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Welcome to the tactical genus challenge. As we all know not all units in 40K are created equal. Some are highly competitive in even the most unskilled hands, whereas other are almost dead weight. So here is the challenge. Someone will post a so-called "uncompetitive" unit. Then someone takes up the challenge and offers a tactic or unit combination that would make that unit completive. Then to keep the challenge going they offer a new unit discussed. Consider it an exercise in tactical creativity and a chance to discuss unorthodox strategies.

I will go first, the first unit in the tactical genius challenge is (said in the voice from the host of the Iron Chef):

The Pyrovore!

Pyrovores: Counter Charge flamer templates vs. Hordes

Necron Doomsday Arc?

Triple Doomsday Arks placed at the backfield on a hill. Fire down upon enemy armour with impunity. And since when were they considered uncompetitive? They seem good to me on paper. I guess they don't fit into a Night Fighting list though.

Vespid.

Making uncompetitive units useful isn't about little tricks, though. Either a unit is competitive or it isn't. Sure, a lot of people think that a LOT of units aren't competitive, when they can be made as such, but it has everything to do with list composition, understanding their role in an army/codex, and refusing to underestimate their durability/killing power/etc. by open-mindedly approaching all the facts rather than taking a narrow view of them based on just a couple of variables.

None of this has to do with tactical genius on the field, really. I mean, what a unit is good against is usually pretty obvious, and how to play them is usually likewise rather straightforward.

In the case of vespid, I'm sure the answer has to do with how a person constructs their list, and their chosen playstyle, and their local meta.

Ok i got one Techpriest.

I've used the techpriest successfully in a mech build that I did not expect to get any orders out anyway. It fits ok with a mech build that depends on alot of movement like mech vet meltas and LR's. Not as useful for arty. Valks move too fast to be as effective but one time I had the techpriest ride in one with an air cav list where he sorta saved one immobilize. The techpriest is basically there to keep things moving and saves points from buying dozer blades for everything. If he can fix stunned, that'd be amazing.

Also of note, the techpriest is now a single HQ choice. You don't need to buy a company command squad anymore if you just want one HQ.

Also according to the RAW, it just says the techpriest can't shoot. I'm assuming that the servators that may be lugging plasma/melta/w/e can still fire if your squad basically stayed put. You lose BS4 from company command but gain templates with plasma cannons and multi-melta range. Bad part is that you can't buy a ride for them. Also costs more but gains better armor save.

Warning, despite the servo arms doing power weapon attacks and is strong, Don't expect much from them as a counter attacking unit. I've usually ended up assaulting them into some space marine equivilents and it's never worked out well. (curse thee blood angel assault squads)

How about nurglings and Beasts of Nurgle? I can't seem to find any use for them at all outside of an epidermis list and even then I can't really say they are worth using.

Nuuuuurglings!

Daemon player was spawning them by the bucket load and placing them infront of my units, using them as a tarpit before my orky advance.

Was infuriating, worked really well! For lists that are more mobile, however, can't speak for its effectiveness - but it's used in a daemon list that's done really well in the local competitive scene.

Hmmm... I know Weirdboyz apparently do really well with Nobz, and Tankbustas... so how about Flash Gits?

I would use them sorta like imperial guard vet squads. (I understand it would be very costly) Get a trukk or a battle wagon without the cannon upgrade so it remains opentopped and blast away. Maybe Have your KFF in a wagon and do a gun line close for cover. I don't have a ork codex so I don't know their specifics but with all the GK, BA, SW etc. marines around the chance for good ap is nice. Then when they close in, they are nobz so can fight in CC while your dedicated CC units come in.

Anyway maybe on actual ork player might have better advice.


....IG rough riders

portugus wrote: ... Ig Rough Riders

Counter-Charging Death Stars seems pretty effective atm. Wait for the unit to close near your blobs, then move out and charge 12". Power weapons on the charge is something most assault armies don't want to face.

Death Company, Thunder wolves, or even Terminators tend to melt underneath the hooves of the Riders...


Hmm.... Gun drone squadrons. (And no Tau puns...)

KplKeegan wrote:

portugus wrote: ... Ig Rough Riders

Counter-Charging Death Stars seems pretty effective atm.

Yeah, really effective. From reserve, they have a 24" threat range. If you're anywhere on my half of the board, prepare to get horsied by I5 power weapons.

I thought this thread would be about infiltrating Warhound Titans. Color me disappointed.

Kharrak wrote: so how about Flash Gits?

Flash gitz are not top performers. Thats the hard truth -- don't expect them to perform well in competitive games.
Now, if you are going to run flash gitz, this is how I would recommend doing it. In today's meta, you can use gitz to shoot GK troops or paladins to good effect.

Nobz with Mo Dakka
Gitz come with 'eavy armor, which puts them at the same cost as a Nob with the same armor. View the gitz to nobs as shoota boys to slugga boys. What do you do with shoota boys? You get them into assault! Gitz should be used the same way. Move up and unload your snazzguns as your moving forward. When your close enough, assault the other unit!

Bring da Boss
As your 'gitz will be assaulting, bringing a warboss with a PK is a great tide-turner, as your Gitz don't come with any klaws. The boss will also benefit from FNP as an added bonus.

Trimmin'z of da Gitz
The only real one worth a damn is the painboy, as it gives your unit FNP, which is very powerful on these models. They still go splat to high STR weapons, but survive a lot more vs. small arms fire and in assault.

While 'more dakka' seems appealing, the fact is that your increasing the average hits from ~3 to ~6. Given that you only have a 50% to get AP3 or lower, that is not really betting odds. Usually your 'gits will have 1-2 rounds of shooting before they are in assault. Your paying 50 points to kill ~3 MEQ is the way I look at it.

The other options skyrocket the cost of the gitz to quickly to really be valuable

Mo Ideaz
Got some Gitz models and don't want to play them. Use them as meganobs. Thier gun matches the TL shoota pretty well, and you can say they have force fields protecting them to give them the 2+ save. You also can custom some klaws onto them. They are 15 points more per model than gitz and a nice option if your stuck with the models.

Uncompetitive=honor guard

To me the seem like cannon fodder when I play against them.

what codex honor guard?

Ignore this post.

Honour guard are just bad assault termies. You load them up in a raider and aim them at infantry which lack power weapons.

I think chaos spawn might be the toughest unit to get any use out of.

Eidolon wrote:what codex honor guard?

Normal SM codex.

Do ICs count?
Mogul Kamir.

Testify wrote:Do ICs count?
Mogul Kamir.

His rage isn't a penalty on the turn he comes in off reserve, especially if the unit he wants to charge is on the ig half of the board.

Swooping hawks.

3 units of 5, yoyo them and annoy someone to death

ok next:


Mandrakes

Infiltrate them to prevent vendetta scouting/block infiltrations.

3 trygons and 1 tervigon, needing them to advance against long fangs. How do?