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Hi Guys,
I just got my first models today and was hoping you could give me some advice on building a Chaos Space Marine Army. I have never played before but I know some of the rules and am reading the codex and rulebook 5E right now. I am starting with 500 points and planning on upgrading it to 1500+ before too long. Today I bought a 10 man regular CSM squad, and I noticed it had a shitton of chainswords and some heavy weapons so I realized I should know exactly how the squad will fit in to an army list (of which I have none). I like the idea of a flying HQ, tough and dangerous troops, vehicles, and big guns. I don’t want to use bikes or spawn. Any advice would be appreciated, especially with pros and cons, considering I know nothing, so I can give it my own style of flavor. I am super exited to start painting my guys and getting them out on the battlefield. Thanks in advance

well if you want a flying HQ then you should use a deamon prince. I don't play chaos but my friend does. He likes to use a deamon prince and lords

Sorry can't help on list, I play sm. mabey running nurgle or khorn. Nurgle for a stronger unit, khorn has strong units. Khorn is close combat with Khorn beserkers and Nurgle has strong plage marines witha T of 5 (I think, don't have chaos codex)

Hope it helps

The CSM sprue has bolt pistols, chain swords and bolters because CSM have access to both. You just declare what weapon you're using. Upgrade weapon wise they should just have two specials i.e two plasmas, meltas or flamers.

Daemon Princes are good HQs, though been nerfed since warptime got FAQ'd. If you do take Princes then you should take two. I would consider a Tzeentch-Prince for some shooty.

Another good HQ is Kharn. I know he cannot fly, though he can make limbs fly

Tough troops you're looking at Plague Marines. Nothing is tougher troop wise than T5 feel no pain.

Big guns, Vindicators are pretty good, or Obliterators and Havocs for heavy fire power.

Hope tha helps.

wouldn't preds be ahrder hitting that Vindicators?

Depends as Vindicators can deal with elite troops and tough armour. Lascannons struggle against tough armour, best for weak armour and dakka-preds are cheap, but don't kill that much.

if you want i can give my opinion on EVERY UNIT in the chaos army

also i would see if i can use the chaos daemon codex because they are the same but would say these are my summoned daemon units instead like bloodletters and a blood thurster

You have come to the right place for chaos dakka dakka has alot of great admins and posters that are chaos like myself. The biggest thing people forget is
USE YOUR MAIN INFANTRY!!!!!!!
Alot of people forget how good these guys are.
Also I suggest going with a cultist god. I decided Nurgle because the family sort of thing he has but all are good, chaos is one big giant family so I will gladly call you cousin
On the other thing if you like straight forward play I suggest Khrone he is warlike and brutal with alot of meele. I made some non-bezerkers with the khorne heads for a friend so it shows they can be converted alot.
Slaanesh is a diffrent story, alot more of get in mid range of me and I will melt your flesh with sound. They are great at melee as well just not as hardy as zerkers.
Tzeentch ah yes I love my Rubric marines, They can run and shoot on the same turn but they dont get anyother weapons besdies bolters for infantry and thats not very fun.
Nurgle oh I love plagues they have feel no pain, great against dark eldar and even better when you use terminators with them. I am going to say one thing about plague marines though they are going to die of enemy fire because they will be magnets for shooting. Use them in a rhino and give one a power fist or a bile spewer (counts as a flamer just looks nurgle-ish)
If you dont go cultist all I say is try to stay away from black legion they are spammed and are not going to be very special with the new chaos legions codex. The undivided is able to take plagues, berzerkers, noise marines, and rubric marines but at the cost of a elite choice slot so not worth in my thoughts. I suggest that you also plonk 2-4 rhinos down put your guys in them and run around firing at the enemy. Very good. obliverators dont even touch them I field them because I like fluff and they either do great or terrible. Summoned daemons I am not sure if you can field anymore so not sure what to say. Start out with four boxes of your infantry (nurgle, khorne, undivided, slaanesh or tzeentch.) and a rhino as well as a chaos lord. Give him power weapon also and get them in the fray!.
On the money note chaos can be expensive because some of the units will be on the GW website that wreck the other guys army. (Like typhus for example I simply troll the poor dark eldar guy) If you go Tzeentch or slaanesh then you have to order online and its not bad but can get annoying if you want to build at that very minute. Once you have 1k points, if you want into a 2k game upgrade your troops and give them just extra stuff to fill up points. or you can just buy troops but thats if you dont mind spending. once you have enough troops get some termies plop them in a land raider and lt havoc with some havocs.
Hope this helps! I try this often and am working on a Slaanesh army right now with this trick seeya!

there is a list for slnesh that all your weapons can be switched for noise related thigns

That is a cool video. My advice to the OP.... I would go easy on painting too much stuff for now. There are a lot of rumors about a new chaos codex coming out and we're going to switch to sixth edition rules in the summer, so if you start now then everything will change right about the time you get done with everything! Personally I would wait until that new codex comes out and see what units are strong in it before I built my army. Nothing wrong with collecting the models now though while some of them are cheap.

ah so mabe its best to wait then just proxy with things you have (if any) or watch a few games where people play with chaos get some tips

I recently started a Slaanesh CSM army, so I'll give you some impressions I have.

1) Lords aren't that bad. I'm running an "incredibly bloated" Chaos Lord because I converted him, and like the way he looks.
(170) Chaos Lord- Mark of Slaanesh, Wings, Daemon Weapon, Combi Melta, Melta Bombs
He costs a bucket of points- even more then my Daemon Prince, but I've found that hes consistently been proving his worth as a distraction or throw away unit. What I mean by this is he'll usually start the game in a Rhino with one of the noise marines (because wings are cool like that) and later detach himself to make use of his Wings movement, and cause problems for my opponent.
Hes been consistent across opponents too, what it essentially comes down to is when he breaks off he creates a seperate threat, he has a good chance to shrug off a round of small arms fire, and heavy weapons trying to ID him aren't plugging into the prince and oblits. Hes too dangerous to Ignore and often he'll do some real damage before he goes down.

It should also be noted that Chaos Marines are an all around army. You'll have trouble building an unstoppable assault army- especially when up against Nids and GKs, and you will always be outgunned by IG and Tau.

What this means is that you bring an all around force, and force your opponent to play to their weakness. Plan to move in quickly and assault with as much as possible against Guard and Tau, or plan to outshoot armies like Orks or even GKs. I've been playing Emporer's children so at 1000 points I've been taking 2 squads of Noise Marines, Prince, Lord, and 3 single Oblits. My fourth game with the army was against a crowe + purifiers army, and what I actually discovered was that I had the shooting advantage. It may not look like it at first, but when you consider it, GKs don't have a lot of weapons capable of punching through 3+ armour, whereas my army has ALOT of weapons capable of the same. Blast Masters are s8 ap3 blasts, the s5 ap3 flamer from the doom siren, and the 3 plasma cannons / tl plasma guns from the obliterators, also my Lord and Daemon Prince can both swing simultaneously with Halberds. What it ultimately came down to was the GK player underestimated the amount of damage I could cause to his purifiers and his troops were shot off the table.

Chaos pays a lot for their versatility, you need to know the strenghts and weakness of your army and build a balanced list. If you play well chaos still has the tools that they need to win. Even if you build a fluffier list. Also remember that even though you are playing a balanced army, you still need to force the opponent to play your game. Don't only react to what your opponent is doing, try to make your opponent react to you. For example I know that my best bet against Space Marines is in Close Combat, so from the beginning I'll try to close in and get fighting, whereas against Tyranids I'll fighting withdraw, pumping shots into him, then trying to get him to move into MY charge range and counter charge.

Honestly this is what worries me about Khorne dedicated armies. Berzerkers are great in assault, nobody can deny that, but they lack the shooting capacity that chaos needs right now. A Zerker army will get scythed apart in close combat by GK Halbreds, or assault oriented Tyranids or even Wolfstar and you'll fight to a Stalmate against pain token Wytches. And because of the lack of versatility the Khornate army is easier to foil. As a Power Armour army, its just nearly impossible to out specialize xeno or more codex creeped up marine codexes, and if you limit the ways you have to kill opponents too drastically you can find yourself between a rock and a hard place.

Thanks for all your help, everyone

@ mercer

How does declaring work? Do you mean if a unit has a chainsword and a plasma pistol i can say which one he is using, or can i say he is using a bolter even if there is not one on the model? I believe the set came with 2 flamers (one might be a meltagun) , a heavy bolter and a plasma gun. Can I put those on models and just say they are using regular bolters if needed?


@ jbsnv

Your analysis would be awesome, but i would also like to focus on a 500 point army list cause I am staring at my unassembled models right now and really want to figure out what I should do. However, I am not so hot on the monsters or noise just cause I think the marines and their guns are super badass. I might make some noise marines someday with a bit of a theme, like I could make them look like Bootsy Collins and Parliament or go dubstep raver punk or something just for fun


@ Nurgle

Hey Cuz i think you are right and I should go with nurgle for the beastly toughness. I would like to use berserkers eventually but am I limited to which units I can use based on my god? I would also like to invent my own chapter for the back story or is there some big disadvantages to doing that? I am not so worried about money just because if you really like a hobby its usually worth the investment, just like I used to draft MTG twice a week.

@ Meade

While I respect your realistic outlook, I am unfortunately going to have to go the short term route due to my situations. I am being stationed far in the north to fight wildfires this season so I will be far away from anyone to play with so I am okay with revising the army later when I can find out how it has changed. For example, I just traded a Revised Bayou for 4 Seachrome Coasts so that's how financially stupid I am being at the moment.

@ akaean

What did you convert the lord from? I realize that balance is the name of the game, which is why I am trying to get as much advice as possible. The way I plan it is that once I can get a 500 point army together I can start playing and talking to people at the game stores to get more perspective on larger armies. That means that I just would like the 500 point army to have units I can use in a larger one. Based on what I have read it looks like people use two squads, two rhinos and a lord a lot, but my main problem is knowing how to assign points to units and upgrades. Where do you draw the line where you would rather have more units than more upgrades? What is a fluffy army list? I am also trying to go for variety in my army with some plague marines and berserkers for instance.

ok ill give you my 2 wit into every unit in chaos army when i come back form playing as daemons in a few games

theseeker707 wrote:

@ Meade

While I respect your realistic outlook, I am unfortunately going to have to go the short term route due to my situations. I am being stationed far in the north to fight wildfires this season so I will be far away from anyone to play with so I am okay with revising the army later when I can find out how it has changed. For example, I just traded a Revised Bayou for 4 Seachrome Coasts so that's how financially stupid I am being at the moment

Sounds like an opportunity to get some painting done!


In that case I would grab some plague marines, or just proxy your normal troops as plague marines (if they are all that way nobody will care) and keep them in 5-6 man squads with two meltaguns each, in rhinos. Some people paint everybody with a decaying, nurgle paintjob and use the nurgle champion parts, or you can do like me and make bionic troops that have all bionic limbs and stuff and count as plague marines. It's great for small point games. Then get some obliterators. I sell them by the way They are pretty much the most badass troop you can get, and they have big guns, and an auto-include for small point games because you can put them where you want them with deepstrike, and they can fulfill multiple roles.

Pro tips :
- Obliterators are awesome.
- 1 rhino / squad. Transports are king.
- Meltas are you best TAC bet.
- Obliterators are awesome.
- The lash power (be in on a DP or a sorcerer) is very good, especially to get a squad out of cover in front of a obliterators.
- Get a PF / squad, or meltabombs if needed
- Did I mention obliterators ?

I've decided on an army list for now, tell me what you think

1 Daemon Prince w/ Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Warptime

1 Aspiring Champion with Powerfist, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs
4 Chaos Space Marines with Meltagun

1 Aspiring Champion with Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Meltabombs
4 Chaos Space Marines with Flamer

1 Rhino, no upgrades

500 points all filled up. I like this list because of the beastly fast and brutal HQ, the powerful squads with lots of special equipment, and the transport. I can see a fast assault would be killer, but I could also use the rhino for cover and jump in with the Prince for a more defensive holdout. I think this would be fun for my first army since there is a little bit of everything and could be competitive to a certain degree. How could I improve it? Ive heard that the Lash pisses people off cause it is cheesy or OP or something, so i would rather make new friends than win in a lot of cases. If i took it out i could go with Winds of Chaos or something. Even so, the lash looks like a lot of fun.

theseeker707 wrote:I've decided on an army list for now, tell me what you think

1 Daemon Prince w/ Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission, Warptime

1 Aspiring Champion with Powerfist, Combi-Melta, Meltabombs
4 Chaos Space Marines with Meltagun

1 Aspiring Champion with Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Meltabombs
4 Chaos Space Marines with Flamer

1 Rhino, no upgrades

500 points all filled up. I like this list because of the beastly fast and brutal HQ, the powerful squads with lots of special equipment, and the transport. I can see a fast assault would be killer, but I could also use the rhino for cover and jump in with the Prince for a more defensive holdout. I think this would be fun for my first army since there is a little bit of everything and could be competitive to a certain degree. How could I improve it? Ive heard that the Lash pisses people off cause it is cheesy or OP or something, so i would rather make new friends than win in a lot of cases. If i took it out i could go with Winds of Chaos or something. Even so, the lash looks like a lot of fun.

-the lash prince is great and all, but I would drop warptime. I don't think you can even take it legally he can only take one psychic power. Using lash is sort of a crapshoot, since you might be facing an enemy that is all in transports and you only have one melta to pop them... they might have psyker defense like psychic hoods, etc. Also you dont really have the heavy weapons that usually are used in combo with lash, like plasma cannons or large blast templates. I really would consider taking mark of nurgle on him then no bolters or small arms fire could really hurt him, and he would be a beast. Then just slap doombolt on him for a few extra shots...

The troops are okay, but with only one rhino at least one squad will just get shot or be utterly useless. Shooting kills two guys from that squad and you have to take leadership tests, and you are that much closer to your precious powerfist running off the board.

for 500 pts, I think you can easily have one six man squad of plague marines with two meltas (preferable) or a melta and a flamer, and another 5 man minimum squad of CSM's with an icon of glory and a melta, to hang out and support or capture an objective, both riding in rhinos. and a daemon prince with mark of nurgle and doombolt, or mark of khorne and wings (which might not be so bad for a 500 pt game).

500 pts is also a really small game. you should look up combat patrol missions rules, it's rules made especially for 500 pt games.

Okay, now I am looking at this

DP with Wings and Mark of Khorn, because I figure he will go after the heavy weapons that could kill him first, and would want to take them out fast.

7 Plague Marines w/ 1 Meltagun and 1 Flamer, because i want to see what they can do

5 CSM w/ Chaos Glory and Plasmagun, for light armor and I want to see what they can do

2 Rhinos

I was thinking of getting a Plague Champion for meltabombs, but i dont know how useful they are. Ive got 14 extra points, would the Rhinos benefit from that at all?

a new codex is comming out in 2 months, you might as well NOT play and NOT buy anything, because in 2 months it will all be irrelevant.

Please refer to my reply to meade a few posts up because I cant really wait two months to start playing. Also, does the WYSIWYG rule apply to grenades? I dont like the skirt things they are attached to.

theseeker707 wrote:Okay, now I am looking at this

DP with Wings and Mark of Khorn, because I figure he will go after the heavy weapons that could kill him first, and would want to take them out fast.

7 Plague Marines w/ 1 Meltagun and 1 Flamer, because i want to see what they can do

5 CSM w/ Chaos Glory and Plasmagun, for light armor and I want to see what they can do

2 Rhinos

I was thinking of getting a Plague Champion for meltabombs, but i dont know how useful they are. Ive got 14 extra points, would the Rhinos benefit from that at all?

Yeah that's way better. I think you could fit a plague champ with a powerfist in there... that would round out their close combat effectiveness. You can drop one or two plague marine, drop the plasmagun or icon for a flamer/melta (they are only good for plague marines to use anyway because they get hot). Keep in mind a powerfist is better than meltabombs, you get three attacks instead of one and they will usually pen anyway since it's probably rear armor. A meltabomb is only useful on a land raider pretty much. If you are over by 5 points or something chances are your opponent wont care... or can just add on a dozer blade or something. its a 500 pt game after all. You really want that powerfist in there with those plague marines, that way they would rock in any close combat.

HQ:
Daemon Prince (110) w/ Wings (20) and Mark of Khorne (10) = 140
Troops:
Plague Marines 5x (138) w/ Meltagun (10) and Plasmagun (15) = 163
Plague Champion (38) w/ Powerfist (25) = 63
Chaos Space Marines 5x (75) w/ Meltagun (10) = 85
Rhino 2x = 70

TOTAL = 498 points


I would like to use a flamer with the CSM but would they be useful without the meltagun? Would it be bad to get them in close with the flamer or would they get chewed up fast, especially since they have no inspiring icon or champion? If I did get 5 extra points, would a personal icon be useful over meltabombs and does the WYSIWYG rule apply to grenades and meltabombs?

theseeker707 wrote:HQ:
Daemon Prince (110) w/ Wings (20) and Mark of Khorne (10) = 140
Troops:
Plague Marines 5x (138) w/ Meltagun (10) and Plasmagun (15) = 163
Plague Champion (38) w/ Powerfist (25) = 63
Chaos Space Marines 5x (75) w/ Meltagun (10) = 85
Rhino 2x = 70

TOTAL = 498 points


I would like to use a flamer with the CSM but would they be useful without the meltagun? Would it be bad to get them in close with the flamer or would they get chewed up fast, especially since they have no inspiring icon or champion? If I did get 5 extra points, would a personal icon be useful over meltabombs and does the WYSIWYG rule apply to grenades and meltabombs?

flamers are good for keeping units off objectives, not keeping objectives. Also it depends on what you're playing against, but usually a meltagun is a sure bet. that squad can just drive around in the rhino and harass or grab an objective. A personal icon (on the plague marines?) is useless because you have nothing deepstriking that can use it. and like I said with a powerfist meltabombs is not really necessary, but if you got 5 pts extra why not. But if you are attacking any tank with rear armor 10, just use the powerfist, you get three attacks which pen on 3+. Unless the tank is immobilized. I rarely see WSIWYG meltabombs it is kind of like having a bolter and bolt pistol and close combat weapon at the same time, people rarely model that.

What is the difference from keeping units off objectives, as opposed to keeping objectives? I thought that you would keep units off by keeping the objectives. When the marines get into close combat, do i have to decide if they use a combat knife or a chainsword? Also, since the Daemon Prince has no ranged attack, would it be useful to trade the MoK for Doombolt, or would he have to choose between attacking cc and shooting?

Smitty0305 wrote:a new codex is comming out in 2 months, you might as well NOT play and NOT buy anything, because in 2 months it will all be irrelevant.

Maybe Smitty, Maybe. While its true that a lot of what will be good now, may not be optimal in several months, I can confidently say that there *will* be price hikes. Things like CSM are obviously going to be in the new codex, same goes for Daemon Princes? maybe? I dunno. The point is, its cheaper to get stuff now than it will be later, might as well have fun with it while it lasts.

I'll bet money that there are Rhinos, Marines, and even Princes in the next codex!

theseeker707 wrote:What is the difference from keeping units off objectives, as opposed to keeping objectives? I thought that you would keep units off by keeping the objectives. When the marines get into close combat, do i have to decide if they use a combat knife or a chainsword? Also, since the Daemon Prince has no ranged attack, would it be useful to trade the MoK for Doombolt, or would he have to choose between attacking cc and shooting?

-by 'keeping units off objectives' I mean some enemy on the other side of the board that's in cover around an objective, a flamer is useful to deny their cover save sometimes. And, it's useful against hordes if you are playing orks or something. the five man unit of CSM's is weaker so they stay on your side of the board, or middle board and defend or counter, while the plague marines and daemon prince go on the attack. Because of it's short range the flamer is more of an assaulty aggressive weapon and not a defensive weapon.

-chainsword or combat knife, it doesn't really matter the rules say they have one CC weapon. Doesn't matter how you model it.

-With mark of khorne and wings the daemon prince has range to his movement and assault, that's what makes him dangerous, very good against tanks because he gets extra D6 for armor pen. A doombolt is just extra shots for ten points, it's not really necessary. But mark of Nurgle is useful if you want to trade that for the wings, doombolt goes with that because he's slower and really tough. He can always shoot and assault as long as he assaults what he shot at.

I tend to post this link whenever anyone's looking for an overview on how to field an army. Its pretty frank on what units are good and what's not and I'd recommend you read it if your wanting to know your way around each unit (including Imperial Armour ones). The humour make these my favourite tacticas out there. ^^

yeah i forgot to mention, better take the plasma gun out of the plague squad, since they will probably be assaulting and if you fire it, you are not allowed to assault. maybe replace it with a flamer if you like or melta's fine. It's best used on mid-field or defensive plague marines (that hang back and stay on your own objective or base), or on your regular squad hanging back there if you are feeling risky.

I just wanted to throw in a very general thing that has somewhat been covered already. Obviously, the new codex is coming & then the whole basic ruleset will change, but right now there are two categories of stuff players who want to win take. This might not be your style, you might care more about the models or just trying out a lot of things, but for now there are

-ALWAYS-

Daemon princes with wings - often also has lash of submission, almost never has mark of khorne for some reason
Plague marines - usually in 5-6 man squads with two of the same special weapon (usually meltas, sometimes flamer squads for every two to three melta units) and a rhino
Obliterators - generally as many as you can fit, their small blast plasma cannons (or twinlinked flamer if you're feeling daring & deepstriking a unit into enemy territory) synergize very well with the lash of submission's ability to pull enemies out of cover & group them close together

-SOMETIMES-

Chaos marines - some people use them instead of plague marines, some swear by them, but it's definitely not as unanimous as the plaguies. These guys are usually either 10 men with two of the same special weapon (again, usually meltas) in a rhino or five guys & maybe a special weapon who just sit on the home objective.
Berzerkers - 8-10 guys with a rhino (or every once in a while, a powerful special character like Kharn the Betrayer or Abbadon in a land raider). Powerfist champ, no special weapons, kept in the transport as long as possible so they don't rage and chase a landspeeder away from where you want them to be
Chaos terminators - the power build is three guys, three of the same combi-weapon (say it with me, usually meltas), they deep strike next to a target, fire their combis, then often get massacred the following enemy turn. This is usually known as termicide.
Chosen - five guys with all meltas or two flamers & three meltas in a rhino, try to outflank & kill something hiding on the sides or back of your enemy's territory.
Dreads + defilers. There's a build which probably isn't championship quality but looks really fun called monster mash. Two daemon princes, three dreads, three defilers, usually plaguies or rhino marines as troops. Once in a while a greater daemon. All your monstrosities run towards the enemy and rip into them while you make unintentional roaring and smashing sound effects under your breath.

-NEVER-

Everything else. Yes, even those awesome looking possessed marines (you can always buy the kit & distribute the cool bots throughout the army or use them as unit champions).

Remember, this is what most of the powergamers recommend. Not every single one of them agrees with this, either. You might not want to seem like someone who tries to win at all costs, maybe you care more about being true to the background fiction than winning, maybe you don't like these models, or you'd like to earn your victories with lesser known options. As I've said, everything will be changing inside of six months, but the good thing is you can use your Black Reach snap together marines that sell for cheap on eBay for this. Just convert the marines to plague marines (rusty paint job? model on bloating and pustules?) , the terminators to obliterators, and, if you're feeling especially creative, perhaps you could try and turn the dreadnought into some kind of flying cyborg daemon prince.

I hope I haven't overloaded you with information or hijacked your thread, it's just information that took me a while to find. Now go forth and kill with a smile on your face.

Darth badguy speaks truth. Listen to the toilet.