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Patch 1.3 is Finally up

Patch 1.3
http://www.scribd.com/doc/90785134
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ihUcnf9E3nnMYN0Jbq761ZdclCRJUWHc2ibSGp2d5so/edit


- added downsides to specializations
- removed sergants from some squads
- removed combine squad special rule
- removed chem cannon from chimera
- added Kasrkin squad
- remade storm troopers
- added storm shotguns
- Removed Leman Russ Destroyer
- Removed Destroyer Cannon
- Removed Leman Russ Initiator
- Added Heavy stubber side sponsors
- Added Heavy stubber as hull mounted weapon
- changed some doctrines to match 5th edition
- Added Storm Command Squad
- Changes on Ogryn squads
- Changed Xeno fighters to Flexible Fighters and changed what it gives
- Removed Sharpshooters
- Made changes to Infantry Platoon
- Added Heavy support platoon


See http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/440318.page for patch 1.2 and the original

Well I skipped everything and went straight to Kasrkin and Storm Troopers assuming they would be OP, and low and behold they were. I honly have like 3 minutes to type this, so I may not get everything done in which case I will make another post in an hour or so.

1. Why do Kasrkin get BS 5? They are just Cadian Storm Troopers and in no way should be better than Space Marines in the area of marksmanship.

2. for 20 points you get a 36" range assault 1 AP 3 strength 5 gun, that lone is probably enough reason to take them.

3. So my sergeant can take a strength 5 power sword or two lightning claws? Wow, what more could one want from a unit?

4. How about 2(4) special weapons including heavy flamers or plasma guns if for some reason you are risking your men for +1 AP and +2 strength.

That is all for now. I will be back.

Buttons wrote:
2. for 20 points you get a 36" range assault 1 AP 3 strength 5 gun, that lone is probably enough reason to take them.

Is that really such a big deal?

jgehunter wrote:

Buttons wrote:
2. for 20 points you get a 36" range assault 1 AP 3 strength 5 gun, that lone is probably enough reason to take them.

Is that really such a big deal?

Can wound marines on a 3+, Nurgle Marines on a 4+, and punch through power armour at the same range as a sniper rifle? I think it is actually a pretty big deal.

Now to continue my rant.

5. Terra plating seems odd, I mean the rules are simple, there is just no real reason for it, it makes them almost as tough to kill as marines.

6. Camo cloaks aren't game breaking alone, but combined with everything else it simply begins to stack too much on them. With camo cloaks one can reasonably expect to get a 3+ cover save and a 4+ armour save that can only be ignored by dedicated anti-MEQ weapons meaning that even if you use say a heavy flamer or a LR Eradicator they would still get an armour save.

Now onto Storm Troopers. TBH I was expecting worst, but to be fair you did put a lot of the horrors that I expected into Kasrkin.

1. Ignoring the weird options Kasrkin sergeants got as well, Storm Troopers got some strange crap for their leaders, particularly a thunderhammer and storm shield. It isn't really game breaking since they are so expensive it is more like a "I am fairly certain he put this stuff in here as a joke."

2. The option for four STs armed with power claws or power fists is simply hilarious as well. I would probably have a squad with a sergeant and 4 STs all armed with power fists simply because it is hilarious. Also they would probably smash Ogryn in a fight, didn't do the mathhammer, just guessed.

Overall Storm Troopers aren't unbalanced, just odd, like you just looked through other codexes and grabbed upgrades to throw at them.

I will comment on more later, I would just like to emphasis two major points.

1. LOVE the specialization system, I started in 5th, so I never got to have a codex with doctrines, and even if the system is crap (which I do not know since I haven't looked at it yet) I would like to thank you for trying at the very least. Guard armies need more diversity.

2. Storm Troopers and Kasrkin are effectively the same (fluffwise), comparing the two is like comparing Ultramarines to Blood Angels, they might have some pretty big differences as far as doctrine goes, but in the end they are both the same general unit. If you do want differences I suggest adding a specialization of some kind that simply offers different options, perhaps Kasrkin can be more anti-MEQ since they are right by the eye of terror, and generic storm troopers can be more anti-horde since they fight everywhere and probably spend most of their time fighting rebel worlds. An idea I had was to make a hellgun and hot-shot lasgun different weapons with different stats. The kasrkin models still are shown with hellguns (they still have to cord going to the backpack), so perhaps hellguns can be more anti-meq and HSLG can be more anti-horde, perhaps the former is rapid fire Str 4 AP 4, and the latter is assault 3 str 3 AP 5 or something.

Just looked at Ogryn and I felt bad. Ogryn are a pretty fun looking unit, they are simply so noncompetitive, yet you did nothing. At the very least drop their cost by 5 points. Also Ratlings and Conscripts are gone? They might not have been the very best choices in the game, but they were fun. At least conscripts with Chenkov was fun, I only care about Ratlings because I use regular IG sniper models for them because I like the IG sniper models.

Buttons wrote:
Can wound marines on a 3+, Nurgle Marines on a 4+, and punch through power armour at the same range as a sniper rifle? I think it is actually a pretty big deal.

And for 20pts you can kill at most 1 marine so it's not really devastating

jgehunter wrote:

Buttons wrote:
Can wound marines on a 3+, Nurgle Marines on a 4+, and punch through power armour at the same range as a sniper rifle? I think it is actually a pretty big deal.

And for 20pts you can kill at most 1 marine so it's not really devastating

20 points you can kill a marine at 36". Better than a bolter where you can only get 1 shot at 24" or a current HSLG where you can get a single shot at 18". Also, the squad is BS 5 and gets a 4+ armour save that requires AP 3 to ignore meaning that autocannons, heavy bolters, and heavy flamers still let them take an armour save.

Edit: Seems like it could be annoying, a squad of them camping in cover putting out 20 str 5 AP 3 shots per turn at up to 36"

That would be...400 points just for the guns, mind that I haven't actually read it so I suppose it's 20pts for each gun.

It is 20 points per model and 25 points for the sergeant, and since the guns are listed in equipment instead of upgrades it is assumed to be free with the unit. And yes, that is indeed expensive, but even ten can reasonably expect to kill off some marines, or even a MC in a few rounds of shooting. They are like sniper rifles only better because they are assault 1 and can punch through power armour. Also look at what else you get for 20 points, you get BS 5, you get a 4+ armour save that takes AP 3 weapons to ignore (meaning in order to ignore their armour you need dedicated anti-MEQ weapons). Also they can deepstrike, infiltrate, or scout. Oddly enough they don't have any dedicated transports available.

Now, they might not be OP, they may be OP, until they are play tested one should air on the side of caution. It is like making a special character, you don't want it to be OP at all because that just makes you look bad (almost as bad as having a grudge against upgrading storm troopers (that was a joke at my own expense, you are welcome)), so until it is played with one should air one the side of caution.

Ohh....now I see it, bad me for not actually reading it.

By the way you put it I thought it was 20 pt x upgrade.

I can have 9 Deathstrike Missile Launchers...
Odds are someone is gonna have a bad day...

purplefood wrote:I can have 9 Deathstrike Missile Launchers...
Odds are someone is gonna have a bad day...

You, for spending 1305 points on one shot weapons that might never fire because the enemy wipes out the entire battery with a few flanking meltas or something. Granted imagine that one in 10 million chance that you roll all sixes on the first turn and wipe out 90% of the enemy army.

Just realized that a PBS costs 110 points base cost in this codex because the overseer costs 70 points now instead of 20.

Buttons wrote:

Just realized that a PBS costs 110 points base cost in this codex because the overseer costs 70 points now instead of 20.

True.. didn't see that myself must change that.

Buttons wrote:it is 20 points per model and 25 points for the sergeant, and since the guns are listed in equipment instead of upgrades it is assumed to be free with the unit. And yes, that is indeed expensive, but even ten can reasonably expect to kill off some marines, or even a MC in a few rounds of shooting. They are like sniper rifles only better because they are assault 1 and can punch through power armour. Also look at what else you get for 20 points, you get BS 5, you get a 4+ armour save that takes AP 3 weapons to ignore (meaning in order to ignore their armour you need dedicated anti-MEQ weapons). Also they can deepstrike, infiltrate, or scout. Oddly enough they don't have any dedicated transports available.

Now, they might not be OP, they may be OP, until they are play tested one should air on the side of caution. It is like making a special character, you don't want it to be OP at all because that just makes you look bad (almost as bad as having a grudge against upgrading storm troopers (that was a joke at my own expense, you are welcome)), so until it is played with one should air one the side of caution.

Indeed they have not been play tested yet but in my eyes there are only useful heavy infantry and/or light vehicles hunting. and no they do not have a dedicated transport but they can get one from going airborne specialization which also grant them deep strike.

you said kasrkin can deep strike infiltrate or scout.

they have infiltrate and scout

deep strike only comes with airborne specialization

oh btw their weapon were made to penetrate a space marine's power armour in much the same way as a bolter penetrate flak armour

Buttons wrote:1. Why do Kasrkin get BS 5? They are just Cadian Storm Troopers and in no way should be better than Space Marines in the area of marksmanship.

2. for 20 points you get a 36" range assault 1 AP 3 strength 5 gun, that lone is probably enough reason to take them.

3. So my sergeant can take a strength 5 power sword or two lightning claws? Wow, what more could one want from a unit?

4. How about 2(4) special weapons including heavy flamers or plasma guns if for some reason you are risking your men for +1 AP and +2 strength.

5. Terra plating seems odd, I mean the rules are simple, there is just no real reason for it, it makes them almost as tough to kill as marines.

6. Camo cloaks aren't game breaking alone, but combined with everything else it simply begins to stack too much on them. With camo cloaks one can reasonably expect to get a 3+ cover save and a 4+ armour save that can only be ignored by dedicated anti-MEQ weapons meaning that even if you use say a heavy flamer or a LR Eradicator they would still get an armour save.

Now onto Storm Troopers. TBH I was expecting worst, but to be fair you did put a lot of the horrors that I expected into Kasrkin.

1. Ignoring the weird options Kasrkin sergeants got as well, Storm Troopers got some strange crap for their leaders, particularly a thunderhammer and storm shield. It isn't really game breaking since they are so expensive it is more like a "I am fairly certain he put this stuff in here as a joke."

2. The option for four STs armed with power claws or power fists is simply hilarious as well. I would probably have a squad with a sergeant and 4 STs all armed with power fists simply because it is hilarious. Also they would probably smash Ogryn in a fight, didn't do the mathhammer, just guessed.

Overall Storm Troopers aren't unbalanced, just odd, like you just looked through other codexes and grabbed upgrades to throw at them.

1. Karskin and and storm trooper are not the same. you will see a clear difference in the Imperial guard 4th edition codex (still they are both used as the elite choice "storm troopers").
You make it sound like a human being can't be better then a space marine at anything and that annoys me (a lot)

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_Trooper
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Kasrkin

when i read this they are indeed very similar but still not the same

2. Good you see my way of thinking. now even the almighty space marines must hide in cover

3. Problem is? Space marines have relic blade which is a S6 power weapon and lightning claws too.

4. They need some restrictions but if you HAVE to have them i can probably add them :p

5. Odd things are fun things. Have you ever tried to be a storm trooper deep striking behind enemy lanes to get 1 or 2 shots fired before an autogun, heavy flamer or heavy bolter kille you off?

terraplating doesn't make them near as tough as space marine.
Space marines still have WS4, BS4, S4, T4, I4, W1, A1, Ld 8/9 and 3+ save. to 16 points
Kasrkin squad are just WS3, BS5 S3, T3, I3, W1, A1, Ld 8/9 and a 4+ save to 20 points

lets see.

WS = SM win
BS = KGS win
S = SM win
T = SM win
I = SM win
W = draw
A = depends on what chapter we are comparing but these in the 5th codex = draw
Ld = depends on what chapter we are comparing but these in the 5th codex = Draw
Save = SM win

KGS = 1 win
SM = 5 wins
Draw = 2 (which depends on chapters)

but sure KGS is just a little tougher then the other guard squads.

6. Just like a Space marine with camo cloaks yeah?

To the Storm troopers:

first i must say thank you for believing in me :p

The reason for this is i happen to take a look at an old deamon hunter codex and there the storm troopers could be equiped with this, and im sure alot of IG player want some awesome close combat weapons on the awesome close combat elite choice.

otherwise i must say you sounds like a Space marines buttons, since you clearly don't want the poor guardsmen to be able to be 1/10 as cool as the space marines...

Buttons wrote:I will comment on more later, I would just like to emphasis two major points.

1. LOVE the specialization system, I started in 5th, so I never got to have a codex with doctrines, and even if the system is crap (which I do not know since I haven't looked at it yet) I would like to thank you for trying at the very least. Guard armies need more diversity.

2. Storm Troopers and Kasrkin are effectively the same (fluffwise), comparing the two is like comparing Ultramarines to Blood Angels, they might have some pretty big differences as far as doctrine goes, but in the end they are both the same general unit. If you do want differences I suggest adding a specialization of some kind that simply offers different options, perhaps Kasrkin can be more anti-MEQ since they are right by the eye of terror, and generic storm troopers can be more anti-horde since they fight everywhere and probably spend most of their time fighting rebel worlds. An idea I had was to make a hellgun and hot-shot lasgun different weapons with different stats. The kasrkin models still are shown with hellguns (they still have to cord going to the backpack), so perhaps hellguns can be more anti-meq and HSLG can be more anti-horde, perhaps the former is rapid fire Str 4 AP 4, and the latter is assault 3 str 3 AP 5 or something.

Just looked at Ogryn and I felt bad. Ogryn are a pretty fun looking unit, they are simply so noncompetitive, yet you did nothing. At the very least drop their cost by 5 points. Also Ratlings and Conscripts are gone? They might not have been the very best choices in the game, but they were fun. At least conscripts with Chenkov was fun, I only care about Ratlings because I use regular IG sniper models for them because I like the IG sniper models.

1. thank you

2. umm... no quite sure what you meant here

Ogryns costed 40 points in this edition and i nerfed their cost with 10 points. how can you say i didn't do anything?? still otherwise i do not know how to make em "funnier"

Ratlings are gone yeah. but there are something called heavy support platoon where you can take Special weapon squad (with infantry specialization) and have 6 guardsmen were 5 have sniper to 55 pts, or veterans 67 pts.

Constrips are still in the infantry platoon at troop choices. its just now the player can choose to either have platoon command and 2 infantry squads OR swap the infantry squads for constrips squads. While heavy weapon squads and Special weapons squads have their own platoon at heavy support.

Still enjoy your comments buttons so keep going

I have some quick points from glancing through. I might go back and dig deeper, but we'll see what my motivation is like.

Change the names of the new vehicles to something more in line with the current naming scheme. None of this LPGHWEJF WAQID 238TRU389 nonsense.

Kasrkin are not BS5. Sorry, no matter the fluff justification, it just doesn't make sense and it doesn't fix them. Also, the wargear is just bizarre, not a fan in the slightest.

The two command tank options need to be rear armour 11.

The armoured cars should not be more armoured than a chimera.

Lose all the lightning claw, hellblade, and stormshield options. Its just plain silly. Guard have access to powerfists and power swords, and should only be made available to sergeants and above due to their rarity.

Overall, I actually don't like what this codex is trying to do. It feels a lot like the current codex++. The specialization is a good idea, but the requirement to pick one doesn't sit right with me. Make it optional, because I could make a list I like without taking any specialization or doctrine. The fact that you lowered the price on several already competitive choices was not a good call.

While I applaud your effort, I think you've made some weird design choices, and some poor ones too. I think you need to retain some the current prices for competitive choices, like hydras, and tweak the specialization a lot more.

Dark wolf44 wrote:

Buttons wrote:

Just realized that a PBS costs 110 points base cost in this codex because the overseer costs 70 points now instead of 20.

True.. didn't see that myself must change that.

No worries.

Buttons wrote:it is 20 points per model and 25 points for the sergeant, and since the guns are listed in equipment instead of upgrades it is assumed to be free with the unit. And yes, that is indeed expensive, but even ten can reasonably expect to kill off some marines, or even a MC in a few rounds of shooting. They are like sniper rifles only better because they are assault 1 and can punch through power armour. Also look at what else you get for 20 points, you get BS 5, you get a 4+ armour save that takes AP 3 weapons to ignore (meaning in order to ignore their armour you need dedicated anti-MEQ weapons). Also they can deepstrike, infiltrate, or scout. Oddly enough they don't have any dedicated transports available.

Now, they might not be OP, they may be OP, until they are play tested one should air on the side of caution. It is like making a special character, you don't want it to be OP at all because that just makes you look bad (almost as bad as having a grudge against upgrading storm troopers (that was a joke at my own expense, you are welcome)), so until it is played with one should air one the side of caution.

Indeed they have not been play tested yet but in my eyes there are only useful heavy infantry and/or light vehicles hunting. and no they do not have a dedicated transport but they can get one from going airborne specialization which also grant them deep strike.

you said kasrkin can deep strike infiltrate or scout.

they have infiltrate and scout

deep strike only comes with airborne specialization

oh btw their weapon were made to penetrate a space marine's power armour in much the same way as a bolter penetrate flak armour

Still, being useful against heavy infantry and MCs is still quite a bit, they are like super snipers since they have the same range, are assault 1 instead of heavy 1 (granted I probably wouldn't move them much anyway), wound marines on a 3+, and can penetrate power armour.

Buttons wrote:1. Why do Kasrkin get BS 5? They are just Cadian Storm Troopers and in no way should be better than Space Marines in the area of marksmanship.

2. for 20 points you get a 36" range assault 1 AP 3 strength 5 gun, that lone is probably enough reason to take them.

3. So my sergeant can take a strength 5 power sword or two lightning claws? Wow, what more could one want from a unit?

4. How about 2(4) special weapons including heavy flamers or plasma guns if for some reason you are risking your men for +1 AP and +2 strength.

5. Terra plating seems odd, I mean the rules are simple, there is just no real reason for it, it makes them almost as tough to kill as marines.

6. Camo cloaks aren't game breaking alone, but combined with everything else it simply begins to stack too much on them. With camo cloaks one can reasonably expect to get a 3+ cover save and a 4+ armour save that can only be ignored by dedicated anti-MEQ weapons meaning that even if you use say a heavy flamer or a LR Eradicator they would still get an armour save.

Now onto Storm Troopers. TBH I was expecting worst, but to be fair you did put a lot of the horrors that I expected into Kasrkin.

1. Ignoring the weird options Kasrkin sergeants got as well, Storm Troopers got some strange crap for their leaders, particularly a thunderhammer and storm shield. It isn't really game breaking since they are so expensive it is more like a "I am fairly certain he put this stuff in here as a joke."

2. The option for four STs armed with power claws or power fists is simply hilarious as well. I would probably have a squad with a sergeant and 4 STs all armed with power fists simply because it is hilarious. Also they would probably smash Ogryn in a fight, didn't do the mathhammer, just guessed.

Overall Storm Troopers aren't unbalanced, just odd, like you just looked through other codexes and grabbed upgrades to throw at them.

1. Karskin and and storm trooper are not the same. you will see a clear difference in the Imperial guard 4th edition codex (still they are both used as the elite choice "storm troopers").
You make it sound like a human being can't be better then a space marine at anything and that annoys me (a lot)

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_Trooper
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Kasrkin

when i read this they are indeed very similar but still not the same

2. Good you see my way of thinking. now even the almighty space marines must hide in cover

3. Problem is? Space marines have relic blade which is a S6 power weapon and lightning claws too.

4. They need some restrictions but if you HAVE to have them i can probably add them :p

5. Odd things are fun things. Have you ever tried to be a storm trooper deep striking behind enemy lanes to get 1 or 2 shots fired before an autogun, heavy flamer or heavy bolter kille you off?

terraplating doesn't make them near as tough as space marine.
Space marines still have WS4, BS4, S4, T4, I4, W1, A1, Ld 8/9 and 3+ save. to 16 points
Kasrkin squad are just WS3, BS5 S3, T3, I3, W1, A1, Ld 8/9 and a 4+ save to 20 points

lets see.

WS = SM win
BS = KGS win
S = SM win
T = SM win
I = SM win
W = draw
A = depends on what chapter we are comparing but these in the 5th codex = draw
Ld = depends on what chapter we are comparing but these in the 5th codex = Draw
Save = SM win

KGS = 1 win
SM = 5 wins
Draw = 2 (which depends on chapters)

but sure KGS is just a little tougher then the other guard squads.

6. Just like a Space marine with camo cloaks yeah?

To the Storm troopers:

first i must say thank you for believing in me :p

The reason for this is i happen to take a look at an old deamon hunter codex and there the storm troopers could be equiped with this, and im sure alot of IG player want some awesome close combat weapons on the awesome close combat elite choice.

otherwise i must say you sounds like a Space marines buttons, since you clearly don't want the poor guardsmen to be able to be 1/10 as cool as the space marines...

1. I have never played 4th ed. can you tell me the major differences? Also, non-special characters can be better than marines, it is just hard. Look at a Lord Commissar, he was raised in the same schools as storm troopers, and has been serving the Imperium for decades just to get WS and BS 5.

2. Except the problem is you are pretty much making Kasrkin an auto go. One of the interesting things about the Guard is that elite options aren't the first thing people go for once they have their 1 HQ and 2 troops, they generally decide to stock up on tanks or artillery or Vendettas, or more troops. With your codex it seems very easy to simply spam Kasrkin and deathstrike missiles and kill almost anyone. You camp in cover with 20 Kasrkin, if an enemy transport is 36" away you shoot, you will average about 17 hits, about 3 glances, and a pretty good chance of an immobilized result meaning that the marines will have to foot slog against your Kasrkin who are shooting them with strength 5 AP 3 fire throughout the game. If you are facing a deepstriking army, no problem, they shoot at you, you can take a cover or armour save unless they have AP 3 weapons in which case you get just the cover save, and return fire with almost 20 AP 3 str 5 BS 5 shots. When it comes to enemy tanks one of your nine deathstrikes or Manticores should be able to deal with it.

3. Space marines are also THE versatile army, it is their niche, Guard has long range firepower, Tau has mid range firepower (not to say they are a good army), Blood Angels are CQB oriented, and vanilla marines are jack of all trades, and can be a shooty or assaulty army. Also, I thought only stuff like assault marine sergeants or Captains, or Vanguard marine sergeants could take those upgrades.

4. Ha ha. Please don't. :(

5. You do realize that space marines are so good because they are centuries old and have the geneseed of a super human primarch right? Also, why should Kasrkin be so good? Eldar aspect warriors train their entire lives in a tiny area of combat just to get BS and WS 4. Also terra plating does make them tougher to kill, it allows them to get a 4+ save against heavy flamers and the IG cover ignoring tanks, offering them from the more common anti-cover weapons.

6. You mean scouts that have either snipers or shotguns as well as regular carapace armour that can be penetrated by a heavy flamer?

1. I expect everyone who makes a guard codex to overcompensate for storm troopers, it isn't just you.

2. I am not a space marine player, I am a guard player, and part of what makes the guard cool is that they are the little guys. This puny human with a strength 3 AP- weapon might not be able to kill a space marine alone, but through discipline, and numbers they will hold the line against Daemons, 8 foot tall soldiers, and pale elves who torture people to death to surive. When you give the Guard all these awesome guns and abilities it looks less like regular humans and more like marines lite.

Buttons wrote:I will comment on more later, I would just like to emphasis two major points.

1. LOVE the specialization system, I started in 5th, so I never got to have a codex with doctrines, and even if the system is crap (which I do not know since I haven't looked at it yet) I would like to thank you for trying at the very least. Guard armies need more diversity.

2. Storm Troopers and Kasrkin are effectively the same (fluffwise), comparing the two is like comparing Ultramarines to Blood Angels, they might have some pretty big differences as far as doctrine goes, but in the end they are both the same general unit. If you do want differences I suggest adding a specialization of some kind that simply offers different options, perhaps Kasrkin can be more anti-MEQ since they are right by the eye of terror, and generic storm troopers can be more anti-horde since they fight everywhere and probably spend most of their time fighting rebel worlds. An idea I had was to make a hellgun and hot-shot lasgun different weapons with different stats. The kasrkin models still are shown with hellguns (they still have to cord going to the backpack), so perhaps hellguns can be more anti-meq and HSLG can be more anti-horde, perhaps the former is rapid fire Str 4 AP 4, and the latter is assault 3 str 3 AP 5 or something.

Just looked at Ogryn and I felt bad. Ogryn are a pretty fun looking unit, they are simply so noncompetitive, yet you did nothing. At the very least drop their cost by 5 points. Also Ratlings and Conscripts are gone? They might not have been the very best choices in the game, but they were fun. At least conscripts with Chenkov was fun, I only care about Ratlings because I use regular IG sniper models for them because I like the IG sniper models.

1. thank you

2. umm... no quite sure what you meant here

Ogryns costed 40 points in this edition and i nerfed their cost with 10 points. how can you say i didn't do anything?? still otherwise i do not know how to make em "funnier"

Ratlings are gone yeah. but there are something called heavy support platoon where you can take Special weapon squad (with infantry specialization) and have 6 guardsmen were 5 have sniper to 55 pts, or veterans 67 pts.

Constrips are still in the infantry platoon at troop choices. its just now the player can choose to either have platoon command and 2 infantry squads OR swap the infantry squads for constrips squads. While heavy weapon squads and Special weapons squads have their own platoon at heavy support.

Still enjoy your comments buttons so keep going

Buttons wrote:

purplefood wrote:I can have 9 Deathstrike Missile Launchers...
Odds are someone is gonna have a bad day...

You, for spending 1305 points on one shot weapons that might never fire because the enemy wipes out the entire battery with a few flanking meltas or something. Granted imagine that one in 10 million chance that you roll all sixes on the first turn and wipe out 90% of the enemy army.

Just realized that a PBS costs 110 points base cost in this codex because the overseer costs 70 points now instead of 20.

Worth it.
The havoc i could wreck would be extrodinary...
In a bigger game (say 2,500) i could just spend 1,200 points on bubble wrap...

i just noticed that all comments are on the kasrkin squad O.o (ignoring the Canadian that sound waaaay to negative)

so lets strike a deal.

how about making Kasrkin squads BS 4, make their weapon Heavy 1, range 24" and give them option to be twin-linked for +5 pts pr model?

because all i see is the BS 5 that makes the comments (aside for the range, S5 and AP 3)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh.. and no worries everyone can see/make mistake when looking on a 28 paged document xD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:

Buttons wrote:

purplefood wrote:I can have 9 Deathstrike Missile Launchers...
Odds are someone is gonna have a bad day...

You, for spending 1305 points on one shot weapons that might never fire because the enemy wipes out the entire battery with a few flanking meltas or something. Granted imagine that one in 10 million chance that you roll all sixes on the first turn and wipe out 90% of the enemy army.

Just realized that a PBS costs 110 points base cost in this codex because the overseer costs 70 points now instead of 20.

Worth it.
The havoc i could wreck would be extrodinary...
In a bigger game (say 2,500) i could just spend 1,200 points on bubble wrap...

Deathstrike missile launcher can't be fired the first turn anyway

and even if you go mechanized specialization and in large games and buys your 9 deathstrikes and just happens to get capture and control or seize ground you will find yourself lacking something reliable.

Deathstrike missile launcher are hard to get off and even harder to hit targets with because it will always scatter full distance on the 2D6

Dark wolf44 wrote:(ignoring the Canadian that sound waaaay to negative)

I'm sorry you feel that way about my posting style. I don't do 'happy sparkle nice comments' when offering critique on a fan dex or proposed rule. Let me re-iterate that I applaud you for your effort, and the overall idea/concept is good, its just needs a lot of tweaking to execute it better.

Then again, you're always free to ignore me regardless. *Shrug*

sorry but i don't ignore people since all comments are welcome. but i saw your comment in both this and 3 other threads where i didn't get any "glow" from you and i quess it went automatically as negative and i think is should say this some of your comments were in my eyes stupid.

I have some quick points from glancing through. I might go back and dig deeper, but we'll see what my motivation is like.

Change the names of the new vehicles to something more in line with the current naming scheme. None of this LPGHWEJF WAQID 238TRU389 nonsense.

Kasrkin are not BS5. Sorry, no matter the fluff justification, it just doesn't make sense and it doesn't fix them. Also, the wargear is just bizarre, not a fan in the slightest.

The two command tank options need to be rear armour 11.

The armoured cars should not be more armoured than a chimera.

Lose all the lightning claw, hellblade, and stormshield options. Its just plain silly. Guard have access to powerfists and power swords, and should only be made available to sergeants and above due to their rarity.

Overall, I actually don't like what this codex is trying to do. It feels a lot like the current codex++. The specialization is a good idea, but the requirement to pick one doesn't sit right with me. Make it optional, because I could make a list I like without taking any specialization or doctrine. The fact that you lowered the price on several already competitive choices was not a good call.

While I applaud your effort, I think you've made some weird design choices, and some poor ones too. I think you need to retain some the current prices for competitive choices, like hydras, and tweak the specialization a lot more.

all have said i should change names on da vehicles but i don't get any so... its just gonna be that way until someone come with a better name.

about the kasrkin i don't know why BS 5 is such a big deal since they have an 85% chance to hit while a BS 4 model with twin linked has a 87% chance to hit (and oh my ALOT of SPACE marines can get twin linked)

why should they have rear 11? they are after all the command tanks and their job is to protect the commander/commissar inside so redusing armour is not an option.

why shoulod armoured cars have less protection then a chimera? chimera is a dedicated transport and a armoured care is a bane wolf/ devil dog/ hellhound with wheels and removed weapons (and added a autocannon) to be a "capture vehicle"

silly.... (<----- this is were i get the negative part!) since power sword and power fist are so "rare" how come SPACE marines don't use them? i wait... they have BETTER things that SHOULD be even rareier (is it even a word?). they have awesome stuff like lightning claws, thunder hammer, stormshield and what does the guardsmen get? not even a combat shield...

Space marines can make a hardcore captain/chapter master with 2+ save, 3+ invulnerable save, 3 attacks with WS 6, S8 ignore armour save, Ld 10, 3 wounds. And SPACE wolves are even worse with a fuc*ing wolf lord... 2+ save, 3+ invulnerable 5 attacks with WS 6 S10 ignore armour save, Ld 10, 3 wounds and are S5 T5 base, not to even include saga of the warrior born he's fuc*ing SICK!

IG can't make anyone as cool as that. we get 4 save, 5+ invulnerable, 3 attacks with WS 4 and S6 ignore armour save, 3 wound and are T3!

in my codex you at least can get an HQ as they should be! Leading the charge and manage to slay stuff!

THe most awesome you can get in the 5th codex is yarrick and straken (they are lovely with a feel no pain to )

Dark wolf44 wrote:sorry but i don't ignore people since all comments are welcome. but i saw your comment in both this and 3 other threads where i didn't get any "glow" from you and i quess it went automatically as negative and i think is should say this some of your comments were in my eyes stupid.

That's fine. I know I sound harsh at time, but I just don't do happy sparkle nice stuff.

all have said i should change names on da vehicles but i don't get any so... its just gonna be that way until someone come with a better name.

That was my attempt at sarcasm/humour. The names should fit better, though.

about the kasrkin i don't know why BS 5 is such a big deal since they have an 85% chance to hit while a BS 4 model with twin linked has a 87% chance to hit (and oh my ALOT of SPACE marines can get twin linked)

It just doesn't make sense. BS4 is the level of a highly trained, shooting specialist. That's what Kasrkin are. BS4 is perfect for them.

why should they have rear 11? they are after all the command tanks and their job is to protect the commander/commissar inside so redusing armour is not an option.

Because the overwhelming vast majority of vehicles are rear AV10, a small percent are 11, an even smaller are 12 (stormravens), and only LR and Monoliths are AV14 all around. Assuming this vehicle is a Leman Russ variant, R AV11 is more than enough. There's no real justification for R AV12, as Demolishers and variants are designed to be uparmoured. It also has the added benefit of not being confusing to your opponent.

why shoulod armoured cars have less protection then a chimera? chimera is a dedicated transport and a armoured care is a bane wolf/ devil dog/ hellhound with wheels and removed weapons (and added a autocannon) to be a "capture vehicle"

Because there is not a whole lot of logic that a wheeled car should be more armoured than a treaded, combat IFV. I picture them being 11/11/10, or 11/10/10.

silly.... (<----- this is were i get the negative part!) since power sword and power fist are so "rare" how come SPACE marines don't use them? i wait... they have BETTER things that SHOULD be even rareier (is it even a word?). they have awesome stuff like lightning claws, thunder hammer, stormshield and what does the guardsmen get? not even a combat shield...

Space Marines do use powerfists and power swords. Quite a bit actually. Power swords and fists are rare in IG and are normally reserved for officers, and some lucky sergeants. There is no fluff justification for Guard to have access to stormshields and other incredibly rare close combat weapons. Also consider that the Guard is a shooting oriented force, both on the table and in the fluff. There's a reason they don't get access to special close combat weapons. It just doesn't make sense, hence the 'silly' thing I said.

Space marines can make a hardcore captain/chapter master with 2+ save, 3+ invulnerable save, 3 attacks with WS 6, S8 ignore armour save, Ld 10, 3 wounds. And SPACE wolves are even worse with a fuc*ing wolf lord... 2+ save, 3+ invulnerable 5 attacks with WS 6 S10 ignore armour save, Ld 10, 3 wounds and are S5 T5 base, not to even include saga of the warrior born he's fuc*ing SICK!

That's their schtick. Its what marines do. Guard shoots, Marines enjoy shooting as much as fighting in close combat. If you want a super awesome close combat character, go play marines. Guard doesn't do that, nor should they.

IG can't make anyone as cool as that. we get 4 save, 5+ invulnerable, 3 attacks with WS 4 and S6 ignore armour save, 3 wound and are T3!

in my codex you at least can get an HQ as they should be! Leading the charge and manage to slay stuff!

And that's the way it should be. There's no reason for IG to be some sort of uber awesome close combat army. Leave that to the other codices.

I'm not gonna play the spezz marines! in chase you haven't noticed it i hate em.

what looks silly in your space marines eyes looks awesome in my eyes.

storm trooper could get storm shield, thunderhammer, lighning claw in 4th edition. and they should countine to be able to. (but now in 5th edition there are no such thing as allies anymore....)

why not just make an Allies Codex then? even these guys would think it's fine because they know people like the Inquisitors can get away with almost anything.

Dark wolf44 wrote:I'm not gonna play the spezz marines! in chase you haven't noticed it i hate em.

That isn't enough reason to not balance a proposed codex. In fact, its a good reason to take other peoples opinions in and change stuff, if you are admittedly biased.

Dark wolf44 wrote:what looks silly in your space marines eyes looks awesome in my eyes.

See above

Dark wolf44 wrote:storm trooper could get storm shield, thunderhammer, lighning claw in 4th edition. and they should countine to be able to. (but now in 5th edition there are no such thing as allies anymore....)

Really? Was fourth ed the one with doctrines, commissar gaunt, command squads with sentinels, heavy and special weapons attached, etc? I can't remember storm shields, lightning claws and thunderhammers on offer....

they could be taken as allies from the deamon hunter codex. they were called inquistorial storm troopers (troop choice) Veteran storm trooper could choose lightning claws, storm shield, thunder hammer as such.

and yes it is with the doctrines, commissar gaunt, schlaffer last chancers


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they could even have power armour and artificer armour wtf!? and alot of other space marines equpiment!
this is awesome! xD



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Lotet wrote:why not just make an Allies Codex then? even these guys would think it's fine because they know people like the Inquisitors can get away with almost anything.

not a bad idea hmm...

Dark wolf44 wrote:they could be taken as allies from the deamon hunter codex. they were called inquistorial storm troopers (troop choice) Veteran storm trooper could choose lightning claws, storm shield, thunder hammer as such.

Ohh, you are talking about those storm troopers...Well the problem there is that they aren't guard, they belong to the inquisition. So the guard still couldn't get that kit. Just the inquisition.

They definitely couldn't take that kit with the codex you are talking about.

Aw............. thats just unfair..... me want some cool stuff...

Guard have tanks coming out the wazoo, ogres with guns they can beat people to pulps with, commissars, halflings with sniper rifles, and RAMBO.

We have cool stuff already. You don't need to add the cool stuff which belongs to other armies to make us cool

well i like infantry better than tanks (probably the reason i don't win much xD) and ogres are waaay to expensive, commissar with WS4 W1 and I3 even da space marines hit before they will... haflings are T2 (space marines wound on a 2+ :O) and Marbo is well... how can i brake it up to you... Lame? :p

Well the space marines hit before the commissar because the commissar is human. You can't complain that your human is hitting after the super-humans. That is just...nonsensical. And ratlings were just an example of the fun stuff guard have, I don't use them. And Marbo is lame? He is the bane of my gaming group, he can dictate deployment and movement to an extent, he is pretty damn good.

For the record, I second pretty much all of Blacksail's and Button's points.

My biggest issue with this codex is that it pushes the IG towards the "WW2 in speeesh" theme, that i personally hate. They should be dead crazy with a "balls of steel" and "sanity is for the weak" vibe. I mean, come on, they fight against the stuff of everyone's nightmares on a daily basis, and they usually win!

My other problems:
- Specializations are rather weirdly balanced. I mean, there are two with strong restrictions (Inf6Mech) and two what only give extra options without any drawbacks
- The doctrines are kinda' underrepresented. There should be much-much more of them, and they should be stronger.
- I think the Offcier of the HQ command squad accidentaly got the Priest's "other wargear" options.
- You should reduce the Rear armour of the HQ tanks to 11 or increase their points by +20/30. Rear armour 12 could be a pretty hard nut to crack for some armies.
- I strongly advise to remove the Kasrkin from the codex. i man they are Cadian near-storm troopers, and thus, they shouldn't be available for everyone in the galaxy.
- The PBS is kinda' overpriced.
- Overall, the Leites selection of your codex is extremely weak. Especially because the best choice (STs) can be troops with maybe the best specialization (Airborne).
- Uh i dunno, but i think you forgot the Combined Squads special rule for the Infanry Squads.
- Veterans are now the ultimate Troops selection: cheaper (cost halved as i only need to take 5 guys for the same job), with the option to take a Fast, Open-Topped Chimera (except that this Chimera is cheaper!). I take them over the Platoons anytime!
- Air Striker vets are only BS3. Is this intentional?
- The armoured car and the half-track are weird. They are almost as well armoured as a medium tank, and while the armoured car is simply super-overpriced (and generally useless), the half-track is a must-have beast for 100 points. So, i dunno, maybe you should remove them both, as they make little sense.
- Where are the Sentinels ?
- The price-drop on the Leman Russ tanks is massive. And they make very little sense for me: a Leman Russ costs tless than a Hellhound?

So you hate Space Marines but basically want to make Guardsmen into them?