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Rhino is exploded, how many guys can be placed inside the Rhino explosion crater:

1- If models are 1" from the Rhino and blow it up via a meltagun
2- If models assaulted the Rhino and blew it up.

leohart wrote:Rhino is exploded, how many guys can be placed inside the Rhino explosion crater:

1- If models are 1" from the Rhino and blow it up via a meltagun
2- If models assaulted the Rhino and blew it up.

Ive seen this played two ways.

1) place all models you can 1" away the rest are casualties.
2) Via the Deep Strike Rules if any cannot be placed the whole unit is destroyed.

I generally play 1) but YMMV.

I also play as option 1.

As many as can fit that stay 1" away from enemy models.

In case #1 you can probably get 10 marines in the crater.

In case #2 it depends where your assault troops are positioned. If the vehicle is surrounded, you get like 3 marines in the crater when staying 1" away.

Rules do not cover that.
You have to house rule it.

Since the 40K vehicles are hardly to scale with the infantry models I would just ignore the 1' rule and place as many as survive the explosion in the crater and run with that.
Otherwise a scale Rhino would be at least twice the size of the actual model.
Just another abstraction to deal with in a game based on abstract concepts and movements.

dkellyj wrote:
Otherwise a scale Rhino would be at least twice the size of the actual model.

10 Marines fit quite snugly into a Rhino. Stop perpetuating this myth.

DarknessEternal wrote:

dkellyj wrote:
Otherwise a scale Rhino would be at least twice the size of the actual model.

10 Marines fit quite snugly into a Rhino. Stop perpetuating this myth.

QFT

leahart wrote:Rhino is exploded, how many guys can be placed inside the Rhino explosion crater:

1- If models are 1" from the Rhino and blow it up via a meltagun
2- If models assaulted the Rhino and blew it up.

according to debarkation rules any models that cannot be placed are destroyed so play number 1

DarknessEternal wrote:10 Marines fit quite snugly into a Rhino. Stop perpetuating this myth.

That is actually not true.

I just re-looked at my rhino and my marines, and 4 marines could sit comfortably in the rhino, with 2 or 3 more standing. The shoulderpads are too big to fit more than 6 or 7 in the rhino.

The rhino does need to be a bit bigger, not twice the size, but maybe 30-40% bigger to actually fit the marines and use it as a troop transport.

You guys are correct. A Rhino does fit everyone inside. See seating/standing chart in Imperial Armour 2 under Combat Formations: Rhino carrying Tactical Squad.

Stop Talking nonsense. If i can fit 12 ork boyz in an old school Trukk. they the rhinos are fine, it would be a sad day that if they ever assaulted that skate board that i would lose all but 1 model but hey, if they are assaulting i am doing something wrong.

leohart wrote:You guys are correct. A Rhino does fit everyone inside. See seating/standing chart in Imperial Armour 2 under Combat Formations: Rhino carrying Tactical Squad.

that is fine for the drawing, but the mini's do not match up to the art.

They, in fact, do fit that many marines.

Do a google image search on the many converted Rhinos holding 10 Marines in the passenger compartment.

DarknessEternal wrote:They, in fact, do fit that many marines.

Do a google image search on the many converted Rhinos holding 10 Marines in the passenger compartment.

Perhaps my search fu is weak.... could you post a couple links?

I have been searching as well, but I couldn't find it.

DarknessEternal wrote:They, in fact, do fit that many marines.

Do a google image search on the many converted Rhinos holding 10 Marines in the passenger compartment.

The only fit if you so some serious reduction to the marines shoulderpads/fit them in like a clown car.

Edit: Wait here it is, 10 marines in a Rhino:

Same, although I saw some pretty hawt units...

I Lol'ed hard.

I use option 1.

The pic I remember uses the seated marines from the Stormraven to get 3 on each side, then 4 without bases and with straight arms can stand between the benches.

DarknessEternal wrote:They, in fact, do fit that many marines.

Do a google image search on the many converted Rhinos holding 10 Marines in the passenger compartment.

I would be curious to see these 'many' conversions. I've only come across one over the years, which was done using the old school rhino and landspeeder crewmen with no backpacks or weapons.

The current rhino has enough floorspace for 10 marines, but they don't actually fit inside due to the height of the roof. I tried this for a potential entry for Auscon's painting comp last year... I started assembling a rhino cutaway on one side to show the interior with the passengers inside, and found that with backpacks on the roof was too low for marines to actually sit on the 4 bench seats, and the guys standing in the middle of the cabin would need to be bent over almost in half in order to fit... which reduces the available floorspace.

So speaking from experience, 10 marines do not fit in a current rhino.


Having said that, since the floorspace is the relevant issue here, deploying the marines in the rhino's footprint shouldn't be too much of an issue. The bases mean that they take up a little more real estate than they would in 'reality' though, so the 1" rule is going to cause issues if you apply it.

Who says they all have to ride inside? 5 in the back, 5 on top.

Kevlar wrote:Who says they all have to ride inside? 5 in the back, 5 on top.

They are Space marines, not Hobos...

DeathReaper wrote:

Kevlar wrote:Who says they all have to ride inside? 5 in the back, 5 on top.

They are Space marines, not Hobos...

I prefer space gypsies.

I would suggest that ignoring the 1" rule might be applicable here. Fit as many as you can where the vehicle used to be and roll with it. The unit is not "moving" so it's not affected by movement rules, and the unit is also not disembarking. The rules only state that they should be "placed where the vehicle used to be". It's definitely an interesting problem.

1" away. If the vehicle is surrounded completely you''re usually only going to fit three.

While technically they are not disembarking, and are thus not moving and not subject to the 1" restriction, I never see it played any other way than option 1.

Before anyone brings up "now disembarked" you can be in the state of disembarked, i.e. no longer embarked on the vehicle, without following the disembark process as given in the rulebook, whcih is what models suffering the Explodes! result dont do. They would struggle to follow the disembark process as there are no exit points any longer, and no hull.

But the only time you are allowed to be with in one inch of an enemy is in the assault phase. or if you are ramming.

You are not Given permission otherwise.

There's a bit of an interesting discussion about the topic. It's always been in the background but on the cusp of a new edition why not bring it to light now????

EMBARKING AND DISEMBARKING

Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the Movement phase, and may not voluntarily both embark and disembark in the same player turn. However, they may embark and then be forced to disembark if their transport is destroyed.

I think (for me) this clears up whether they are considered to be disembarking or not (below).
The first quote is the source of confusion. Under Transport Vehicles it says the following:

Destroyed - explodes!
The unit suffers a number of Strength 4, AP- hits equal to the number of models embarked, treated just like hits from shooting. The surviving passengers are placed where the vehicle used to be and then take a Pinning test.

Note: remember that all models in a single unit fire simultaneously, so a squad cannot take out a transport with its lascannon and then mow down the occupants with their bolters. However, if a transport is destroyed (either result) by a ranged attack, the unit that shot it may assault the now disembarked passengers, if it is allowed to assault according to the assault rules.

So the models that are placed are considered to have disembarked.

Disembarking
A unit that begins its Movement phase aboard a vehicle can disembark either before or after the vehicle has moved. When the unit disembarks, each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle's access points, and within unit coherency. Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy.

If any models cannot disembark because of enemies or because they would end up in impassable terrain, the unit can perform an 'emergency disembarkation' - the models are deployed anywhere within 2" of the vehicle's hull, but the unit can't do anything else for the rest of the turn. If even this disembarkation is impossible, they can't disembark.

While the models are placed, and not disembarking, they are in fact considered to have disembarked. This is why models that are unable to be placed outside of 1" from enemy models are destroyed.

But after that I suppose I would plead that nowhere else in the MRB or Codices is there allowed enemy models within 1". The only exception (as mentioned in the MRB) is assaulting models. That's all I could find. :-/

Hope this helps...

THE_GODLYNESS wrote:But the only time you are allowed to be with in one inch of an enemy is in the assault phase. or if you are ramming.

You are not Given permission otherwise.

No, you are restricted WHEN MOVING from moving within 1" Thats it.

In every tourney I've been in, I can't think of a time this has come up (which is weird). To me, you have to follow disembarking rules (just like you would with a wreck, which in the given situation would kill the unit inside). Not sure how getting out of the transport isn't disembarking to some.