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Ok, now if you are familiar with the space wolves codex, you will know that wolf scouts are ing epic, but for the rest of us, our SM scouts seem a little underpowered.
First off: SHOTGUNS, WTF?
They have an armour piercing that an ork could survive, and only have a range of 12".
Granted, these firearms do allow scouts to shoot AND assault, but in the 41st millennium? Shotguns? REALLY?
How the can we improve this weapon from antiquity, or should we send it back there, to remain forever?

You good sir, seem to have to move towards the nearest visible enemy unit in the movement phase....


Space marine ones are Troops. They can capture objectives. Don't give 'em shotguns... Easy enough. Give them Sniper Rifles. Nice Cheap 5 Man Rending Squad. 0-6 in one army.

Space Wolf Ones are Elites. 0-3 in an army.

But sniper rifles are only really great when you're facing opponents with crap armour saves, or high toughness. (wound on 4+ for a daemon prince? Yes Please!)
Still, what I'm bitchin' about here is the crappy weapons, where scouts need to be improved. I know sniper rifles are great and I totally agree with your point. (although they can't move and fire their rifles, so capturing objectives can be awkward.)

Also, Wolf Scouts can outflank, have melta bombs and meltaguns. I wouldn't give a wolf scout pack sniper rifles when I could equip 1 with a meltagun, 2 with power weapons and all of them having higher WS...

Scouts aren't meant to have superb-awesome-AP1-tastic weapons. They're not a game-changer in any form really, it's the units you use alongside them that really works. Infiltrate a squad of Scouts with a Locator Beacon, then DS Termies, Vanguard Vets, etc, then they have a use.

I'd say shotguns should have increased strength the closer they get to the enemy (against non-vehicle units only). Keep them AP- and it should be pretty fair.

That makes sense.
Also, Scout Sergeants are armed with chainswords, but if the rest of the squad has combat knives, then the chainsword has the same rules as a combat knife. Everybody's heard this one, but it's a point I have to make. Look in the rulebook: it says
"Chainswords are an iconic Astartes weapon that has made its reputation in bloody remains... ", or something to that effect, and then it says "chainswords count as close combat weapons "
..........................

Drake', I think you're getting a bit worked up over nothing tbh, there's not masses wrong with scouts and at least nothing that can't be relatively easily fixed IMHO.

I don't get it. Chainswords and Combat blades are all the same. What's the problem.

the fact that a big Chainsaw on a stick does the same thing as a sharp stabby thing...

Hey man, if you ever want to hit harder in 40k, just get mad and run at something. You'll hit it as hard as a 2-tonne servo-assisted superhuman does on average.

If you want to fix shotguns then either

1. R. 12 S4 AP -, Assault 2, Rending

2. R 18, S3* Ap 5(or 6) Assault 1

* for every 6" nearer to the firerer add +1 str. Ex 12" is Str 4, 6" is Str 5


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On that note this would be a 5ppm upgrade not a free one

Lightcavalier wrote:If you want to fix shotguns then either

1. R. 12 S4 AP -, Assault 2, Rending

Correct be if I'm wrong, but a "fix" to shotguns shouldn't involve making them capable of penetrating tanks and terminator armour?

Drakeslayer wrote:Ok, now if you are familiar with the space wolves codex, you will know that wolf scouts are ing epic, but for the rest of us, our SM scouts seem a little underpowered.
First off: SHOTGUNS, WTF?
They have an armour piercing that an ork could survive, and only have a range of 12".
Granted, these firearms do allow scouts to shoot AND assault, but in the 41st millennium? Shotguns? REALLY?
How the can we improve this weapon from antiquity, or should we send it back there, to remain forever?

you need to sit the feth down and take a break. Stop TALKING LIKE THIS. It annoys us.

You're missing the point of a shotgun. It is superb against marines. (for a scout.) because it is AP-.

Shotguns run on scouts make for good large squad cullers, but they mean you can't use heavy weapons.

Shotguns are fine as they are. Guard should get S4 AP- shotguns, but other than that, they are just how they should be.

Bloodhorror wrote:the fact that a big Chainsaw on a stick does the same thing as a sharp stabby thing...

well the fluff says combat blades are basically baby power weapons..... so yeah, their no butter knife

just not strong enough to penetrate armour, just skin