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Howdy all,

So today I've been pondering over Lychguard... I've noticed a few people having some good success with them, and have been pondering possibly using some til Wraiths get a kit. With that said, heres the pro's and cons of both in my eyes:

Wraiths

Pros
- 2 wounds
- Immune to terrain
- 12" move
- Str 6 w/ rending
- Dependable, large threat range, can DS in
- Whip Coils, wound allocation
- Fearless
- 3+ invun

Cons
- Cost 45 pts to give one a whip coil, and you need multiple in a unit to be effective
- Rely on rending to take down other elite units
- Marine stats other than str
- Instagibbable
- No RP
- Most likely going to be a $50 plastic set, so you'll need at least 2 for a unit

Overall thoughts: Wraiths are seen by many to be the ultimate assault unit in the codex, and I tend to agree. However, they struggle greatly against some things (FnP marines come to mind) unless you roll well, and many lists pack enough firepower that if your dice abandon you you'll be losing models left and right. The 3+ invun, combined with 2 wounds each, high str, and the fact you will ALWAYS get an 18" threat range make for a mean unit. They can hold their own in many situations, but I do find they get tarpitted easily against other deathstars (at least in my experience). These fill a great counter assault niche crons need, as well as contribute to 'crons ability to keep pushing forward and relentlessly pounding opponents. Its hard to find fault in this unit!

Lychguard

Pros
- Str 7/5 power weapons
- All warscythes is pretty scary!
- Shields can do a lot of damage with good rolls
- T5 with a 3+ save is tough to crack when combined with RP!
- Synergise very well with other units in the dex (Nemesor especially)
- Many see them as a "soft" unit so may ignore them til its too late
- Cheap kit to build a unit ($33!)

Cons
- Expensive to buy, even more expensive to increase survivability
- No transports
- Need to pay for a tek and orb to further increase effectiveness, dragging the cost up quite a bit
- No base invun means paying terminator prices for a unit thats not really more survivable against more common firepower

Overall thoughts: So I have yet to use lychguard, however a common player in my FLGS likes them. Combined with Immotekh, hes used them to good effect, defeating opponents like Mechguard buy slogging through there firepower with a 4+ RP and shields and then tackling units. My issue with them: they're sooooo expensive. For a unit of 5 guard w/ shields is 225 pts. Without the option to mix weaponry, you lose out on scythes to buy a 4++. Combine this with lack of mobility (you need 60 pts for a veiltek), and the fact you'll want an orb to further increase their chances to see combat (65 pts for a base orblord), your looking at a good chunk of change for a unit. However, an all power weapon unit that can clobber most things it touches can be pretty potent. I especially love the idea of nemesor with a unit of 7 guard and a veiltek. Veil into a forest or something and give them stealth for a 3++. Once they live through the barrage aimed their way, come out swinging giving them FC and having a unit of I3, Str 8 pw's! pretty potent if you ask me.

So whos used these units? How do they work for you? What doesn't work for you?

I've used to lychguard to fine effect against everything but wraiths.
A whole squad of troops with power weapons and invulns makes a powerful weapon against anything that doesn't have a lot of invuln saves.
Yeah, they are expensive, and I'd highly recommend a orb to go with them, a veiltek also is good, but they usually make their points up in kills (usually)

I have only played against my friends lychguard. He plays a foot necron army, so they are actually one of his more mobile elements due to the teleport. I find them absolutely terrifying. To date I have killed the unit once. It took two tricked out razorwings completely blowing their load, a ravager, and even then I had to assault with two squads of wyches. I honestly think it is the most terrifying close combat unit in the game. Not "op", but excellent at what it does. Difficult to shoot, difficult to assault. Not something that can be ignored.

Ghawhaar wrote:I have only played against my friends lychguard. He plays a foot necron army, so they are actually one of his more mobile elements due to the teleport. I find them absolutely terrifying. To date I have killed the unit once. It took two tricked out razorwings completely blowing their load, a ravager, and even then I had to assault with two squads of wyches. I honestly think it is the most terrifying close combat unit in the game. Not "op", but excellent at what it does. Difficult to shoot, difficult to assault. Not something that can be ignored.

Thats some good feedback! Were they sword/board or scythes?

I don't think they directly compete enough for a vs thread. They're similar points and both close combat focused but one is a hunter seeker type unit your opponent has to shoot or you'll scalpel apart something important and one is an interference runner unit who controls space making sure nothing gets where it wants to go without getting through them. They don't even fight for force org slots, you can take both or either or neither.

Actinium wrote:I don't think they directly compete enough for a vs thread. They're similar points and both close combat focused but one is a hunter seeker type unit your opponent has to shoot or you'll scalpel apart something important and one is an interference runner unit who controls space making sure nothing gets where it wants to go without getting through them. They don't even fight for force org slots, you can take both or either or neither.

While your points are valid, most people see them as competing. Crons counter-assault style units are EXPENSIVE, and both are capable of doing horrendous damage, but I'm looking for others experiences using either unit. Obviously Wraiths are far more popular.

Honestly its an either-or for most lists as they both soak up a ton of points. You COULD run 2 lych units and 2 wraiths, but that alone would be 800+ points without the support units both require.

My friend runs them with the shields. I think that is better because it discourages shooting anything ap 1-3, since they can bounce it back and hit your own units with it.

they don't directly compete, but they are similar as stated above, and a ton of points. The issue with running both is that if they are dealt with you have nothing left.

I generally see Wraiths as more aggressive, I use them to actively hunt enemy CC units (usually with an attached Destroyer Lord).
Lychguard are more defensive, they discourage shooting and deny easy movement because they are just too much a threat, I use them to smack anything that comes near my warriors.

It's apples and oranges really, they are both CC units but geared for different jobs.

Push comes to shove, the Lychguard get benched, I just like the speed of the Wraiths more.

Don't forget wraths don't get RP.

It's easy:

Lychguard = Anvil
Wraiths = Hammer

I haven't used Wraiths yet but I will say, there are most likely going to a Necrons player first option for fielding a CC unit.
The reason? Its all down to their speed, movement is key. Added to that fact, there have a better inv. save (+3), rending, would allocation 5 pts per model cheaper and ignore Terrain tests. It fit the Necrons short range shooting by either posing as a threats by taking many shots that would be used to weaken your troops or engaging the enemy army in assault giving the necrons time to get into effective range.

The Lychguard fill a different role. While not as 'in your face by turn 2' scary CC unit they shouldn't be underestimated. They can be used a walking wall of cover that can take hits and still crush enemy units when they hit there lines. The role I think they were intend to be played is a defensive unit, guarding the Necron lines. I tend to use them in the this fashion and they have been utterly decisive in clearing out the enemy units in my area.

I feel Sword and Board Lychguard are far better than War scythes for the inv. save (+4). You can add up to 2 Lords if you want War scythes plus get other war gear to benefit the unit. HoStorm with Lighting Field can be added for a counter attack. 2 (3 on the charge) S 5 power weapon hits + Royal Court can ruin most units day.

Could you use both units in your list? I can see the merit in this approach, the Wraiths hold down the enemy army, while the Lychguard make there way up add there crushing hits, the old Hammer and Anvil. This is a lot of point in your army so if you mess it up or the dice gods don't approve it can go badly.

I personally see them fitting different themes.

Wraiths are far more aggresive. They have a great movement rate that is never slowed down and have a host of great stats and rules. They seem to fit well with a fast moving alpha strike list (jy2's MTO or my Scythe list). Overwhelm your opponent with too many threats.

Lychguard on the other hand are slow, pack a punch and are also really resilient thanks to T5, 3+save, 4+ invulnerable (which can deflect) and reanimation protocols. Crypteks and Lords can then be added to give further buffs. I see these guys working better as counter-assault behind a silver tide/ AV13 list. Push slowly with everything, wait until something assaults and crush the threat utterly with the Lychguard.

My guess is (and I know I am guilty of it too) that Wraiths are far easier too use and so Lychguard are inevitably put on the shelf. I can see how with some experience they can be used to great effect though.

Lukus83 wrote:My guess is (and I know I am guilty of it too) that Wraiths are far easier too use and so Lychguard are inevitably put on the shelf. I can see how with some experience they can be used to great effect though.

I'm glad to see more lists utilizing them that way (counter assault) nowadays, though. They seemed like such a cool unit that it was a shame to see them shelved.
...
Praetorians, though, ugh, no thank you. I use their heads and rod-ends for custom Crypteks, while the Lychguard get the bodies (and sword+shields).

Nakor The BlueRider wrote:HoStorm

do i see a nikki minaj unit coming out in warhammer 40k wit a special rule called HO-STORM!!!!

anyway the trademark assult unit the hammernator is worse than the sword and board in my opinion because

1. the hammernator has effectively has to deal with 2 saves where as it only has one its self, as both weapons ignore armour saves. this means that less units will die at the end of each turn so a war of attrition can be applied to one of the toughest units in the game

2. the gaurds can deflect hits onto attacking unit. you can VOD in behind a vindicator and pop it during its own turn then completely destroy it if need be if you have a nemesor

3. they can provide highly resilient moving cover for softer units

4. i have seen a squad of 5 sword and board guard with a nemesor with res orb survive a 4 turn advance without cover through a hail of fire from a 1500 point mech IG army and come out the other side having only lost 2 units. this ability to withstand that much punishment can make them highly annoying as well as dangerous and distract ones opposition from destroying what should be destroyed like the scarab swarms, devastating to tanks, and anything else given enough numbers.

5. when used in conjunction with wraiths they are heavyly armoured and will be able to pop even the most heavyly armoured squads

Simple. Take both Lychguard w/scythes are overkill,if there is such a thing, which, as an american, I don't believe in, but if it does exist, lychguard w/scythes are it. I mean c'mon, 10 str7 attacks that ignore armor AND roll 2D6 to pen? Thats just silly. Such a fearsome sight makes the unit priority number one and without the 4++ they will be cut to pieces, use the scythes when(if?) we get the nightscythe model. Use the shields for distraction/extra toughness, the 10(15 on charge) str 5 power weapon attacks is more than enough, plus a combat lord w/scythe, mss and orb will make them unstoppable. ^ A unit like that of mine held 2x 30man squads of orkz(and nobs w/klaws) in a pass for 6 turns, I lost 2 models, my friend lost 35...

Exalted Pariah wrote:Simple. Take both Lychguard w/scythes are overkill,if there is such a thing, which, as an american, I don't believe in, but if it does exist, lychguard w/scythes are it. I mean c'mon, 10 str7 attacks that ignore armor AND roll 2D6 to pen? Thats just silly. Such a fearsome sight makes the unit priority number one and without the 4++ they will be cut to pieces, use the scythes when(if?) we get the nightscythe model. Use the shields for distraction/extra toughness, the 10(15 on charge) str 5 power weapon attacks is more than enough, plus a combat lord w/scythe, mss and orb will make them unstoppable. ^ A unit like that of mine held 2x 30man squads of orkz(and nobs w/klaws) in a pass for 6 turns, I lost 2 models, my friend lost 35...

Honestly, at this point, I'm very much considering using a unit of guard w/ shields to guard my warrior squads while my CCB's, barges, and wraiths are my forward pushing force.

The list in the OP doesn't mention the fact that Wraiths can play wound allocations games.