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Hey, I was just wondering if there is any good way to play Calgar in a 1500 list. because I like the abillities and the model a lot

Cheers,

by paying 265pts and sticking him with Assault Terminators for maximum smackage.

Since he's already 1/6th of your army, might as well focus the army around him wrecking gak.

Assault Terminators, Land Raider Crusader, Calgar. Might not be very competitive, but hey, it'll make your opponent sweat.

(and, if you are in a real mean streak, find 3 other heavy supports to get, since, Land Raiders are dedicated for the first Terminator Squad.)

Sounds pretty cool, I am just playing with a group of friends so this should be fun to field one time

If your throwing a death star like that out there, try and squeeze in vulkan as well. Because hell, you might as well while your ruining their day :')

I tried so hard to use Marneus.
Once he gets outside his transport, my wussy friends just run and shot him and his squad to death.
When you play him at that low of a point game you are usually outnumbered and you don't got wings or anything else to close the gap

To be fair, units that are killy but have terrible range can still be used well in defensive positions. Unless you have a raider, it's going to be more than a little difficult to get him into close combat on your terms, but he can still be an effective countercharge force.

Not that SM have problems in close combat and could use someone to help swat away fast CC threats....

Give him a bodyguard of 10 tactical terminators with twin cyclones and just wander around shooting things.

Use Marneus to soak up AP2 shots that would hurt your terminators.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Give him a bodyguard of 10 tactical terminators with twin cyclones and just wander around shooting things.

Use Marneus to soak up AP2 shots that would hurt your terminators.

I like that tactic

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Give him a bodyguard of 10 tactical terminators with twin cyclones and just wander around shooting things.

Use Marneus to soak up AP2 shots that would hurt your terminators.

Seems legit. Lysander is much better at that though

I would try to make use of his multiple Honor Guard rule somehow

He's actually a great HQ for a space marine gun line as your squads will never fail a morale check. Get him a small uber killy squad (I would go with honour guard with banner and a libby to give them a 5++) keep Calgar in power armour put everybody in a razorback or rhino and send them forward while your tacts, scouts, devastators shoot away. Don't know if you'll fit all that at the 1500pts level though...

yeah the 10 man termy squad and Big ole' double fist is like 750 points with a LR that is ~1k..
If you want to deathstar its cool.
I tried it against Necrons.
The scarabs made quick work of the LR
A damn doomsday ark with its AP2 large blast killed more than a couple terminators.
I was playing TH/SS assault termies which probably made my life a lot harder than it should of been

speedo wrote:

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Give him a bodyguard of 10 tactical terminators with twin cyclones and just wander around shooting things.

Use Marneus to soak up AP2 shots that would hurt your terminators.

Seems legit. Lysander is much better at that though

I would try to make use of his multiple Honor Guard rule somehow

True, and his re-rolls on the storm bolters compensate for the lack of his own weapons.

The question though was how to use Marneus Calgar.

I used Calgar to great success by following 2 rules, and using two different tactics.

Rule 1 - Calgar never wanders "forward" alone.
Rule 2 - Always remember that people like to shoot the big guys, whether it is smart to or not.

So what this means is that you have two choices.
First, is to sit him in the back or mid-back and use him to contest objectives/clear out contenders.
Second, as many have said, is to group him with some Termies and have him lead the charge. Rule 2 comes into play here, so don't expect him to live too long, the idea is to buy all your other units safety.

Thanks for the thoughts!

AllYourBase wrote:yeah the 10 man termy squad and Big ole' double fist is like 750 points with a LR that is ~1k..
If you want to deathstar its cool.
I tried it against Necrons.
The scarabs made quick work of the LR
A damn doomsday ark with its AP2 large blast killed more than a couple terminators.
I was playing TH/SS assault termies which probably made my life a lot harder than it should of been

Doomsday Ark is AP1, but still.

Anyway, what Calgar unlocks costs far too much to be used effectively in smaller point games (really, anything under 2500 points), simply because they cost too much. You could put Pedro in the army as well, and get four Honor Guard units on the field, but why? Relic Blades? That'd be several dozen attacks per maxed out unit with8in 12" of Pedro (with Chapter Banner), and it would be glorious, but really, really expensive. Probably half of your army.

I like the gunline suggestion the best.

I'd save Calgar/Assault Terminators/Crusader for a bigger list, in a 1,500pt list all it'll do is point every single Ordnance weapon/Lance weapon/suicide melta unit in the other guy's army straight at your one poor little tank and blow it into tiny, tiny pieces on turn one.

If you can't afford a Raider, use him in power armor in your gunline and he'll scare stuff off.

Eternal Warrior 4 Wound Two Power Fist AP2 storm bolter of dooooooom.

(5 attacks if you use the fists, i'd be a bit worried about charging that.)

Yeah my point is that he costs too many points
I tried it for funzies, it was a casual game against my friend
He just is not mobile enough to be useful @ 1500
Yeah he can work in a gunline but a libby nullzoning and giving you 5++ seems good too for ~125 less points
But damn, if you get him into Close.. its GG, he has like 4 STR 4 AP2 shots and like 6 attacks on the charge..

Two expensive at that level of a game. I did use him in an 1850 game with an Honor guard unit, and he rocked! The necron player just kept repeating, "I've never seen anyone use Calgar before..."

I stuck him in a Redeemer with an Honour guard of 4, one with banner, a few relic blades and just went to town. He really shined throughout once I delivered him where I wanted him.

But I couldn't justify him in anything less than 1750, even then he better be your main CC punch with some follow up support nearby to capture what he clears out.

speedo wrote:

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Give him a bodyguard of 10 tactical terminators with twin cyclones and just wander around shooting things.

Use Marneus to soak up AP2 shots that would hurt your terminators.

Seems legit. Lysander is much better at that though

I would try to make use of his multiple Honor Guard rule somehow

MUCH better. Lysander can take more hurt, costs less points, and has str10 attack for anything that gets close.

Plus, I mathhammered it a few months ago, and lysander is (only just barely) able to beat Calgar in CC, though there is a 99.9999999% chance that whoever gets the charge will win.

Je suis2 au hazard wrote:

speedo wrote:Seems legit. Lysander is much better at that though

I would try to make use of his multiple Honor Guard rule somehow

MUCH better. Lysander can take more hurt, costs less points, and has str10 attack for anything that gets close.

Plus, I mathhammered it a few months ago, and lysander is (only just barely) able to beat Calgar in CC, though there is a 99.9999999% chance that whoever gets the charge will win.

Well, I would be the one to know since I actually run it. Bolter Drill and his cost are really what makes the difference, the rest is negligent

McNinja wrote:Anyway, what Calgar unlocks costs far too much to be used effectively in smaller point games (really, anything under 2500 points), simply because they cost too much. You could put Pedro in the army as well, and get four Honor Guard units on the field, but why? Relic Blades? That'd be several dozen attacks per maxed out unit with8in 12" of Pedro (with Chapter Banner), and it would be glorious, but really, really expensive. Probably half of your army.

Humor me here:

Calgar 250
5 Honor Guard w/ digital lasers & Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun 270
5 Honor Guard w/ relic blade & Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun 275
5 Honor Guard w/ relic blade & Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun 275
5 Sniper Scouts w/ camo cloaks 90
5 Sniper Scouts w/ camo cloaks 90
Dreadnought w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons 125
Dreadnought w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons 125
1500

Sure, it's not a great TAC list, but it seems like a cool casual list with a pretty nasty cream filling. Of course, it would have to worry about capturing objectives and armies that bring lots of AP2 or AV13. Still, if I were to bother with Calgar at 1500 points, I'd run something like this since less eccentric options are better off accompanied by more cost effective HQ choices IMO. Cheers

Combat Ability
Calgar does not stand toe to toe with another 250 point character. Abbadon will take his lunch money every day of the week. If you compare him to a 200 point character hes more in line.

In normal assaults he can either punch 5 times with power fists, or use his power sword. The power sword should be called a lighting claw, as it allows him to reroll failed to wounds. That means each swing will wounds 75% of the time on T4. However, if you expect Marneus to live, then the PFs are solid options.
This also applies to his integrated bolters, which are nice AP2, Assault 2 weapons. It's a nice way to throw extra wounds on incoming infantry.

Gear for Calgar
Power armor is the way to go in a KP denial list. Any ranged weapons hitting him are going to not going to give him a normal save, or will be allocated to another bullet catcher in the squad. if you have an extra 15 points floating around, you can consider using him for that role.
If you want to use deep striking termies in your army, then his armor does have a teleporter homer, which is nice.


God of War
So if Marneus is roughly a 200 point character, that means your paying 50 points for the ability for your army to auto-pass any morale test -- a decent price IMHO for what that gives, especially in larger games. This is better than fearless for the following reasons.
* You can ignore pinning
* You can ignore psyker battle squads
* You never take fearless wounds when you lose assault -- even if you lose it by 8. You just pass the test.


How this effects KP denial lists
If your going to use Calgar, maximize his ability to make your army be a pain in the ass to shift at range. I would go with an all-infantry army full of TACs, Sternguard, Devs, Terminators. They literally have to kill every one of your models to take you off the board. If your assaulted, they have to kill every model, and cannot rely upon fearless wounds to help out.
This also makes the PF in squads much more effective, as your opponent has to kill every model in the squad before getting to the PF.
Remember, in KP denial lists, your job is to sit on more objectives than your opponent and not be shifted. In KP missions, you just need to shoot up a few transports and then weather the shooting storm.


Bombs Away
Don't forget to also use the Orbital Bombardment that Clagar comes with. Sure, it scatters 2/3 of the time, but a STR 10, AP1, large blast template is nothing to sneeze at. If you place it over a large vehicle, such as a stormraven, there is a decent chance of still hitting it.


Example 1850 List
This list has 60 models on the table that have to be killed to a man. There are a total of 9 LCs in the list to pick up KPs. The sternguard have a number of options for shooting, such as 30" bolters or AP3 bolters, which makes them a threat to GK at range. The librarian is there to teleport squads up to grab objectives. This list brings 8 KPs total.
HQ
Calgar
Librarian w/Gate and Null Zone

Troops
10 Man TAC Squad (*3)
w/PG, LC, and PF sergeant

Elite
10 Man Sternguard (*3)
w/2 LCs

speedo wrote:
Calgar 250
5 Honor Guard w/ digital lasers & Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun 270
5 Honor Guard w/ relic blade & Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun 275
5 Honor Guard w/ relic blade & Razorback w/ lascannon & twin-linked plasma gun 275
5 Sniper Scouts w/ camo cloaks 90
5 Sniper Scouts w/ camo cloaks 90
Dreadnought w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons 125
Dreadnought w/ 2 twin-linked autocannons 125
1500

Sure, it's not a great TAC list, but it seems like a cool casual list with a pretty nasty cream filling. Of course, it would have to worry about capturing objectives and armies that bring lots of AP2 or AV13. Still, if I were to bother with Calgar at 1500 points, I'd run something like this since less eccentric options are better off accompanied by more cost effective HQ choices IMO. Cheers

I like this list. I might run it when I get my army built.

labmouse42 wrote:From earlier post
Calgar does not stand toe to toe with another 250 point character. Mephiston or Abbadon will take his lunch money every day of the week. If you compare him to a 200 point character hes more in line.
That means your paying 50 points for the ability for your army to auto-pass any morale test -- a decent price IMHO for what that gives, especially in 2,000+ games. This is better than fearless.
* You can ignore pinning
* You can ignore psyker battle squads
* You never take fearless wounds when you lose assault -- even if you lose it by 8. You just pass the test.

If your going to use Calgar, maximize his ability to make your army be a pain in the ass to shift at range. I would go with an all-infantry army full of TACs, Sternguard, Devs, Terminators. They literally have to kill every one of your models to take you off the board. In a KP denial list, this can be a real pain in the ass.

The terminator armor increases his save from 3+ to 2+, that's it. Unless you expect him to be in a ton of CC's vs normal attacks, just run him in normal armor. If you love the terminator armor model, then your paying 15 points for cool factor. It does come with a teleporter homer, at least.

Yes, for all those Terminators you'll be porting in. Anyway, I didn't think of Calgar's rule like that. That makes him that much better.