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I'm a bit stuck on where to go with this list...

Here is what I am thinking so far:

3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
3 Hive Guard
20 Genestealers
20 Genestealers
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Total - 1500

I have exactly 500 points to spare.

Thoughts?

Two Trygon Primes would be a handy addition to your list with a few points to spare.

Looks pretty good, I'd add the two Trygon Primes in, and get scything talons or adrenal glands for your genestealers (maybe take a few of them off to afford it?)

Well there isn't an actual HQ at this point!

I'm assuming that one or both tervigons are HQ....why both the gant units?

I'll third the trygon primes.....seems exactly what would make the list....though you don't necessarily need more synapse with this list, but the extra dakka helps on entry.

If they're both regular trygons and you drop a squad of gants, you've got 150 to play with.....maybe some biovores?

I also might split the genestealers into 3 groups....in my experience, albeit small with 'nids, 20 is more than needed. I've taken out groups of MEQ and termies with 15 and had plenty to spare. I know many take around 8 with TS and are content. Definitely get some TS though.....rerolling wounds and getting more rending is horrendously satisfying.

I was intending to use both Tervigons as troops and add an HQ

In my experience, Biovores ALWAYS earn their points. I know a lot of folks poo poo on them, but a squad of two has never let me down. Also, If you pick up 1 or 2 primes for HQ, they can fit in nicely with some of your Hive Guard.

With that in mind, taking three squads of 2 HG (or 2 of 3) will save you another 150 points which could easily go towards a Trygon/biovores/Prime.

I also second the thought of smaller GS squads. Up to around 1250 points I take 2 min squads with brood lords. Above that I bulk up the squad size to a max of 12-15.

You also need to consider adding something to handle AV 13/14. The HG just aren't up to it, and relying on your tervigons is chancy at best.

i have a very hard time running stealers out of the new codex. they cost as much as a MEQ, they die easily to blotters and no longer have grenades. the outflank is good, and at the right time they can be devastating, but they are easily countered and no longer are they the melee overkill they once where. if you plan on keeping them i would recommend adding on the poison 4+. the extra points would be good in trygons, or tervagons. i have dropped many a drago wing with tervagon spam, but trygons give you a bit more versatility. the choice is up to you. good luck

komosunder wrote:i have a very hard time running stealers out of the new codex. they cost as much as a MEQ, they die easily to blotters and no longer have grenades. the outflank is good, and at the right time they can be devastating, but they are easily countered and no longer are they the melee overkill they once where. if you plan on keeping them i would recommend adding on the poison 4+. the extra points would be good in trygons, or tervagons. i have dropped many a drago wing with tervagon spam, but trygons give you a bit more versatility. the choice is up to you. good luck

The idea of stealers in this style of list is to keep them cheap, slap catalyst on them and hug cover like a mofo. 4+ cover + fnp makes them somewhere between a terminator and MeQ survivability wise and even in the open or melee they will still be 5+ and 4+.

You try to get the opponent to fixate on the genestealers while the HG take apart his vehicles and the gaunts run around capping all the objectives.

Trygons are decent in this list style, but don't prime them, it's almost always a waste of points unless you are dying for synapse.

Drop a termagant squad, make a tervigon an HQ and you have a decent all-comers 1,500 list. In moving up to 2,000 though you need to consider the heavy-mech environment that's likely to be out there. Hive guard are good but can only take out 3 transports a turn and those stealers won't last.

I find 20 strong stealers to be too big a unit to get reliable cover saves and have better luck running more broods of smaller size. You could drop both termagants, run the tervigons both as HQs and then go wild with the stealers. 4-5 broods of 12-15 stealers. 3 broods should then hopefully get into CC more or less intact.

If you want the list same as, then for HQs a tyrant with tyrant guard would be good. Give it TL devourers and maybe old adversary. A prime can also be chucked in there - bonesword, lashwhip touhgness 5 for about 100 points. Alternatively, maybe run some dakka fexes in the HS slots.

With the mass of GK on the scene, rather than trygons I would maybe look at a brood of rending claw raveners to run in behind the tervigons and then spring out with their 12" charge.

Good ideas all around!

I'd like to have a nice variety of cool models if I'm going to be playing a non-competitive army.

I was wondering if it'd be better to field a Prime with some Warriors, some Raveners, and/or a flying Tyrant with some Gargoyles. The Tyrant just looks sooo cool.

I don't know if you need two Trygon Primes, though you definetely need two more monstrous creatures for saturation purposes. The reason you do not need Primes is because you have little which benefits from synapse. The Hive Guard are LD8 and they are going to just shoot something, that's there job so no worries. The Trygons (if you took them) would just tear gak up anyway.

What I would do is add toxin sacs onto the Genestealers and maybe a big flock of Gargoyles with adrenal glands and toxin sacs.

How do people feel about Raveners in the current environment?

I don't quite understand the toxin and adrenal on the mommas if you are only using your gants for objective grabs.

I think you need more weight behind your baby squads to be aggressive with them, so it feels like there is a bit of a waste re: upgrades. It would only take 100 points to beef them both up, but you have to think about how much they are actually contributing, and how much of a concave you'll have left with other bugs already in combat.

What's your usual plan with the big mommas anyway?
I'm not a huge fan of trygons unless you require lots of target saturation. You kind of do. I dunno.

With your opponents, do you think you'll get away with screening your monsters with gargoyles? It's a good way of adding some reach to your force while providing a nice screen for your stuff.

I think what you really need is more high strength attacks. I guess that is a lot to ask of a tyranid list with only 500 points left, but It really seems like what is necessary.

How does this look:

Tyranids
Hive Tyrant - 2 Scything Talons, Wings, Adrenal Glands
Prime - 2 Bone Swords, Deathspitter
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
5 Warriors - Deathspitters
12 Genestealers
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
15 Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
15 Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
Trygon
Total - 1918

Still some points to spare.

Wolf 11x wrote:How do people feel about Raveners in the current environment?

Depends on if your Trevi have Onslaught or not. Onslaught suddenly makes gun wielding raveners scary. A six pack with Devourers and Rending that has onslaught lets you move 6" run d6", shoot 18 S4 shots 18", and then charge 12", and re-rolls 1 in CC. Makes for nasty nasty turn one surprise.

DS them? They just end dead more often than not.

Looks like a real nice list. If you really really want to ruin an IG players day take Hive commander on the Tyrant and out Flank the Trevigon. Or against about any one else out flank the Warriors with Prime.

As you have 82 points left you can be really annoying and spend 50 points on both Hive Commander and Old Adversary drop the the second set of Scything Talon to regain Bone Sword and Lash whips. Now you can Out-Flank a troop and all 'nids broods in 6" get Preferred Enemy including the Tyrant. With Outflanking Warriors and 'stealers plus what ever Gargoyles survive the run down board that is a lot beasties getting rerolls for 25 points.

That leaves 22 points to play with. You could spend it all and give the Tyrant Regen., or spend 10 on Regen for the Prime and 10 for AG (edit: changed Biomorph) on the Trygon. Successfully getting a Regen on anything just frustrates the opponent so much.

I'm currently wondering if I'd have more fun with this list or if I should go with FootCrons instead.

Move a tervigon to hq, add 30 gargoyles with adrenal glands and another squad of 20 genestealers.

Do you play the HQ Tervigon more aggressively?

Personally, I think the nids would be more fun, as I play them as well. I also play Orks, so I'm kind of an "In your face" onslaught sort of player.....no that I can' play conservatively....I just normally atack with more than people can handle.

Going back to this list:

Tyranids
Hive Tyrant - 2 Scything Talons, Wings, Adrenal Glands
Prime - 2 Bone Swords, Deathspitter
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
5 Warriors - Deathspitters
12 Genestealers
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
15 Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
15 Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
Trygon
Total - 1918

I'm wondering if the Tyrant, Warriors, and Genestealers are the best use of points?

I'd like variety and I think I've done a good job of having a good mix of units. However, I'm open to making some adjustments.

Tyrant is almost always a solid choice in the HQ slot. I would just spend the 25 points on old adversary, at least though. That way I can keep the bone sword and lash whip, still get re-rolls for misses for the tyrant and every brood what has a model with in 6".

Genestealers also a solid choice, The warriors are the only iffy thing in the list. The problem with them is being only T4 with a 4+ save makes them so vulnerable to getting ID'ed. The Prime is not bad, but with upgrades loses some punch without the basic warriors to join. Stock build makes a great babysitter for the HG broods freeing up your Trevi's to do their thing.

The only extra variety I can see adding to this list would be to swap a brood of HG for 2 Zoanthrope. That gives you a nice Synapse support for the HG and still able to attack things up to 24".


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Wolf 11x wrote:I'm currently wondering if I'd have more fun with this list or if I should go with FootCrons instead.

Depends on how you like your army. Footcron will probably be easier to play, but I don't think you would have as much "in your face" fun as the 'nid list.


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Inigo Montoya wrote:Move a tervigon to hq, add 30 gargoyles with adrenal glands and another squad of 20 genestealers.

I am going to assume you also stripped all the warriors to make this happen? Not a bad build change for the list. 2 or 3 large gargoyle broods hitting fast an ugly, backed up by probably 3 stealers on mop up duty.


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Wolf 11x wrote:Do you play the HQ Tervigon more aggressively?

Definitely free it up to be more aggressive as it is no longer the toughest objective holder in the list. I would make this build a little more costly, giving it a nice gun, and on-slaught on top of the standard build. That way you can chug down the board 7-12 inches a round and fire as you go.

I think I should start with a list of models I definitely want in the army. That seems to be the best way to go to me:

Flying Tyrant
Tervigon
Hive Guard
Trygon

This gives me at least one of each of the big bad MCs. I think a Devilfex or two would be cool.

I'd rather leave the Warriors at home and I don't think there's a lot of merit to trying to fit as many Termagants as possible.

split up the genestealers and move the tervigons in HQ spend the rest of the points in trygons and biovores.

people seem to dislike biovores, but in reality they are great at stopping long fang and other heavy weapon teams.

Thrawn2600 wrote:split up the genestealers and move the tervigons in HQ spend the rest of the points in trygons and biovores.

people seem to dislike biovores, but in reality they are great at stopping long fang and other heavy weapon teams.

I noticed that also, I like dropping a 3 large pie plate barrage on things. If you scatter far enough you end up with mines on the table. What is not to like. and any squad shooting the mines is one not shooting you . I have also had fun popping DE raiders with them.


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Wolf 11x wrote:I think I should start with a list of models I definitely want in the army. That seems to be the best way to go to me:

Flying Tyrant
Tervigon
Hive Guard
Trygon

This gives me at least one of each of the big bad MCs. I think a Devilfex or two would be cool.

I'd rather leave the Warriors at home and I don't think there's a lot of merit to trying to fit as many Termagants as possible.

Not a bad way to start a list. Any particular play style?

Gaunts really need to be taken in 15 or so size broods unless you are taking it just for the Troop Trevi. Other wise they just die to fast.

I typically play mid-range shooting. My favorite armies have been the old Nidzilla, Dark Eldar, and Grey Knights.


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I'm currently thinking something like this:

Tyranids
Hive Tyrant - Wings
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
2 Hive Guard
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
Tervigon - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, Catalyst
15 Genestealers
15 Genestealers
10 Termagants
10 Termagants
15 Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
15 Gargoyles - Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs
Trygon
Total - 1880

The Tervigons would be Troops. 120 points remaining.

If you really want a mid range shooty 'nid you can take that left over 120 points and turn your two starting Gaunt broods in to 11 bug Devilguant broods. 2 broods 33 of 18" S4 shots that can reduce leadership checks by 1 makes for fun midrange shooting.

Currently, I'm hesitating to purchase anything until after 6th releases.