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Just wanted to get a general sense of the opinions here on Dakka Dakka.

We've all seen the effects of Radical Inquisitors on the 40K universe. One..two..three and off the deep end they go.

But the line of Radicalism (or what type of Radicalism that is engaged in) tends to shift depending on the Sector and who is doing the judging.

Some folks i'm sure would, despite all that's occurred, still nod their heads in approval of Gregor Eisenhorn's actions.

Others would see him burnt at the stake....but give allowances to someone like Bronislaw Czevak.


So to those loyal soldiers of the God-Emperor of Mankind i ask: What is too radical for you?

Is it the type of Radicalism? Daemons no but Xenos yes? (Or Tek-Heresy? Or none at all?)

Is it the format? Learning yes, but no use of items. Or vice-versa?

Or is there some other criteria that you would impose?

Any Inquistor's that use a skateboard...that would be too Radical for me...


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Sorry, I couldn't help myself!


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Actually, I prefer mine nice and Radical personally, I think that aside from Chaos, Inquisitors should use Xenos tech against Xenos etc. If anyone is capable of doing it, it would be them...Even if every now and again one does turn. Besides, that's what the other branches are for as far as I am concerned.

Besides, it gives the inquistion more depth if they are as capable of persecuting themselves along the way!

lol jihadnik.

I dont see any problem with a radical inquisitor (afterall i am a follower of Khorne )

As long as they dont go around killing people "for the good of the imperium AKA no reason" their fine.

It goes too far when they start using the powers of Chaos directly. Daemonhosts, rituals, and so on.

Using Xenos technology or what have you isn't all that bad, the Officio Assassinorum maintains a vault of alien weaponry and it isn't a malevolent and corrupting power like chaos.

Harriticus wrote:It goes too far when they start using the powers of Chaos directly. Daemonhosts, rituals, and so on.

Using Xenos technology or what have you isn't all that bad, the Officio Assassinorum maintains a vault of alien weaponry and it isn't a malevolent and corrupting power like chaos.

That said, there's quite a few xenos races who were chaos worshipers. The Yu'Vath being a good example of one.

It really all depends on the faction involved. If it's an Istvaanian then they're probably already teetering on the edge. If they're Libricars then just keep on eye on them but they probably won't do anything too rash. If they're a Oblationist than you get some storm troopers on that guy and you watch every step he and all of his assets make.

Wow. This is interesting. Alot of folks seem to be "Pro-Xenos tech."

Looks like Bronislaw comes out better than Eisenhorn in your collective opinions.

Anyone here "Pro-TekHeresy?" Although now that i think about it, the only non-Warp tainted Tek Heresy seems to center on the creation of AI..

I'd recommend checking out a copy of the Dark Heresy splat book, Radical's Handbook. It goes into a tremendous amount of detail concerning all the various radical factions, their beliefs, their methods, and who among them is looked upon sternly versus being out right hunted as as heretic.

jareddm wrote:I'd recommend checking out a copy of the Dark Heresy splat book, Radical's Handbook. It goes into a tremendous amount of detail concerning all the various radical factions, their beliefs, their methods, and who among them is looked upon sternly versus being out right hunted as as heretic.

Have a copy - in fact that kind of prompted this thread when i compared it to the "literary lives" of the following Inquisitors:

Eisenhorn
Ravenor
Czevak

And the original literary Inquistor, Jaq Draco

Calixis Sector rules need no apply in such cases. ;-).

Radical is whatever the person calling the shots decides it is.

One inquisitor may not view something as radical while another does.

Grey Templar wrote:Radical is whatever the person calling the shots decides it is.

One inquisitor may not view something as radical while another does.

Maybe i should have been a bit more explicit with the original question.


I'm not asking for an objective definition or the mechanics or the Lore regarding Radicalism.


I'm asking where You, the Player/Consumer of BL Lore/RPG fan draw that line.

What would you find acceptable or unacceptable?

Radical for me would be using a Daemon Weapon or Daemon Artifact.

Xenos artifacts are fair game.

Making deals with daemons, not daemonhosts.

Hmm. Radical for me would be directly consorting with daemons & the warp with the belief that using them as tools will help with the fight - fight fire with fire, as it were.

However I do find the heavy-handed Puritan factions to be just as obnoxious - I suppose it comes from prefering the Amalathian set of beliefs.

My interest in the Inquisition is more to do with the Ordo Xenos (they don't get as much love as the other two Ordos )

I don't have a problem with an Ordo Xenos Inquisitor using Xenos tech, or even Xenos allies (Those that can be reasoned with anyway, Tau, Kroot, Eldar etc. So no Orks or 'nids) This would probably be considered "Radical" by most. But as Sparks_Havelock else said above, the strongly Puritan factions annoy me slightly; they seem very "blinkered" in their views. Although I like the conflict that can arise between Inquisitors of different factions. It makes things more interesting

If you haven't already check out the Inquisitor rulebook and Thorian sourcebook from the Inquisitor Specialist Game (Both available as free .pdfs from GWs site) Loads of info on the different factions.

I always though the whole "kill the alien" was just Imperial military propaganda said to prepare soldiers for war so they won't hesitate to kill the Xeno enemy.

More recent army books separate the factions and there is little crossover of technology, however that doesn't mean there are huge allowances otherwise for aliens everywhere else in the 40k universe.

Use of Daemonic artifacts, rituals, bound Daemons and hired Chaos Sorcerers.

It's very easy: If it kills them, use it.

There is no means "too" radical as far as the fight against Daemons are concerned.

Like in the novel Grey Knight, the following gives away the final twist of the novel so don't read the spoiler if you are going to read the book.

Many Inquisitors of Ordo Xenos has Jokaroo as henchmen, and they ain't opposed to even use damonhosts against the xenos. As for radicalism I have thought little of it. Then again the Inquisitors in my fluff either serves as the bosses sending my protagonists to missions of outmust importance, or guys who are killed by the protagonists before they unleash something terrible.

I would say that if you use any xenos equipment that directly interfaces with your body or mind, that's too radical for ordo xenos.

You are tainted.

The Malleus and Hereticus side however, are much more obscure. Summoning daemons or using daemon weapons is probably where I would draw the line as absolutely OMGWTFBBQ heresy and radicalism. Before that line, there's a chance that the Inquisitor can be convinced that such actions need to be done cautiously. Once you're summoning daemons, you're off the deep end and the only solution is "push the shiny red button".

Hrmm.

So the vast majority of you seem to favor the operations of radical Ordos Xenos Inquisitors, with a high degree of acquiencse toward the usage of Xenos technology.

The reverse trend is for Chaos - with only Shadox and Magpie sitting on the "End justifies the Means" section of the spectrum.

Refining this further:

1.) To any Pro-Xenos Tech person - what's wrong with dabbling in Chaos?

2.) Melissia - your the only person on this thread who preached a caution toward Xenos Tech. Why would you consider the conditions you set up being conducive to "taint" (assuming that isn't Warp taint.

3.) And for the "Pro-Chaos to let chaos eat itself" folks - some of you have made a distinction between summoning Demons and working with Daemonhosts as where your particular dividing line is drawn.

Why? How do you see one or the other to be different?

Oh the taint of xeno tech is simple. Interface with it and you can end up getting kicked in the balls to state it mildly. The xeno-tech can be not meant for humans, or the spirit of the arms can be too odd for the humans to interface with. Also the AdMech is not to be trifled with, and they can tell a planet to lie down and die.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:
1.) To any Pro-Xenos Tech person - what's wrong with dabbling in Chaos?

I'll take a stab at this one; The major difference between Xenos tech usage and attempting to use Chaos against itself is that Chaos, by it's very nature, is a corrupting influence. Even the smallest Chaos tainted artefact and the influences that can arise from them can have massive consequences. Inquisitors that mess with them, initially in the name of protecting the IoM can (and occasionally do) fall to Chaos, in some cases even outright worshipping that which they once sought to destroy. Even if they don't fall quite so far it's undeniable that the Chaotic influence can affect them in various ways.

Xenos tech on the other hand (depending upon the tech in question, naturally) is relatively safe by comparison. A Tau manufactured plasma rifle is, after all, still only a plasma rifle, albeit made in a different way. Eldar/ Dark Eldar and Tau tech is the only real "Xenos" tech that I can see being used by Inquisitors, as it is relatively advanced when compared to the IoM's. Inquisitors (and the Mechanicum, should the Inquisitor deign to inform them ) can learn from technology of the Xenos (Yes yes, I know the Mechanicum is allergic to learning, but it's possible that splinter factions might be willing to learn to use the Xenos tech and in the process improve their own - thus potentially leading us down the path of Tek-Heresy) Although using Ork or Kroot tech would be rather pointless, since they are primitive in comparison. The only thing I see being a major issue is Necron tech. I haven't read the new Necron fluff, but using the older fluff as a reference, Necrons are almost as corrupting as Chaos, although on a smaller scale (Using Xenology as a reference here - Fantastic book if you haven't got it already ) Necron tech, and as Melissia says, any tech that would directly interface with your mind is the really "Dangerous" stuff, on a par I think with a Chaos taint, although some Necron tech has been reverse engineered by the Mechanicum (The C'tan Phase Sword as used by the Officio Assassinorium)


Well, that's my £0.02p - As a side note - this is an awesome thread

I think puritan Inquisitors are acutally more dangerous than mildly radical ones. I think for me once you start dabling in daemonancy you've gone too far.

Tibbsy wrote:

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:
1.) To any Pro-Xenos Tech person - what's wrong with dabbling in Chaos?

I'll take a stab at this one; The major difference between Xenos tech usage and attempting to use Chaos against itself is that Chaos, by it's very nature, is a corrupting influence. Even the smallest Chaos tainted artefact and the influences that can arise from them can have massive consequences. Inquisitors that mess with them, initially in the name of protecting the IoM can (and occasionally do) fall to Chaos, in some cases even outright worshipping that which they once sought to destroy. Even if they don't fall quite so far it's undeniable that the Chaotic influence can affect them in various ways.

For in-universe viewpoints, some would argue that Xenos-tech use is also inherently a corrupting influence since it is not STC technology and not sanctioned by the Omnissiah.

Likewise there are others that would argue that Chaos by itself is NOT inherently corrupting any more than use of psychic powers is inherently corrupting.

That is why there exists such a spectrum of viewpoints, because there is not hard known facts, only a string of anecdotal cases and empirical evidence (which some can dismiss as flawed or biased).

Beaviz81 wrote:Many Inquisitors of Ordo Xenos has Jokaroo as henchmen, and they ain't opposed to even use damonhosts against the xenos. As for radicalism I have thought little of it. Then again the Inquisitors in my fluff either serves as the bosses sending my protagonists to missions of outmust importance, or guys who are killed by the protagonists before they unleash something terrible.

But here's the rub, Jokearo are not sapient creatures.

They do not create cities, have language, or show any signs of intelligence.

They are literally an animal that creates highly sophisticated technology.


Jokearo live in space ships that just aimlessly drift around, occasionally landing on planets to harvest supplies. They will conduct raids for materials on human settlements but they are nothing different to a chimp troop raiding another chimp troops land for food.

Inquisitors find it desirable to tame a Jokearo family for the technical services they provide. Basically the inquisitor gives them supplies and the Jokearo accept him as one of their own. The Inquisitor then has access to Jokearo created and improved equipment, if the improvements are a little unpredictable.

In the first viewing of things, all that matters are the results.

Use daemonhosts, make pacts with daemons, summon daemons, butcher entire human worlds, whatever.

Doesn't matter.

All that matters are the results.

If you've summoned ten lesser daemons and banished an entire daemon host because of it, then fair play. Thats a net win.

HOWEVER!

Anyone who spends any amount of time dealing with the denizens of the Warp must have an adamantium will.

Because the power the daemons offer is infinite, and the temptation simply too strong for any normal man to resist. While you may believe you are in control, in reality you are the puppet.

Thats the real issue between radicals and puritans, at least as far as daemons are concerned. It's not an issue that what they are doing is wrong, it's that by taking advantage of the powers in the Warp, the Inquisitor himself will be corrupted and become an enemy agent.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:Melissia - your the only person on this thread who preached a caution toward Xenos Tech. Why would you consider the conditions you set up being conducive to "taint" (assuming that isn't Warp taint.

Because xenos artefacts which effect the mind or body tend to try to turn the being they're effecting in to a servant of the xenos race that they were created by.

Or even in to the race itself.

Melissia has hit the nail on the head here, in my opinion.

Yep, take a look at Valeria, A dagger that can make her hit herself and an Emerald that she could disappear into if she isn't careful