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Hey guys,

Ive been playing 40k for a while now but never in any tournaments and never very seriously until now. Ive recently gotten back into the idea of starting a Space Marine army and i was inspired by the post on the GW blog about the Japanese fellow (whose name escapes me) with a magnificent Imperial Fists Army. As such ive been putting the wheels in motion and you can see my gallery for how my work goes so far.

Getting to the point: I feel like the importance of the Imperial fists has somehow passed everyone by. Rogal Dorn and his chapter were key in the defence of Terra. Loken(i think) even describes Rogal Dorn and his Imperial Fists as "The Immovable object", such is the skill they possess in seige warfare. Sometimes i feel like perhaps Imperial Fists deserve they're own Codex, but i keep reminding myself that they are so close to Vanilla marines that there would be literally no point whatsoever.

So my question is: Do you feel like Imperial Fists are among the most important and influential Chapters of the IoM? Where would you rank them among the best, if at all? We are talking about the founding chapter for the Black Templars, and the Crimson Fists after all.

Lemme know your thoughts.

Considering they've given us Black Templars and Crimson Fists, let alone all their own accomplishments and their role in the Heresy, I'd say they're extremely important. I think a lot of folks don't think about them much because they're seldom seen on the tabletop. Yellow is an enormous pain in the ass to paint, so you don't see much of them.

They are of incredible importance, and contributed greatly to the defence of Terra...but at the end of the day they are amongst equals with the other First Founding/Legions.

On a side note...they are so codex that ultramarines wish they were Fists.

Glad you guys agree with me and i can testify to how much of a pain Yellow is to paint lol.

Imperial Fists have definitely accomplished more than the average Space marine Chapter, in that they've delayed the inevitable destruction of the Imperium quite a lot longer than the rest have.

I'd say that the Ultramarines were probably the most important/influential of chapters since they put the Imperium back together during The Scouring and have been instrumental in stopping two different Hive Fleets, but that's not to say the Imperial Fists aren't to be listed amongst the best.

I've always been a bit puzzled by their description as master of defense, since being defensive specialists seems to be a very un-Spacemariney occupation. Space Marines don't possess the numbers to be defensive in nature unless forced. It seems to be a pigeonhole given their task prior to the Heresy. You'd think in 10,000 years they'd have gotten away from that, lol.

Have to echo the yellow thing. If anyone had made decent yellows twenty years ago, I'd have gone with Imperial Fists rather than Wolves.

As for the wisdom of creating a Marine Legion to fight defensively, that seems more a side effect of Dorn being genetically engineered to be the greatest architect of fortifications in the galaxy.

I wanted to play Imperial Fists when I first started, but I couldn't figure out how to paint an acceptable looking yellow, and after several weeks of trying, finally gave up and moved on to a different army. I think that it is primarily the color which keeps people from playing them more than they'd like, but that's just my opinion.

Imperial Fists are awesome and as you have pointed out, they are incredibly important fluff wise. I feel the SM codex just overdid it with the Ultramarines by making them the best marines ever. My top 2 favorite Marines are Blood Angels, and GK, but not far behind are the Imperial Fists. Had I not started with BA and GK as my first armies I would have gone straight for Imperial Fists, but the propect of painting everything yellow made me cringe.

As it is I have a somewhat difficult time painting yellow on my Assault Marine's heads for Blood Angels.

Just a quick question, what article was being looked at? I marvel at good yellow painters*, and I'd like to take a gander.













*referring, of course, to the color the painter uses, rather than the color of the painter.

You are right yellow is kinda an icky color to paint and play, some say an eye sore. Imperial Fists have done much in defence of the Imperium such as defeat many Ork Waaghs in the past and yes they tend to be on the defencive, but I say there opposite contender traitor marines the Iron Warriors do just as good in Seige warfare. Its totally unfair that the Imperial Fists don't have the fluff they really deserve, I started my first army as Crimson Fists and they were really fun in 1st and 2nd Edition. I then turned to the Black Legion because I like they way they look.

I like playing IF.

I've also seen some excellently painted IF.

They're yellow ultramarines; they're a large chapter with many descending chapters and have been vital to many victories, including the siege of Terra.

Also, one of their important accomplishments was smashing the entire first black crusade to pieces before it was even launched, at a time where the Imperium was unstable enough that such an attack could have been exactly enough to upset the delicate balance, and permanently damage it.

Plus, they command the largest, most powerful space-borne vessel in the entire Imperium of Man, have considerably resources/connections, are incredibly steadfast, are pain tolerant even amongst space marines (they use the pain glove on a regular basis, and in phalanx when it was used on non-IF marines, it broke their minds) and are very, very closely connected to their successors (Feast of Blades and all), being able to call them in for matters of many natures (trial of the SD). I'd say the only loyalists with closer connections to their successors would be Dark Angels, because being able to assemble your successors is just amazing, especially for larger campaigns.

As a final point, we can see they are more level headed then most marines by looking at their actions, such as the time they had diplomatic relations with the tau (Diplomacy? HERESY!).

Also, without them, there would be no mechanicus (since during the martian civil war they assaulted the Red Planet and rescued all the loyal members of the mechanicus, including the Fabricator Locum) and no Terra (on top of their defending of the Imperial Palace, they also fortified it to unimaginable extents). Also, their sparing of Garro upon the delivery of his news allowed the Imperium to prepare for the warmaster's attack, and with Garro as one of the founding members of the Inquisition...

Plus, #yellowswag

Red Comet wrote:Imperial Fists are awesome and as you have pointed out, they are incredibly important fluff wise. I feel the SM codex just overdid it with the Ultramarines by making them the best marines ever.

People complain about that Codex, but they don't realize that nearly all of the stuff that was in that Codex has existed since Codex: Ultramarines, and has continued through the 3rd, and 4th Edition Codex: Space Marines. Codex: Space Marines started as Codex: Ultramarines and always has been. The name was changed for marketing reasons. New players were confused as to what codex to buy for basic Space Marine armies.

Ryogo Yamane is the name of the amazing imperial fists apocolypse army. Check it out, it's rediculously good.

The new GW yellow is exceptionally good compared to the rubbish used in the past. I think it may finally be possible to do decent yellow paintjobs now.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I've always been a bit puzzled by their description as master of defense, since being defensive specialists seems to be a very un-Spacemariney occupation. Space Marines don't possess the numbers to be defensive in nature unless forced. It seems to be a pigeonhole given their task prior to the Heresy. You'd think in 10,000 years they'd have gotten away from that, lol.

I always imagined that the Imperial Fists brought a helluva lot of slaves/serfs/servitors and equipment and vehicles with them.

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Red Comet wrote:Imperial Fists are awesome and as you have pointed out, they are incredibly important fluff wise. I feel the SM codex just overdid it with the Ultramarines by making them the best marines ever.

People complain about that Codex, but they don't realize that nearly all of the stuff that was in that Codex has existed since Codex: Ultramarines, and has continued through the 3rd, and 4th Edition Codex: Space Marines. Codex: Space Marines started as Codex: Ultramarines and always has been. The name was changed for marketing reasons. New players were confused as to what codex to buy for basic Space Marine armies.

QFT.

Coverage of Imperial Fists and other non-Ultramarines has exploded exponentially in the transition from the 4th Editon to the 5th Edition book. Never has there been a more Imperial Fist (Salamander, White Scar, Raven Guard, etc..) friendly, and less Ultramarine-focussed Codex Space Marines than the 5th Edition one.

I run Imperial Fists, the yellow is tricky to start with, but once you get a system you like it's cake.

As for fluff. It's funny for a chapter that has been so influential in the events of 40K mythos there are not a lot of stories about them. They seem to show up in short stories every once in a while, either to rescue someone, do something important and then die a honorable death to save the hero or something. And in the case of the Ultramarine's movie...well...that's just more smurf love.

However they are true Vanilla Marines in terms of game play. But I like fluff reason for it. Dorn did not want to accept Roboute Guilliman's codex but he did not want another civil war because Leman was ready too. So he acquiesced. But before he was willing to break his chapter down he went on a massive crusade. The survivors who came back formed the Crimson Fists, Soul Drinkers, and the majority of them became Black Templar's, and then Dorn kept a chosen 900 with him as Imperial Fists.

LoneLictor wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I've always been a bit puzzled by their description as master of defense, since being defensive specialists seems to be a very un-Spacemariney occupation. Space Marines don't possess the numbers to be defensive in nature unless forced. It seems to be a pigeonhole given their task prior to the Heresy. You'd think in 10,000 years they'd have gotten away from that, lol.

I always imagined that the Imperial Fists brought a helluva lot of slaves/serfs/servitors and equipment and vehicles with them.

Obviously they wouldn't defend alone, they'd fortify, assault from the walls, counter-mine, repel invaders etc. unlike in the heresy where they DID have the numbers.

Read storm of Iron for an example, even though they arrived too late to actually fortify the citadel...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dalsiandon wrote:I run Imperial Fists, the yellow is tricky to start with, but once you get a system you like it's cake.

As for fluff. It's funny for a chapter that has been so influential in the events of 40K mythos there are not a lot of stories about them. They seem to show up in short stories every once in a while, either to rescue someone, do something important and then die a honorable death to save the hero or something. And in the case of the Ultramarine's movie...well...that's just more smurf love.

However they are true Vanilla Marines in terms of game play. But I like fluff reason for it. Dorn did not want to accept Roboute Guilliman's codex but he did not want another civil war because Leman was ready too. So he acquiesced. But before he was willing to break his chapter down he went on a massive crusade. The survivors who came back formed the Crimson Fists, Soul Drinkers, and the majority of them became Black Templar's, and then Dorn kept a chosen 900 with him as Imperial Fists.

Back then, BT were normal sized.

Also, excoriators were a second founding IF chapter, showing that perhaps those are just the most noteworthy successors? Also, Soul Drinkers aren't IF descendants, read Phalanx for details.

Plus, a chapter is more than 900 marines. Specialists bring it up to 1000 (because scouts don't count as marines)

And even though in the universe their combat style would be quite distinctive, they simply cannot be different on the TT because then they'd have to start giving out codices to just about every chapter (though they already seem to be doing that...There are 8 PA codices right now)

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I've always been a bit puzzled by their description as master of defense, since being defensive specialists seems to be a very un-Spacemariney occupation. Space Marines don't possess the numbers to be defensive in nature unless forced. It seems to be a pigeonhole given their task prior to the Heresy. You'd think in 10,000 years they'd have gotten away from that, lol.

I always imagined that the Imperial Fists brought a helluva lot of slaves/serfs/servitors and equipment and vehicles with them.

Obviously they wouldn't defend alone, they'd fortify, assault from the walls, counter-mine, repel invaders etc. unlike in the heresy where they DID have the numbers.

Read storm of Iron for an example, even though they arrived too late to actually fortify the citadel...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dalsiandon wrote:I run Imperial Fists, the yellow is tricky to start with, but once you get a system you like it's cake.

As for fluff. It's funny for a chapter that has been so influential in the events of 40K mythos there are not a lot of stories about them. They seem to show up in short stories every once in a while, either to rescue someone, do something important and then die a honorable death to save the hero or something. And in the case of the Ultramarine's movie...well...that's just more smurf love.

However they are true Vanilla Marines in terms of game play. But I like fluff reason for it. Dorn did not want to accept Roboute Guilliman's codex but he did not want another civil war because Leman was ready too. So he acquiesced. But before he was willing to break his chapter down he went on a massive crusade. The survivors who came back formed the Crimson Fists, Soul Drinkers, and the majority of them became Black Templar's, and then Dorn kept a chosen 900 with him as Imperial Fists.

Back then, BT were normal sized.

Also, excoriators were a second founding IF chapter, showing that perhaps those are just the most noteworthy successors? Also, Soul Drinkers aren't IF descendants, read Phalanx for details.

Plus, a chapter is more than 900 marines. Specialists bring it up to 1000 (because scouts don't count as marines)

And even though in the universe their combat style would be quite distinctive, they simply cannot be different on the TT because then they'd have to start giving out codices to just about every chapter (though they already seem to be doing that...There are 8 PA codices right now)

Well I read somewhere that the soul drinkers were, either in the lexiconum or wiki or something, but if not no big deal, Iron Knights are also a second founding chapter as well...so my list was not all in compassing.

As for 900 instead of a 1000, 10th company is the scout company and as you know and the numbers of scouts is a revolving door. And if you want to add in the tech-marines, the librarians and their staff, the apothecarians people and the serfs and the dedicated navy personal well then number is likely to be close to 5000 or 6000.support staff And then with the command squads you have 5 man units for 10 companies and thats 50 more marines over the cap of 1000. But for basic battle brothers the number caps 900.

dalsiandon wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

LoneLictor wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:I've always been a bit puzzled by their description as master of defense, since being defensive specialists seems to be a very un-Spacemariney occupation. Space Marines don't possess the numbers to be defensive in nature unless forced. It seems to be a pigeonhole given their task prior to the Heresy. You'd think in 10,000 years they'd have gotten away from that, lol.

I always imagined that the Imperial Fists brought a helluva lot of slaves/serfs/servitors and equipment and vehicles with them.

Obviously they wouldn't defend alone, they'd fortify, assault from the walls, counter-mine, repel invaders etc. unlike in the heresy where they DID have the numbers.

Read storm of Iron for an example, even though they arrived too late to actually fortify the citadel...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dalsiandon wrote:I run Imperial Fists, the yellow is tricky to start with, but once you get a system you like it's cake.

As for fluff. It's funny for a chapter that has been so influential in the events of 40K mythos there are not a lot of stories about them. They seem to show up in short stories every once in a while, either to rescue someone, do something important and then die a honorable death to save the hero or something. And in the case of the Ultramarine's movie...well...that's just more smurf love.

However they are true Vanilla Marines in terms of game play. But I like fluff reason for it. Dorn did not want to accept Roboute Guilliman's codex but he did not want another civil war because Leman was ready too. So he acquiesced. But before he was willing to break his chapter down he went on a massive crusade. The survivors who came back formed the Crimson Fists, Soul Drinkers, and the majority of them became Black Templar's, and then Dorn kept a chosen 900 with him as Imperial Fists.

Back then, BT were normal sized.

Also, excoriators were a second founding IF chapter, showing that perhaps those are just the most noteworthy successors? Also, Soul Drinkers aren't IF descendants, read Phalanx for details.

Plus, a chapter is more than 900 marines. Specialists bring it up to 1000 (because scouts don't count as marines)

And even though in the universe their combat style would be quite distinctive, they simply cannot be different on the TT because then they'd have to start giving out codices to just about every chapter (though they already seem to be doing that...There are 8 PA codices right now)

Well I read somewhere that the soul drinkers were, either in the lexiconum or wiki or something, but if not no big deal, Iron Knights are also a second founding chapter as well...so my list was not all in compassing.

As for 900 instead of a 1000, 10th company is the scout company and as you know and the numbers of scouts is a revolving door. And if you want to add in the tech-marines, the librarians and their staff, the apothecarians people and the serfs and the dedicated navy personal well then number is likely to be close to 5000 or 6000.support staff And then with the command squads you have 5 man units for 10 companies and thats 50 more marines over the cap of 1000. But for basic battle brothers the number caps 900.

You have to factor in command squads, champions, a techmarine, chaplain, apothecary per company, captains, chapter master...

So that's like 1000 marines, give or take.

And the soul drinkers thought they were sons of dorn, and canonically they were, until Phalanx revealed it to be a misbelief.

I think the fists are a good challenge for a painter. And yellow marines done nice are a real showcase of your painting skills, even if you ARE using vanilla everyone has em marines. I'm painting my GK yellow, thanks to a 10 hour painting lesson by an ex 'eavy metal painter on how to get nice yellows.

Last time I checked, IFs aren't getting their primarch called Ragdoll Porn or something stupid like Ultras primarch is called Rowboat Girlyman. Everyone remembers how they held terra with the blood angels and white scars. An IF successor chapter has their own codex. People on this site are quite favorable towards IFs, CFs and BTs. Pedro is considered a decent list among a slew of subpar special characters.

Surtur wrote:Last time I checked, IFs aren't getting their primarch called Ragdoll Porn or something stupid like Ultras primarch is called Rowboat Girlyman. Everyone remembers how they held terra with the blood angels and white scars. An IF successor chapter has their own codex. People on this site are quite favorable towards IFs, CFs and BTs. Pedro is considered a decent list among a slew of subpar special characters.

Sure they have a few characters, and BT have a 'dex, but successors=/=original chapter, is what they're saying.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

Surtur wrote:Last time I checked, IFs aren't getting their primarch called Ragdoll Porn or something stupid like Ultras primarch is called Rowboat Girlyman. Everyone remembers how they held terra with the blood angels and white scars. An IF successor chapter has their own codex. People on this site are quite favorable towards IFs, CFs and BTs. Pedro is considered a decent list among a slew of subpar special characters.

Sure they have a few characters, and BT have a 'dex, but successors=/=original chapter, is what they're saying.

It's funny because the Iron Hands have neither.

I will only say that I like Dorn and his boys in yellow way way more than Guilliman and his boys in ultrasmurf blue...

Surtur wrote:

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

Surtur wrote:Last time I checked, IFs aren't getting their primarch called Ragdoll Porn or something stupid like Ultras primarch is called Rowboat Girlyman. Everyone remembers how they held terra with the blood angels and white scars. An IF successor chapter has their own codex. People on this site are quite favorable towards IFs, CFs and BTs. Pedro is considered a decent list among a slew of subpar special characters.

Sure they have a few characters, and BT have a 'dex, but successors=/=original chapter, is what they're saying.

It's funny because the Iron Hands have neither.

Even fluff wise, there isn't really a distinct IH character with any sort of rich fluff or anything.

Plus, they lose internet points for being so scared of IF tank-hunting doctrine that they wouldn't allow them to put it in the Codex Astartes.