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So! With the 6th edition soon popping out is there any point in buying the battleforce box for Dark Eldar? I mean, if that codex is gonna be outdated?

Really doubtful. Dark Eldar is still a fairly new codex. Some changes may need to be made, but it will not deep six the armor. That's just silly.

6th ed won't kill the DE. There'll be updates, for every race, though that shouldn't stop you from joining the right side of the webway.

There won't be new sculpts for the existing models, I can see them releasing more HQ's in finecast but the existing battleforce and other mini's are here to stay.

Just hopefully not for another 10 years!

No.

If you killed off transports, GW would deter a vast amount of DE players from buying their products again.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:No.

If you killed off transports, GW would deter a vast amount of DE players from buying their products again.

You have two defensive wargear for all the vehicles, you'll be fine even if transports were weakened.

Oh I thought I was talking about vehicles

I don't understand... Why did we start talking about them killing off transports?

I got confused.

BACK ON TOPIC!

They wouldn't screw over DE, simply because it's a rather new codex. As far as we can tell, it was designed with 6th in mind.

Theres a good chance that the 6th edition rules will "nerf" certain vehicle rules, but only so far as making it less practical for those who field a load transports, each only carrying a couple of guys with heavy weapons.. A tactic that I seriously dislike, as I dont collect all my nice little units just to field them in a bunch of shoeboxes. If I wanted to do that, I'd just collect Imperial Guard, as they do it in a much more interesting way!

But anyway, as far as dark eldar (and eldar too I hope, I collect both) are concerned, I suspect their transports will still be an integral part of their armies, as the rules and fluff all say that it is their speedy vehicles and advanced technology that gives them their edge in combat.

I suspect the changes will be somethiing along the lines of changing the Transport and Fire Points rules, without making Open-Topped and Skimmers too weak or redundant.

I recently purchased myself a second Raider, as I knew that whatever happens I would at least use 2 in most lists. However, I probably wont be buying any more until the 6th edition rules get released, as I would hope that any sort of transport spam will no longer be as "points efficient" (nb. cheesy) as it seems to be at the moment.

Of course all this is just my vague and rambling opinion, I wouldnt necessarily suggest you listen to any of it!

Personally I'm looking forward to 6th edition, as it will mean all the Grey Knight bandwaggoners will start selling off their armies to me on Ebay for half what they bought them for

How is a new Rulebook going to make transports cost anymore points wise.

Unless they make it more dangerous to be in a transport than it is to be on foot, Transport will probably be here to stay. (which makes sense, as, in a world with rocket launcher machine guns, I'd want to be inside a metal box that will stop them from hurting me.

And why should a open topped transport be at a better advantage for shooting than a rhino?

Heck, almost all armies have fluff for being in fast moving vehicles, with the exception of being maybe, guard, but there's always mechanized companies for them.

Unless they make it more dangerous to be in a transport than it is to be on foot, Transport will probably be here to stay. (which makes sense, as, in a world with rocket launcher machine guns, I'd want to be inside a metal box that will stop them from hurting me.

Doesn't make much sense that a railgun that passes through a vehicle isn't going to hurt the occupants inside. Nor will a large explosion from the outside..

And why should a open topped transport be at a better advantage for shooting than a rhino?

Because it's occupants aren't protected at all from said rocket launcher machine guns?

Crazyterran wrote:How is a new Rulebook going to make transports cost anymore points wise.

Unless they make it more dangerous to be in a transport than it is to be on foot, Transport will probably be here to stay. (which makes sense, as, in a world with rocket launcher machine guns, I'd want to be inside a metal box that will stop them from hurting me.

And why should a open topped transport be at a better advantage for shooting than a rhino?

Heck, almost all armies have fluff for being in fast moving vehicles, with the exception of being maybe, guard, but there's always mechanized companies for them.

Well, some of what I said was based on the rumours of 6th ed., and so should in no way be classed as hard facts lol, but its true that points costs probably wont change as they'd have to do a load of retconning of all the codexes (codices?) even the more recent ones.

One of the rumoured 6th ed. rule changes was something like... if a vehicle moves at cruising speed only one person will be able to shoot, even if there is 2 fire points (or something like that). This would be a minor problem for rhino users (they would only lose 1 shot) but for chimeras it would be pretty huge.... and for Dark Eldar open topped transports it would be disasterous. Unless things worked different for "open-topped" compared to "fire-point" tanks.

The above is just an /EXAMPLE/, not a literal suggestion for a rule, I was just pointing out that there are ways to make certain transports less enticing to be spammed (eg. space marine rhinos) while still allowing other transports to be effective. Whether games workshop actually does anything about it is another matter entirely. They certainly WONT be making any of their tanks useless though, as its one of their biggest money makers im sure!

ps.
Not that I have anything against lots of rhinos/razorbacks being used, but quite often it seems they will be fielded mostly empty, with the troops only being thought of as a tax in order to get another cheap vehicle on the board. I dislike this on general principles.. just seems wrong somehow y'know?

Just my thoughts, im no expert!

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Unless they make it more dangerous to be in a transport than it is to be on foot, Transport will probably be here to stay. (which makes sense, as, in a world with rocket launcher machine guns, I'd want to be inside a metal box that will stop them from hurting me.

Doesn't make much sense that a railgun that passes through a vehicle isn't going to hurt the occupants inside. Nor will a large explosion from the outside..

And why should a open topped transport be at a better advantage for shooting than a rhino?

Because it's occupants aren't protected at all from said rocket launcher machine guns?

AV11 Rhino vs S4 bolter. Clearly they aren't safe. >.>

Even a Heavy Bolter ain't gonna do it.

And in the case of a rail gun, it makes about as much sense as a rail gun's shot being deflected off the armor, or 7ft tall warriors in full armor only being able to take one shot from a lasgun or a shotgun before going down. All of these rules are clearly based in reality, and not on what would be fair and balanced.

Everyone has access to transports, it's even.

Niiru wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:How is a new Rulebook going to make transports cost anymore points wise.

Unless they make it more dangerous to be in a transport than it is to be on foot, Transport will probably be here to stay. (which makes sense, as, in a world with rocket launcher machine guns, I'd want to be inside a metal box that will stop them from hurting me.

And why should a open topped transport be at a better advantage for shooting than a rhino?

Heck, almost all armies have fluff for being in fast moving vehicles, with the exception of being maybe, guard, but there's always mechanized companies for them.

Well, some of what I said was based on the rumours of 6th ed., and so should in no way be classed as hard facts lol, but its true that points costs probably wont change as they'd have to do a load of retconning of all the codexes (codices?) even the more recent ones.

One of the rumoured 6th ed. rule changes was something like... if a vehicle moves at cruising speed only one person will be able to shoot, even if there is 2 fire points (or something like that). This would be a minor problem for rhino users (they would only lose 1 shot) but for chimeras it would be pretty huge.... and for Dark Eldar open topped transports it would be disasterous. Unless things worked different for "open-topped" compared to "fire-point" tanks.

The above is just an /EXAMPLE/, not a literal suggestion for a rule, I was just pointing out that there are ways to make certain transports less enticing to be spammed (eg. space marine rhinos) while still allowing other transports to be effective. Whether games workshop actually does anything about it is another matter entirely. They certainly WONT be making any of their tanks useless though, as its one of their biggest money makers im sure!

ps.
Not that I have anything against lots of rhinos/razorbacks being used, but quite often it seems they will be fielded mostly empty, with the troops only being thought of as a tax in order to get another cheap vehicle on the board. I dislike this on general principles.. just seems wrong somehow y'know?

Just my thoughts, im no expert!

I play Vanilla Marines, so only firing one useful weapon at a time from it is par for the course. (Unless theres devastators, but if you move the Rhino you can't shoot Heavy weapons anyways.)

AV11 Rhino vs S4 bolter. Clearly they aren't safe. >.>

Even a Heavy Bolter ain't gonna do it.

Oh, with the way you worded it I thought you said the rhino was better protected than the open topped. My mistake there.

And in the case of a rail gun, it makes about as much sense as a rail gun's shot being deflected off the armor

Talking more about when it penetrates the vehicle. I'd love to see more rules like the Siege Dreadnought heavy flamers (if they pen, auto D6 on the occupants inside) type things.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

AV11 Rhino vs S4 bolter. Clearly they aren't safe. >.>

Even a Heavy Bolter ain't gonna do it.

Oh, with the way you worded it I thought you said the rhino was better protected than the open topped. My mistake there.

And in the case of a rail gun, it makes about as much sense as a rail gun's shot being deflected off the armor

Talking more about when it penetrates the vehicle. I'd love to see more rules like the Siege Dreadnought heavy flamers (if they pen, auto D6 on the occupants inside) type things.

Actually, that'd be kind of cool. If anything, I think the STR damage should be upped on the explosion, to 4, or an auto wound (with saves) on a 3-4+.

Wrecks auto pinning is fine, imo, since wrecks cover things like the engine / power plant being destroyed, pilot being killed, etc. Not necessarily the entire vehicle going down in smoke and flame.

Crazyterran wrote:

I play Vanilla Marines, so only firing one useful weapon at a time from it is par for the course. (Unless theres devastators, but if you move the Rhino you can't shoot Heavy weapons anyways.)

Actually, the (possibly fake) 6th edition stuff that I was referring to, says that people shooting from vehicles count as relentless. Its just that if the vehicle moves, only one person would be able to shoot. But like I said, its hardly official, I was simply throwing out some possibilities for people to consider.

Im sure there are options for space marines to field more than one weapon in a squad though, even if its a character with a decent weapon that can attach to a squad, things like that? In fact cant vanilla marines get techmarines, which are ICs and can have conversion beamers and things like that?

True that space marines might not mind too much if they only get to fire one weapon from a vehicle, as they may only have one in the squad...they have the option to get out and wreak havoc on foot with their mighty space armour to protect them, the way it should be!.... but what about dark eldar trueborn? A venom with 5 trueborn and 4 blasters is currently a nasty little mobile unit of destruction.... but being able to only fire one from a vehicle and needing to be on foot to use them properly would (I suspect) make them next to useless?

Granted im sure theres a hundred other factors im not considering, so if anyone out theres tries to seriously argue against me I'll probably just ignore them lol, as with anything at the moment about 6th edition its all just speculation. Parts of that leaked codex did make me rather interested though, so I'm looking forward to the possibilities regardless!

In fact cant vanilla marines get techmarines, which are ICs and can have conversion beamers and things like that?

Master of the forge only.

but being able to only fire one from a vehicle and needing to be on foot to use them properly would (I suspect) make them next to useless?

Leaked book had open topped having no limit for moving and firing. Covered only has the limit.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Master of the forge only.

Master of the Forge can already ride a bike to move 12" backwards and then fire his conversion beamer.

No self respecting MoF with a Beamer ever moves forward.

If you can move and fire heavy weapons in the next book, i'll spam all the rhinos.

Crazyterran wrote:Master of the Forge can already ride a bike to move 12" backwards and then fire his conversion beamer.

No self respecting MoF with a Beamer ever moves forward.

If you can move and fire heavy weapons in the next book, i'll spam all the rhinos.

but only at someone within 18". and only with one person, unless your vehicle is open topped.
thats if these rules are to be believed, all or none of this may be true.

Which actually doesnt seem all that bad. Does mean chimeras become a little less good maybe, as 5 fire points is a little redundant maybe... but then you could argue they are too good at the moment. Plus I'm sure someone will come up for a new way to use things.

And someone will find a way to exploit the new rules, and we will end up with a whole new way to spam things lol.

Reality-Torrent wrote:So! With the 6th edition soon popping out is there any point in buying the battleforce box for Dark Eldar? I mean, if that codex is gonna be outdated?

Whhhaaaaat?

What makes you think the Dark Eldar would be outdated?

I think other Codex's have a more credible concern than DE, especially since they're going to be 2 editions behind:

1) Black Templars
2)Chaos Marines
3) Sisters
4) Tau
5) Orks
6) Eldar...

But DE could become outdated? Whhaaaaaat?

It was simply a question.