent. Where would you stick him so he wont get singled out. In a bike, he cant ride in a rhino.

Maybe i would stick him with the bike squad, so i can allocate wounds off of him.

Remember, your bike squad is a suicide unit. In a game of long fangs and psy-dreads you can't expect them to survive the game sitting back at 24" plucking away. Their job is to turbo-boost and get 1 turn of shooting before they die horribly.

You can stick him there to start but he will have to leave pretty soon afterwords.
You can also literally just hide him behind a LR or rhino until one of those squads is out. You can still join an infantry squad with a bike IC.

Well im going to have to buy alot more models then to get this list. I dont have alot of this stuff :(
Like i only have one infantry multi melta


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, So i dont have my codex with me.
But maybe will drop Khan, drop my preds extra armor, drop the whirlwind,
Go with 2 attack bikes.
Get a libby with a bike
Give both tacts a multi melta.
give the scout a speeder,
Drop the stern guard.
Should i keep the LC termies with redeemer though?

I would take khan outunless your going for a full bike army
Whirlwind's are great anti-horde, I woudl keep it.
Definetely drop the extra armoru no the pred.
I would give the tac's flamers and either ML or MM.
The sternguard desperately need a vehicle. If they don't get one, drop them.
I would switch the lightning claws for TH and SS. If not, then you could drop them and go for a lower point game.
Get another vindicator if possible.

You can pick up multi-meltas on eBay for between 8 and 12 dollars, the cheaper the better of course.

Run what you have is a good rule of thumb. If you give your tactical squad a combi-melta, meltagun and missile launcher you can combat squad, stick the Librarian with the melta half and leave the missile launcher behind to shoot things. If you have the model you could even use a lascannon for that.

You could take an attack bike from the three and attach it to your normal bike squad.

If you have the lightning claw terminators already then don't go buying more. When I realized how good storm shields had become I went and popped the arms off my assault terminators so I could attach the thunder hammer arms that I'd left in my bitz box. Believe me, arms stuck with plastic cement (and the shoulder pads) don't come off easily.

If you're playing against normal opponents, then running one Land Raider isn't that bad. Melta heavy tournament armies do tend to make a mess of them though.

If you have the bits still you can put heavy bolter sponsons on your Predator. 85 points for 8 shots a turn with 13 armour is pretty good. To be honest it's my favourite Predator configuration.

Using the snipers with camo cloaks, sitting on your home objective doesn't require them to have a Storm. I've never used one, but I'd call them "nice to have" rather than essential.

I will say, don't take heavy bolters on anything other than Scouts, Predators or Typhoons.

For combi-meltas I go here
http://bitspudlo.com/
Their combi-thermic guns fit easily in place of a bolter.

hotsauceman1 wrote:Drop the stern guard.
Should i keep the LC termies with redeemer though?

Let me put it this way. Here are the best units from the C:SM codex.
Librarain with Null/Zone
Null zone is a huge force multiplier. It changes the chance of termies making saves from 66.6% to 45%. Not every list can take one, but when you can its awesome.

TH/SS Termies
If you look in other books, you will see they cost more than 40 points each. That's because for 40 points each they are a 'steal'

ThunderFire Cannon
Before I would not have said these are that great, but as Draigowing is becoming more popular, these are starting to find more use.

Special Character Cheeze
Vulcan and Shrike are both very good choices. Vulcan gives your MM a lot more durability, and shrike lets you inflitrate TH/SS fleeting terminators. Owch

Bikes as Troops
Bikes as troops can be quite good actually. Bikes are excellent at taking objectives and delivering a lot of mobile firepower

Sternguard
For only a few more points than normal marines, you get a lot of shooting options. These guys do very well in a drop pod.

Scouts and Storm Speeders
For the reasons mentioned earlier, these can be a nice choice for normal marines.

Dakka Dreads
While they are sub-par to the GK version, they are still decent buys that are pretty resilient and put out a lot of STR 7 fire, which is good for cracking razorback spam.


Today you see three main builds.
* You see a Vulcan build brimming with Melta/Flamers, which is still a decent build today. Vulcan HF/MM speeders are worth sacrificing for tanks because of the TL.
* You see Shrike armies. These shove 10 fleeting TH/SS down your throat so the rest of the army can work unmolested. I've seen lots of drop pods used to here for good effect.
* You see bike armies. These will bring 3-4 squads of bikes and support. This is the army I play and its very strong.

Um, What is a dakka Dread?
Is that a riflemen dread?
Because i have a venerable dread that i can use as regular that i was thinking of getting some arms for.

Vulcan would inprove your list if you had th/ss termies. Pedro would help too by making your sternguard scoring and pumping up the attacks of the LC termies.

I would like to see 2 vindicators for you HS choices, but we play what we have.

I am running 2 vindi's and a LR redeemer to good affect. They support each other very well.

Ok, I think i got a general direction of where i need to go.
Thanks for the help, Its raining here alot so i can do modeling(i need to prime models) So i ca work on lists.
Also i got a LS storm.

Love speeder storms

hotsauceman1 wrote:Um, What is a dakka Dread?
Is that a riflemen dread?
Because i have a venerable dread that i can use as regular that i was thinking of getting some arms for.

Yea, sorry -- a rifleman dread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:Love speeder storms

So, I made a list baased off suggestions.

1500 Bike list
HQ
Khan Total=205
Troops
Bike squad
+ Attack bike with melta
2 meltas
Total=160
Bike Suad
+attack bike with melta
2 plasma guns
Total=170
Tactical squad Ten strong
Melta
Multi-melta
Rhino
Total=210
Tactical Squad ten strong
Plasma gun
Missle Launcher
Rhino
Total=215
Scouts with snipers
Land speeder storm
125
Elites
Dread
2 autocannons
total=125
Heavy support
Vindicator=115
Vindicator=115
Predator=60

Um, I would edit that message, because its against the rules of the forum to show the point values of individual upgrades. Just list the upgrades and the points total of the squad.

On this post, I talk a lot about bike armies.
http://the11thcompany.freeforums.org/tac-squads-alternatives-bike-armies-t3582.html

I think with bikes if your going to go, you need to go all out and take 3-4 squads. Leave your tacs at home. TAC marines suck. Bikes are much better.
Give your scouts a CCW and not snipers.

Vindicators always scare me with bikes, as I have an up-close and personal army, and I never like throwing big pie shells over my head. Honestly though, vindicators are very good and I need to just accept it
Here are some images of my bike army to help give you some ideas.

On the design board


Note the different arms. Make each one look unique and cool.


In Action


Note how I use a lot of support units here.