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I bought a massive collection of chaos units that I've been slowly restoring over the last few months. Unfortunately I don't have limitless funds, so the advice of BUY OBLITERATORS, WHAT ARE YOU DOING BUY YOU SOME OBLITERATORS, doesn't apply. Thus I am trying to find the best way, tactically, to utilize a dreadnought and predator combo. Primarily I had put them together to mow down light armor and troops, thus I gave the predator the mounted x 2 autocannons, and the predator a TL lascannon with heavy bolter sponsors. The more I play though, the more I am encountering heavy armor. I run a termicide squad to try and counter single instances of Land Raiders, but when I'm seeing multiple AV12 vehicles coming at me, S7 autocannons doesn't cut it. Firing a TL lascannon at them is nice, but it's a waste because the sponsors have to fire at the same target. I also have a squad of havocs, so 4 S8 krak missles have an OK chance of taking out an AV12 vehicle, but in the end it seems my main vehicle crackers aren't ranged, but Daemon Prince's and Kharn.

Any thoughts on how best to handle mechs in since they are so common in v5?

What else is in your collection?

Chaos has several options to deal with vehicles. Never under estimate the very basic CSM 10 man squad with CC / BP, along with 2 Melta guns, and a Champion with a Combi Melta and Power fist. If given opportunity, they will wreck most vehicles, and even threaten those pesky Landraiders. Coupled with the options you have: Dreadnaught and Predator, that would allow you something to flip over tanks, while having lots available to shoot down whatever is inside of those tanks. This would like also require you to take a Rhino Transport to close the distance faster, and extend the available range for your Melta guns. Similarly a nice buddy unit is another unit of CSM with Plasma guns with a combi plasma on the Champion to kill MEQ's, and threaten monstrous creatures. Rapid fire plasma weapons kill Rhino's and Chimeras pretty well when necessary.

Similarly, I do not use Havocs for Missiles. I use them for special weapons. Having the ability to take 4 Melta Guns is amazing for Tank Hunting. Similiar to your CSM squads, mount them in a Rhino. A Mechanize Chaos list is often better then a Loyalist Rhino list. You have more access to Meltas / Plasma's, and the Havoc's are more diversified then their Loyalist counter part Devestators. I found that fighting up close and person fits the Chaos list very very well. Don't be afraid to jump out of a Rhino and rapid fire.

While I know you mentioned you do not have funds for obliterators, do not despair. You can simply buy Chaos Terminators and convert your own. Many chaos players do this. I did this myself and made 2 Obliterators because the cost GW has at there's presently is obsurd.

Oblits are great, but not -necessary- Get a PW in close combat and their gone. Having only powerfists to defend themselves.

Kit the Pred out as a dakka pred, and give the Dready an Autocannon. You know have weapons with great range, and high str that can scythe thorough most tanks and infantry.

Oh, try not to roll 1's on the dreads movement.

Question on the rules for the heavy bolter sponsors on a predator, what can they hit? It's a 90 degree angle from the side of the side of tank yes? So if the target is directly in front of it, they can't hit it? So to light something up with a sponsor and the lascannon on top, I have to expose my weaker side armor ya?

sponsons go in further than 90 dgrees. The dead spot on a predator is only a few inches and there is no dead spot for anything as wide as the tank.

Well I really wouldn't be firing heavy bolters at a tank as they would never penetrate, is there a template or page number in the rule book that shows exactly how far in the chaos predator sponsors can fire, so I can determine how I should pivot to increase the chance of showing the front side, and hitting with sponsors?

Wish the side armor was 13

I am a big fan of the Predator Annihilator and I run 3 with my Black Templars. Here's some advice:

1) Go uniform or go home. If you're mixing Lascannons and Heavy Bolters, you're always going to be wasting one gun or the other.

2) Go cheap and mobile or expensive and static, but don't cross. If you're running an Annihilator, keep it cheap with just the twin-linked turret weapon and no sponsons, then just keep moving 6" a turn to stay away from the enemy. If you give it lascannon sponsons, don't move as much as possible and shoot all 3 per turn.

3) Don't worry about missile launchers or anything less powerful. Worry about lascannons and meltaguns. Your front armor is surprisingly resilient.

4) Target priority is a must. With three lascannons, it's easy to destroy one target per turn. But if that one target is a sedan full of bunnies which is next to a Land Raider full of angry 'zerkers, then you've selected the target wrong.

I'd say give the Pred's an auto-cannon turret and side-sponson lascannons. Even at 10pts more than the Codex: Space Marines version, its a great all round unit for taking out all but the heaviest vehicles, and is decent against heavy infantry too.
At 130pts its a good deal IMHO and adds additional armour saturation which is always good.

Agreed. Just because the loyalist version is 10p cheaper doesn't make an AC/Las pred good for CSM.

Real CSM players don't need oblits!

Page 59 of the BRB has a picture of a predator's sponsor arcs.

I like to field a Predator with Twin-Linked Las Cannon and side sponsor Las Cannons. It is great anti-tank and once you have killed the armour 3 Las Cannon shots a turn is a possible 3 enemy guys dead. But I have just started using Obliterators and when you use a squad of 3 Obliterators, a Las Cannon Predator and a Defiler you have some serious anti-everything

My only issue with taking the autocannon is it's not twink linked. So when I give it demonic possession (because it always seems to get hit...hard), the BS hit made me think that I should take something TL'd, and then dual heavy bolter sponsors because of the amount of shots fired can make up for the lack of BS.

Judging by this though, I should either go Autocanon/Heavy Bolter Sponsors for infantry blasting, or TL lascannon and Lascannon sponsors? I cannot find the lascannon sponsor models on this thing for the life of me...hrm..

That's because the Chaos Kit does not come with the Turrent TL Lascannon or the Las Cannon Sponsons. If you go on GW website, the Loyalist Kit comes with all the weapon options. The Chaos Kit comes with Autocannon / Heavy Bolters sponsons and the Chaos Upgrade kit.

If you wanted the TL Lascannons / Lascannons sponsons, you buy the Loyalist kit.

Gw Site:
Space Marine Predator
This box set contains one multi-part plastic Space Marine Predator tank. This 94-piece kit includes components to make all of the weapon options available in Codex: Space Marines, including: a twin-linked lascannon, a pair of lascannon sponsons, an autocannon, a pair of heavy bolter sponsons, a storm bolter and a hunter-killer missile.

Chaos Predator
This boxed set contains 1 multi-part plastic Chaos Space Marine Predator tank, including options for an autocannon turret and 2 heavy bolter side sponsons

My Chaos Predator Kit came with all weapon options.

@OP, I'd still recommend Autocannon Turret with Lascannon Sponsons; it's the most cost-effective anti-tank variant IMHO. Furthermore, I wouldn't recommend Daemonic Possession, 20pts to make your shooting tank BS3 is a lot, you may as well go for extra armour or leave it all-together IMHO.

Just Dave wrote:My Chaos Predator Kit came with all weapon options.

mine too, is this a recent change? I'm planning on getting one soon, i want full las on it so i need some confirmation on this if anyone know if this is true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DrChaos wrote:

Just Dave wrote:My Chaos Predator Kit came with all weapon options.

mine too, is this a recent change? I'm planning on getting one soon, i want full las on it so i need some confirmation on this if anyone know if this is true.

I'v just looked on the site and it clearly states that it comes with all the options, had myself woried fro a second then

Just Dave wrote:I wouldn't recommend Daemonic Possession, 20pts to make your shooting tank BS3 is a lot, you may as well go for extra armour or leave it all-together IMHO.

I don't run predators, but with vindicator, land raider, or defiler I am quite fond of possession. Considering a single glancing hit will always take your tank out of the game for a turn, having one that totally ignores most glancing hits seems pretty point-worthy. Even with the slightly reduced ballistic skill.

Kevlar wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I wouldn't recommend Daemonic Possession, 20pts to make your shooting tank BS3 is a lot, you may as well go for extra armour or leave it all-together IMHO.

I don't run predators, but with vindicator, land raider, or defiler I am quite fond of possession. Considering a single glancing hit will always take your tank out of the game for a turn, having one that totally ignores most glancing hits seems pretty point-worthy. Even with the slightly reduced ballistic skill.

I think for those 3 vehicles Daemonic Possession can work as they are less reliant on balistic skill; as Vindicators and Defilers are scatter weapons, and Land Raiders are twin-linked and transports. I think considering its roles and weapons, the Predator is significantly hampered by Possession, unlike the above.

DrChaos wrote:

Just Dave wrote:My Chaos Predator Kit came with all weapon options.

mine too, is this a recent change? I'm planning on getting one soon, i want full las on it so i need some confirmation on this if anyone know if this is true.

Mine came with all the weapons, too.

A friend added 3 vindicators to his BA army, and he bought all CSM vindi's. When I asked him why, he showed me the contents of the loyalist and traitor vindicator boxes. Both the same, but the loyalist came with 1 maybe 2 smallish accessories sprues, with marine gunners and pintle mounted SB's and parchment etc. The Traitor vindicator accessories were 2 big ass sprues filled with spikey and armor plates and rams and trophy racks. He wanted the CSM bits for future vehicle accessories, since he already had a box of parchment/loyalist accessories for vehicles.


Why would they change the pred kit to not have the lascannons? They would alienate alot of CSM players doing that. And besides that, its one sprue, the turret options. They'd have to make a whole new mold, just so they could over CSM players? I doubt they are spending money to make less money.

Jihallah wrote:


Why would they change the pred kit to not have the lascannons? They would alienate alot of CSM players doing that. And besides that, its one sprue, the turret options. They'd have to make a whole new mold, just so they could over CSM players? I doubt they are spending money to make less money.

The old preds had metal bits, no sprue.

Kevlar wrote:
The old preds had metal bits, no sprue.

And how many years ago did they change from the old metal preds? The ones that ooze that 80's style? I played with one the other week they don't quite look right next to a new one.

But clearly he was referring to the current pred, not the old one. I bolded the bits for you this time

njpc wrote:That's because the Chaos Kit does not come with the Turrent TL Lascannon or the Las Cannon Sponsons. If you go on GW website, the Loyalist Kit comes with all the weapon options. The Chaos Kit comes with Autocannon / Heavy Bolters sponsons and the Chaos Upgrade kit.

If you wanted the TL Lascannons / Lascannons sponsons, you buy the Loyalist kit.

Gw Site:
Space Marine Predator
This box set contains one multi-part plastic Space Marine Predator tank. This 94-piece kit includes components to make all of the weapon options available in Codex: Space Marines, including: a twin-linked lascannon, a pair of lascannon sponsons, an autocannon, a pair of heavy bolter sponsons, a storm bolter and a hunter-killer missile.

Chaos Predator
This boxed set contains 1 multi-part plastic Chaos Space Marine Predator tank, including options for an autocannon turret and 2 heavy bolter side sponsons

You've bolded the wrong part I think, for the Chaos Predator. If you look at the end of the 1st paragraph of its description, it says it comes with all weapon options, whilst the box art supports this.

I'm quoting the person who started this whole thing by saying it didn't come with the lascannons, not quoting the GW site. He is quoting the GW site.


the bit he missed was directly above the bit he quoted-

The Predators of the Chaos Legions are a legacy of pre-Heresy times. But now daemonic maws adorn every gun barrel and dark icons cover every surface. The Chaos Predator comes complete with all the weapon options the Predator can take, including the twin-linked lascannons and lascannon side sponsons.

Jihallah wrote:I'm quoting the person who started this whole thing by saying it didn't come with the lascannons, not quoting the GW site. He is quoting the GW site.


the bit he missed was directly above the bit he quoted-

The Predators of the Chaos Legions are a legacy of pre-Heresy times. But now daemonic maws adorn every gun barrel and dark icons cover every surface. The Chaos Predator comes complete with all the weapon options the Predator can take, including the twin-linked lascannons and lascannon side sponsons.

Aaah. Gotcha.

njpc, sort it out.

Apologies if my copy / paste caused some confusion, my Gw / copy fu is weak sauce !

I purchased my predator from a collection of broken CSM parts, so I've been slowly rebuilding it. I converted the autocannon into a lascannon, and had put the heavy bolter sponsors it came with on the sides. It seems though that the recommended build is TL Lascannon, Lascannon sponsors, and no demonic possession? Just seems too easy to stun or shake it as it's such an obvious target, and then it's 130+ points of dead weight. I wonder if there would be a way to convert to lascannon sponsors...

Telsiph wrote:I purchased my predator from a collection of broken CSM parts, so I've been slowly rebuilding it. I converted the autocannon into a lascannon, and had put the heavy bolter sponsors it came with on the sides. It seems though that the recommended build is TL Lascannon, Lascannon sponsors, and no demonic possession? Just seems too easy to stun or shake it as it's such an obvious target, and then it's 130+ points of dead weight. I wonder if there would be a way to convert to lascannon sponsors...

Honestly, if you have other heavy armor, a predator isn't such an obvious choice for the enemy. After all, it's only 3 TL lascannons. If you have a defiler with Battlecannon and 2x CCW and a Vindicator as your other two HS choices, then the enemy has some hard decisions to make.

EDIT:
You'd also be surprised at how durable armor 13 is. It's hard to shake or stun without the application of significant, and dedicated, AT assets. No random plasma gun or autocannon fire will be stunning this beast, unless the opponent is exceedingly lucky.

Agreed, AV13 is really great, however I have never had any player actually hit it's front armor. Due to how small the front side is, it is incredibly easy to move a little and hit it's side armor. My primary opponent is a space marine salamander army, so he rolls in with a squad of speeders, which can easily get along side the predator, and blast it with a multi-melta that can reroll to hit.

Basically I'm trying to increase my turn 1 survivability, as our last game he was successfully able (using speeders, and drop pods with dreadnoughts) to destroy/disable a rhino (killing 2 in it), my predator by coming alongside it, and my dreadnought. That's a hell of a lot of units to be able to drop turn 1, I'll admit his rolls were lucky, and my cover saves were bad, but just increasing survivability in situations like that.

CSM has alot of ways to deal with enemy armor.

As you said in your HQ slot princes and whatever else can take out armor at close range.

In your elite slot you have chosen, you can kit 5 of them out with melta guns and give em a rhino which can outflank, this is great and VERY competitive.

Your troops can all be given melta guns, 2 per squad and armor 12 doesnt last long.

Heavy support has alot of options. A Lascannon pred is decent. Obliderators are good, you dont need 9, even a squad of 3 can work wonders. Vindicators are decent, as well as Defilers.

My recommendation:

Kit out all your preds the same way - autolas - autocannon and las sponsons. That way, you are ready for everything at a decent price. All-las is too expensive in the current codex. I'd rather have 3x autolas than 2x all-las. Giving a TL las and no sponsons is a great way to get a useless brick after just one weapon-destroyed result.

Dreads - I love them for fluff reasons. If I run any, I run them in a phalanx of 3, shoulder to shoulder, with extra CC and TL bolters. That way if they get nutty, they cannot hurt each other or anything else in your army. Don't do the beardy ML trick "I shoot myself with frag". That is horribly cheesy and clearly against the spirit of the rules. That is unless you normally will shoot frag at vehicles...

Good luck and death to the false emperor!