Cover/line of sight for Nids

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**ruminator**

Sure it's been covered before but can't get a good match on search.

Rules on what counts for LOS/cover etc seems clear on infantry and tanks - in that aerials etc don't count - you need to see more than a weapon barrel etc - but not sure how this really pans out for Nids.

For instance, if you can only see the crest on a zoanthrope and none of the torso can it really be shot?
How do tails count - if only the tail is sticking out and no torso can be seen is that enough?
For MCs, where does the 50% start/finish - are we talking tails/talons/chimneys etc?

Any thoughts?

**sirlynchmob**

ruminator wrote:Sure it's been covered before but can't get a good match on search.

Rules on what counts for LOS/cover etc seems clear on infantry and tanks - in that aerials etc don't count - you need to see more than a weapon barrel etc - but not sure how this really pans out for Nids.

For instance, if you can only see the crest on a zoanthrope and none of the torso can it really be shot?
How do tails count - if only the tail is sticking out and no torso can be seen is that enough?
For MCs, where does the 50% start/finish - are we talking tails/talons/chimneys etc?

Any thoughts?

pg 16 covers this. tails and wings don't count, you have to see the head, torso, legs and/or arms.

**ruminator**

Still though, where does the tail begin/end? Are those chimneys on the MCs back considered part of the torso?

**Lordhat**

Please bear in mind that I'm not attacking you with these statements.

ruminator wrote:Still though, where does the tail begin/end?

This is just somebody being pedantic. Everybody knows what a tail is and where it begins and ends.

Are those chimneys on the MCs back considered part of the torso?

This is really a matter of opinion, and needs to be discussed with your opponent. I personally think the chmineys on certain Tyraninds are ornamental, others may not.

**Deadshot**

Can I jump.on the back.of this too as it relates directly to this?

If all I can see of a Nid is a rending claw, can I claim LOS? A rending claw is a weapon so is not eligible for LOS but is also part of the body. Which takes precedence? The being body or being a weapon?

**Happyjew**

Aren't most of the rending claws just over-sized "hands" and as such still do not qualify for LoS purposes?

**Deadshot**

Depends on what qualifies as part of the arm. A lot of players I know count hands as an extension of the arm. Assuming that both players agreed that hands and feet were targetable due to being limb extensions, how would.it go?

**ruminator**

Lordhat wrote:Please bear in mind that I'm not attacking you with these statements.

ruminator wrote:Still though, where does the tail begin/end?
This is just somebody being pedantic. Everybody knows what a tail is and where it begins and ends.

Are those chimneys on the MCs back considered part of the torso?
This is really a matter of opinion, and needs to be discussed with your opponent. I personally think the chmineys on certain Tyraninds are ornamental, others may not.

Pedantic and tournament play go hand in hand I'm afraid! Had a few grey ones recently where being the decent sort I let them go ahead and shoot but it didn't feel right.

As for tails - try looking at a trygon. With no legs as it wevaes about like a snake it's arguably all tail!

Chimneys on MCs do add about an inch of height to most of them and this can make a difference.

**Grakmar**

ruminator wrote:As for tails - try looking at a trygon. With no legs as it wevaes about like a snake it's arguably all tail!

Anything below it's head and above it's tail is clearly torso and is target-able. The difference between a torso and a tail is that the torso has the vital organs in it, and the tail doesn't.

It makes sense for the vital organs to have added protection, so I'd suggest that the torso/tail line is right where those armor plates stop on it's underbelly. Anything above that is targetable, anything below is not.

**nkelsch**

Deadshot wrote:Depends on what qualifies as part of the arm. A lot of players I know count hands as an extension of the arm. Assuming that both players agreed that hands and feet were targetable due to being limb extensions, how would.it go?

I have seen people claim ands and feet are not part of the arms and legs. The thing is, I only need to see .000000001% of the approved parts to shoot which makes it very hard to claim zero LOS when your hands tails and all other parts are waving in the air as at some point the hand attaches to the arm and the tail attaches to the torso so the argument becomes 'how much' do you need to see.