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Meh, better a pawn of a Xenos then the plaything of a daemon.

Grey Templar wrote:Meh, better a pawn of a Xenos then the plaything of a daemon.

Is it? Is it really?

I suppose Dark Eldar would be worse then Nurgle, but only just

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Meh, better a pawn of a Xenos then the plaything of a daemon.

Is it? Is it really?

:The Adeptus Ministorum scrivner stops transcribing for a second and steps out of the way. He had been warned by his superiors that not paying attention to one's environment during an inquisitorial conclave was one of those factors that led to the unfortunate high turn-over rate for his position.

Looking up at the odd collection of people, he could only blink. There was one walking around in oddly colored Terminator armor, another dressed in a Harlequin's HoloSuit and preaching about the goodness of "Friend Space Elf." He at least had the courtesy to set up shop at a corner of the Conclave - the other bloke running around in the Tau Battlesuit nearly stampeded the casual pedestrian.

It was in truth a collection of individuals playing around with forbidden artifacts, often commenting on how this or that little gizmo should be instituted and half-cursing the members of the Adeptus Mechancius for their short-sightedness.

Occassionally distrustful glances would be exchanged between the larger crowd and the small group on the right - the ones with the floating burning acolytes, enslaved Daemonettes, and their talking swords who would stare back with equal disdain.

Finding a spot next to one of the Conclave's pet monkeys, a group standing next to another Inquisitor's host of Kroot bodyguards and a human-insectoid prisoner strapped to a Halo Device, the scrivner returned to his work..

...and prayed to the God-Emperor that no one was foolish enough to invite Inquisitor Lord Fyodor Karamazov and this Throne of Judgment to this meeting. :




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Magpie wrote:Yep, take a look at Valeria, A dagger that can make her hit herself and an Emerald that she could disappear into if she isn't careful

Aaaaannndddd back to reality.

Valeria what?

Grey Templar wrote:Meh, better a pawn of a Xenos then the plaything of a daemon.

The difference between xenos and daemons is not necessarily as great as you think.

For a perfect example, look at the Enslavers, whom are basically xenos who live in the warp as pseudo-daemons.

This is about as radical as I can handle.

HERESY

Flip Flops will rot your soul!

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Meh, better a pawn of a Xenos then the plaything of a daemon.

The difference between xenos and daemons is not necessarily as great as you think.

For a perfect example, look at the Enslavers, whom are basically xenos who live in the warp as pseudo-daemons.

Well upon further contemplation, there has been a kind of uptick in the number of so-called "lesser" Xenos races that do kind of get slotted into the category of "Evil or Disturbing but not associated with Chaos."

The Slaugth from the Calixis Sector stick out in my mind the most. No connection to the warp, yet the "Maggot Men" possess very disturbing technologyadvanced weaponry.

The aracnoid Saruthi from the Eisenhorn trilogy could also fit that category - at least prior to their introduction to Chaos...

Then there are those races "Associated with the Warp, but not with Chaos" like the Hrud or the ever mysterous Fra'al.

Iracundus wrote:

For in-universe viewpoints, some would argue that Xenos-tech use is also inherently a corrupting influence since it is not STC technology and not sanctioned by the Omnissiah.

Likewise there are others that would argue that Chaos by itself is NOT inherently corrupting any more than use of psychic powers is inherently corrupting.

That is why there exists such a spectrum of viewpoints, because there is not hard known facts, only a string of anecdotal cases and empirical evidence (which some can dismiss as flawed or biased).

That's a fair point, some would definitely view things differently, most of the Mechanicus especially would definitely dislike the idea of Xenos-tech. But it has been known to reverse engineer Xenos-tech (Only example I can think of off the top of my head is, again, the C'tan Phase sword, but I'm sure there are others)

When it comes to the use of Psychic powers though, aren't they pretty much universally viewed as potentially corrupting? That's why Unsanctioned Psykers are (or can be) such a big problem, as they are potential gateways to Chaotic possesion. Sanctioned Psykers have to be Soul-Bound, to prevent corruption by Chaos. Even then, they are usually "shunned" as everyone seems to have a dislike towards Psychic powers.

Again, you are correct with there being a myriad of viewpoints (and that half of them being misleading )

Gotta say it again, fantastic thread OP, very interesting discussion

The only Radical I like is Apostatic radical, the non-belief in religions of any sort. Monodominancy too - no consorting with vile xenos.

So, basically the Logicians cult lol.

ContemplativeSphinx wrote:

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Meh, better a pawn of a Xenos then the plaything of a daemon.

Is it? Is it really?

:The Adeptus Ministorum scrivner stops transcribing for a second and steps out of the way. He had been warned by his superiors that not paying attention to one's environment during an inquisitorial conclave was one of those factors that led to the unfortunate high turn-over rate for his position.

Looking up at the odd collection of people, he could only blink. There was one walking around in oddly colored Terminator armor, another dressed in a Harlequin's HoloSuit and preaching about the goodness of "Friend Space Elf." He at least had the courtesy to set up shop at a corner of the Conclave - the other bloke running around in the Tau Battlesuit nearly stampeded the casual pedestrian.

It was in truth a collection of individuals playing around with forbidden artifacts, often commenting on how this or that little gizmo should be instituted and half-cursing the members of the Adeptus Mechancius for their short-sightedness.

Occassionally distrustful glances would be exchanged between the larger crowd and the small group on the right - the ones with the floating burning acolytes, enslaved Daemonettes, and their talking swords who would stare back with equal disdain.

Finding a spot next to one of the Conclave's pet monkeys, a group standing next to another Inquisitor's host of Kroot bodyguards and a human-insectoid prisoner strapped to a Halo Device, the scrivner returned to his work..

...and prayed to the God-Emperor that no one was foolish enough to invite Inquisitor Lord Fyodor Karamazov and this Throne of Judgment to this meeting. :

This is brilliant.

You make this up on the spot?

Hazardous Harry wrote:
This is brilliant.

You make this up on the spot?

Mhmm. That bit between you and Grey Templar popped an image in my head...

This thread may as well be an Inquisitorial conclave meeting. Or specifically a radical inquisitorial conclave meeting.

Practically all of you have assented to bending/breaking the rules or expressed dislike of the Puritain factions (except 1 guy. Goodbye Dissenter).

And so the image in my head were of the larger crowd of you playing around with Deactivated Wraithlords, ORKA BOMBAs, or Tau Drones - and with Melissia off to the side poking things with sticks and skeptically looking at the pieces of tech.

While on the "We play with Daemons" side of the hall we have Magpie and Shadox having several Daemonhosts screaming in pain and agony, Daemonic Weapons whispering "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD," and a variety of lesser servitors connected together by long chains pulled by a trio of blind archoflagellants. Magpie is obviously Fist Bumping a GK and looking at all of us going "What? What? It works!"

non-Purge:
friendly xenos (eg. eldar, tau, jokero)
non warp tainted xeno-tech
rad/other non warp mutants
sanctioned psykers
navigators

Purge
any non sanctioned warp touched being or item

It is heretical when it goes beyond the remit laid down by the God-Emperor, Himself.

Psienesis wrote:It is heretical when it goes beyond the remit laid down by the God-Emperor, Himself.

Every librarian ever is a heretic. Nice one.

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Every librarian ever is a heretic. Nice one.

Well, it's possible that the Emperor changed the ruling during (or even after) the Horus Heresy.

Or that he forbade sorcery but not psykers.

Melissia wrote:Or that he forbade sorcery but not psykers.

Well given that his first inclination when encountering John Grammaticus wasn't to rend him limb from limb you may be on to something...

Hazardous Harry wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:Meh, better a pawn of a Xenos then the plaything of a daemon.

Is it? Is it really?

Yes, but ideally one would rather be neither.

At the extremes of either end of the spectrum, it could be argued that both sides become "radical". It is almost like a loop rather than a linear spectrum. For example, the extremist Puritan views, as documented in the old Codex Witchunters, would have every psyker, Navigator, Librarian and Astropath destroyed and result in the collapse of the Imperium. The inability to accept any even slight deviation or flexibility from some unrealistic ideal standard and the wholesale destruction of populations and worlds in the name of purity can also end up hurting the Imperium far more than helping it.

Once you start summoning daemonhosts you can assume that eve fellow Xanthites are going to put a bullet trough your heretical head

When you think its a good idea to have the Tyranids and the orks fight on another.

hotsauceman1 wrote:When you think its a good idea to have the Tyranids and the orks fight on another.

The idea worked, it halted the Hive Fleet. It has done its job in giving the Imperium more time.

Buttons wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:When you think its a good idea to have the Tyranids and the orks fight on another.

The idea worked, it halted the Hive Fleet. It has done its job in giving the Imperium more time.

This is precisely why "Radicalism" keeps arising in the Inquisition. Often it does produce results when strictly "Puritan" methods fail.

Believing that the end justifies the means, regardless is a dangerous path to walk. IMO, you can walk down the path of Radicalism as far as is necessary, so long as that in doing so, you do not lose sight of the ideal you originally swore to protect.

Ordos Malleus: If by summoning a Daemon, you can destroy a far greater threat- thats fine. Summoning a Daemon for your own ends, is heresy.
Ordos Hereticus: You may use whatever Psychic weapons you have at your disposal, so long as by doing so, you serve the interests of mankinds greatest psyker- the Emperor. Power for power's sake is not to be encouraged.
Ordos Xenos: If by activating a Blackstone Fortress, you can wipe out a Tyranid fleet, saving countless systems, it is your duty to do so. Spreading Genestealer cults merely to undermine rival Inquisitors is unacceptable.

Radicalism is a difficult path to walk, but not inherently evil.

CadianXV wrote:Believing that the end justifies the means, regardless is a dangerous path to walk. IMO, you can walk down the path of Radicalism as far as is necessary, so long as that in doing so, you do not lose sight of the ideal you originally swore to protect.

The problem is this is an entirely subjective point which is why there is internal conflict within the Inquisition. The Radical will claim they still hold to their original ideal. The Puritan will claim they have been corrupted. The Radical will claim their daemonhost or use of Chaos weapons is so they can face a greater threat. The Puritan will claim this is an excuse for using such things for their own ends.

I'm pro-radical myself, up to the point of actual daemon summoning or sacrifice of humans to get xenos help, Daemonhosts I'm good with

All Inquisitors cross "the line" into heresy eventually, It's a case of how much good they do before that happens.

Hmm that's a bit tricky, well Sanctioned Psykers, Navigators, XenoTech, Psychopathic Mercs, Assassins - Thats all cool in my book.
On the other hand Deamonhosts, Xenos pirates and raiders, Deamonicly possessed weaponry, human sacrifice, sabotage of Imperial organizations and rival colleagues is too much.
Sanctioning Xenos or condemned criminals should be fine as long as the inquisitor is most assuredly in charge (not for instance used by the Eldar) as long as they aren't connected to Chaos or committed some sort of super-crime for example: Pirate leaders, terrorists, slavers, xeno worshipers or staging illegal fights to the death between people and smuggling xenos. But for instance freeing a skilled assassin out of jail to serve you is cool, or a merc who got caught taking the wrong job, or bagging an eldar ranger mid exploration.
But somebody who has killed numerous people and threatens the Imperium in some way should fall in to the other list, the "gak to kill" one, not in the "gak i need for my collection of miserable outcasts and psychopaths".

Iracundus wrote:At the extremes of either end of the spectrum, it could be argued that both sides become "radical". It is almost like a loop rather than a linear spectrum.

Maybe, but that's really just a logical fallacy, albeit a rarely used one compared to the more common strawman.