The Star Child and Sesei: Rebirth of the Emperor!

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**Brother Thomas**

Everyone needs to know about this, it is essential to the "Star Child" and "The Sensei" all leading factors into the Imperium recovering and the emperor reborn. GW can't hide this from its avid fans. End of story....
"

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yay, i have acquired a pdf of it. Do not worry i will illuminate you brothers... when i get a chancd to read it. Lol

**Brother Thomas**

Be illuminated, Brothers. This is what I was babbling about. How can they just throw all of this out the window?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
You can click it, and then click again to zoom in, then it is legible.

**Wyrmalla**

^^ The Inquisition declared it all to be a Tzeencthin plot in the 3rd edition codex however. Though later during the 4th edition era the Inquisitor War omnibus was reprinted, so the canon may actually be true. The Inquisitions declaration may only have been as a way to try and oust the Iluminati, seeing as the hard liners were against them. It was all a little too positive and crazy eighties fluff for the current GW writing staff I imagine.

Odd, that's three threads I've posted in in a row referencing that book series.... 0.o

**Brother Thomas**

O_O Very well... So there is still a chance the emperor can become the star child. I mean its not so farfetched that all the shamans died and made the new man, so why cant the emperor die and make the new... new man. lol

**jgehunter**

Brother Thomas wrote:O_O Very well... So there is still a chance the emperor can become the star child. I mean its not so farfetched that all the shamans died and made the new man, so why cant the emperor die and make the new... new man. lol

Well, we don't know a lot about what the shamans, so it is possible that certain rituals are required in order to be re-borned so it is possible that simply "killing" the Emperor wouldn't help him get back up.

**Wyrmalla**

=/ If the shaman thing was canon though then why aren't there more "Emperors"? I don;t know the numbers, but all the time since then I think that there's been enough new psykers to produce a few more Emperors. What's to stop a conclave forming on one world, relearning the skill through trial and error and creating the most powerful psyker that anyone can remember?

**Brother Thomas**

jgehunter wrote:
Brother Thomas wrote:O_O Very well... So there is still a chance the emperor can become the star child. I mean its not so farfetched that all the shamans died and made the new man, so why cant the emperor die and make the new... new man. lol

Well, we don't know a lot about what the shamans, so it is possible that certain rituals are required in order to be re-borned so it is possible that simply "killing" the Emperor wouldn't help him get back up.

It was pretty much implied they just drank poison.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wyrmalla wrote:=/ If the shaman thing was canon though then why aren't there more "Emperors"? I don;t know the numbers, but all the time since then I think that there's been enough new psykers to produce a few more Emperors. What's to stop a conclave forming on one world, relearning the skill through trial and error and creating the most powerful psyker that anyone can remember?

All the Shaman's power united in the warp and went into the Emperor's body

**jgehunter**

Brother Thomas wrote:
It was pretty much implied they just drank poison.

Then why aren't there more emperors created constantly when daily IIRC over a 1.000 psykers are sacrificed to the emperor.
Also you have to take in account that the warp was vastly different in those times, most notably, psykers were constantly reborn and the chaos gods weren't fully present.

**Brother Thomas**

They were Shamans, not "Psykers". Secondly the 1,000 Psykers are sacrificed to power the emperor's soul and keep him alive in the warp.

**jgehunter**

Brother Thomas wrote:They were Shamans, not "Psykers". Secondly the 1,000 Psykers are sacrificed to power the emperor's soul and keep him alive in the warp.

What the heck are shamans if not psykers?

**Brother Thomas**

jgehunter wrote:
Brother Thomas wrote:They were Shamans, not "Psykers". Secondly the 1,000 Psykers are sacrificed to power the emperor's soul and keep him alive in the warp.

What the heck are shamans if not psykers?

They were something that is now no more.

**jgehunter**

The fact that the Emperor came out as a Psyker makes me think that the shamans were probably psykers.

And I still think my second point stands, shamans (IMO Psykers) used to be able to be reborn, but when the warp started to get more disturbed (AKA Chaos Gods) the Shamans as an emergency measure mass suicided, but now that the warp is very unstable I don't think this can be repeated.

**Brother Thomas**

Its written that the Emperor's soul (before being taken to the Golden Throne) floated freely in the warp, hidden from the daemon's in it. Which implies that the Star Child can be reborn. Regardless the emperor will die because the golden throne is going to fail eventually, which is also written

**jgehunter**

Brother Thomas wrote:Its written that the Emperor's soul (before being taken to the Golden Throne) floated freely in the warp, hidden from the daemon's in it. Which implies that the Star Child can be reborn. Regardless the emperor will die because the golden throne is going to fail eventually, which is also written

I'm not arguing that, I just say that maybe the capacity of returning to life (like the shamans could do) was lost.

**Brother Thomas**

jgehunter wrote:
Brother Thomas wrote:Its written that the Emperor's soul (before being taken to the Golden Throne) floated freely in the warp, hidden from the daemon's in it. Which implies that the Star Child can be reborn. Regardless the emperor will die because the golden throne is going to fail eventually, which is also written

I'm not arguing that, I just say that maybe the capacity of returning to life (like the shamans could do) was lost.

I see where you're coming from mate, but we can't be sure! And for me there is always hope to a return to a slight ray of sunlight in the grim dark future.

**Kanluwen**

Wyrmalla wrote:^^ The Inquisition declared it all to be a Tzeencthin plot in the 3rd edition codex however. Though later during the 4th edition era the Inquisitor War omnibus was reprinted, so the canon may actually be true. The Inquisitions declaration may only have been as a way to try and oust the Iluminati, seeing as the hard liners were against them. It was all a little too positive and crazy eighties fluff for the current GW writing staff I imagine.

Odd, that's three threads I've posted in in a row referencing that book series.... 0.o

It's not.

The Inquisition War is a Print on Demand title which is considered a "Heretic Tome".

Heretic Tomes are old novels, which are "not useful for canon purposes, but as a snapshot of the 40k universe as it grew up".

**Quintinus**

Wyrmalla wrote:^^ The Inquisition declared it all to be a Tzeencthin plot in the 3rd edition codex however. Though later during the 4th edition era the Inquisitor War omnibus was reprinted, so the canon may actually be true. The Inquisitions declaration may only have been as a way to try and oust the Iluminati, seeing as the hard liners were against them. It was all a little too positive and crazy eighties fluff for the current GW writing staff I imagine.

Odd, that's three threads I've posted in in a row referencing that book series.... 0.o

The Inquisition has always thought that the Illuminati and the Sensei were part of a Chaos Cult, so there's nothing really new there.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

**Brother Thomas**

The Illuminati are the only hope for the IoM

**ElectricPaladin**

In other words, the Emperor will become the Chaos God of Order.

Well.

That makes as much sense as anything else.

Actually, I think it's a pretty neat idea. That said, let's not get ahead of ourselves. 40k is an immensely old IP, full of false starts. Many good ideas have been ground underfoot between 1983 and today. Just because it's awesome, and you can find support for it in old books, does NOT mean that GW is under any obligation to actually carry out their own ideas.

Sorry.

**Brother Thomas**

Negative, He will not be any form of Chaos God. He is the very essence that is the opposite of Kaos.

Anyhow I am well aware that they don't have to uphold anything. So don't be sorry, Pal

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I should make a new cult lol

**Quintinus**

Brother Thomas wrote:Negative, He will not be any form of Chaos God. He is the very essence that is the opposite of Kaos.

Anyhow I am well aware that they don't have to uphold anything. So don't be sorry, Pal

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should make a new cult lol

Honestly the best thing about the Star Child/Sensei Emperor/Illuminati is that it works as an actual 40k conspiracy theory.

You have people like Kanluwen (who I'm using as an example here

) coming in and saying that this stuff doesn't exist or is "outdated". But the people who have done the research claim that the facts are there. Even Black Library tries to pass it off.

But Brother Thomas, you and I...we know the truth. And that's what matters! hahaha

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

**Kanluwen**

Vlad:

It's not that it "doesn't exist".

It's that it is no longer considered to be a "part of the universe". Did it exist at one point as part of the universe? Certainly. Somewhere along the way though, GW decided that they'd rather not have it in there--for whatever reason.

**Brother Thomas**

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Brother Thomas wrote:Negative, He will not be any form of Chaos God. He is the very essence that is the opposite of Kaos.

Anyhow I am well aware that they don't have to uphold anything. So don't be sorry, Pal

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should make a new cult lol

Honestly the best thing about the Star Child/Sensei Emperor/Illuminati is that it works as an actual 40k conspiracy theory.

You have people like Kanluwen (who I'm using as an example here ) coming in and saying that this stuff doesn't exist or is "outdated". But the people who have done the research claim that the facts are there. Even Black Library tries to pass it off.

But Brother Thomas, you and i...we know the truth. And that's what matters! hahaha

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

Haha, Maybe we're illuminati and we just don't know it. But seriously! I shall continue to spread the good word! It was written and so in my opinion it is always part of the universe and always an option.

**Quintinus**

Kanluwen wrote:Vlad:

It's not that it "doesn't exist".

It's that it is no longer considered to be a "part of the universe". Did it exist at one point as part of the universe? Certainly. Somewhere along the way though, GW decided that they'd rather not have it in there--for whatever reason.

I wasn't originally aware that the Inquisition War was considered non-canon, though it makes sense. The only thing I know of that attempts to discount the Illuminati is the 3rd edition rulebook which says that it's a Tzeentchian cult, which is in-line with the RoC books.

Now I'm not attempting to argue, I'm more attempting to understand. Though either way, I'll probably just feign ignorance and pretend that they're still in there, just for fun. That's the cool thing about 40k, there's so much different stuff everyone has their different version.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

**ContemplativeSphinx**

Kanluwen wrote:Vlad:

It's not that it "doesn't exist".

It's that it is no longer considered to be a "part of the universe". Did it exist at one point as part of the universe? Certainly. Somewhere along the way though, GW decided that they'd rather not have it in there--for whatever reason.

Part of this line of thought did get recycled however into the background of the Thorian branch of the Inquisition.

Its become more a background element - well the star child has, not so sure about the Illuminati.

Edit - Then again, there were those human visitors to the Black Library in Atlas Infernal.....

**Brother Thomas**

Thorianism - These members of the Inquisition believe that the Emperor of Mankind will some day be reincarnated. This is the most "Radical" of the Puritan ideologies due to the possible galactic upheaval that could result should the Thorians actually be able to summon the Emperor into a new physical form, as Believers and Unbelievers in the reborn Emperor's divinity and identity then turn upon each other. The Thorians are named after the great preacher and Ecclesiarch of the 36th Millennium, Sebastian Thor.

..... Well lets get the ball rolling Thorians.

**Kanluwen**

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:Vlad:

It's not that it "doesn't exist".

It's that it is no longer considered to be a "part of the universe". Did it exist at one point as part of the universe? Certainly. Somewhere along the way though, GW decided that they'd rather not have it in there--for whatever reason.

I wasn't originally aware that the Inquisition War was considered non-canon, though it makes sense. The only thing I know of that attempts to discount the Illuminati is the 3rd edition rulebook which says that it's a Tzeentchian cult, which is in-line with the RoC books.

Now I'm not attempting to argue, I'm more attempting to understand. Though either way, I'll probably just feign ignorance and pretend that they're still in there, just for fun. That's the cool thing about 40k, there's so much different stuff everyone has their different version.

Kind Regards,
Vladsimpaler

Oh, certainly there's room for it.

But it's important to remember that GW themselves have come out and said "This is no longer true". They've got Inquisition War and Space Marine available as they were, untouched and unedited with all the silliness still intact, so that new players can see exactly what madness was going on "back in the good old days".

**Quintinus**

Brother Thomas wrote:Thorianism - These members of the Inquisition believe that the Emperor of Mankind will some day be reincarnated. This is the most "Radical" of the Puritan ideologies due to the possible galactic upheaval that could result should the Thorians actually be able to summon the Emperor into a new physical form, as Believers and Unbelievers in the reborn Emperor's divinity and identity then turn upon each other. The Thorians are named after the great preacher and Ecclesiarch of the 36th Millennium, Sebastian Thor.

..... Well lets get the ball rolling Thorians.

Preach on, brother!
Oh and,

40k Lexicanum wrote:
Followers of the Thorian philosophies constantly scour the galaxy for beings they term “Avatars”, individuals of such power that they may prove able to contain the Emperor’s soul once more – or be turned to evil by the Ruinous Powers.

Hmmmmmmm that doesn't sound familiar, does it?

Regardless, I now have been illuminated by the Thorians.

Putting my tin foil hat on,
Vladsimpaler

**ContemplativeSphinx**

Kanluwen wrote:
But it's important to remember that GW themselves have come out and said "This is no longer true". They've got Inquisition War and Space Marine available as they were, untouched and unedited with all the silliness still intact, so that new players can see exactly what madness was going on "back in the good old days".

There was an actual point in time where BL refused to republish Space Marine due to some....questionable scenes included.

Ian Watson has occasionally commented on writing a final book to the Inquisitor War, although i can't see how that's possible given the changes.

Then again - BL has a wonderful "Get out of Canon Free" statement...

"Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history...

Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.

Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths."

Courtesy of former publisher Marc Gascoigne.

**Kanluwen**

Just so you know that doesn't apply to what they published as "Heretic Tomes"--most notable of which are "Inquisition War" and "Space Marine".

The Black Library wrote:Believe us when we tell you that Space Marine is quite unlike any other Warhammer 40,000 novel you’ve ever read.

First published in 1993 – though completed some years earlier – at a time when the background to the Warhammer 40,000 universe was still in a state of flux and not yet fully coalesced, the book follows three young Imperial Fist recruits from their formative years in the underhive gangs of Necromunda through to fighting as part of the First Company within the bowels (literally!) of a Tyranid bioship.

Not only will you find squats in this novel –Tzeentch-worshiping squats at that – but also Space Marines controlling Titans, Space Marines with lasguns, the Pain Glove and more than a small amount of toilet humour. Oh, and a Zoat. How could we forget the Zoat?

Although the temptation was great to rewrite significant portions of this book to make it conform to current background, as a curiosity piece, an historical snapshot of the Warhammer 40,000 universe circa the early 1990s, this book is invaluable. It also serves as a shining example of what can happen when a respected genre author at the height of his powers is let loose on an established shared universe.

Black Library again wrote:Black Library FAQ wrote:Why do some Print on Demand titles have a Heretic Tomes logo on them?

Some of the titles in our back catalogue no longer accurately reflect the fictional universes of Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 and would require extensive rewriting to bring them up to date. Rather than keep these titles on the shelf, we’ve decided to reprint them but make it quite clear that these books are not to be considered an accurate portrayal of the Warhammer or Warhammer 40,000 universe.