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Landspeeders have me a little confused. They seem lightly armed and fairly fragile, though they are highly maneuverable and very fast. My question is, what role do they fill that bikes can't, and how do you bring that to bear in your armies.

Cyclone shooting ones, or MM tank blowing ones.

Objective contesters.

Also don't forget:
1- Outflanking transports for late game scoring units
2- Scouting multimelta platforms carrying combimelta/meltabomb scouts for alpha strikes

I like the Typhoon speeders myself. The long standoff range can increase their suvivability by staying out of range of most enemies, and they can also hide behind terrain as well. They seem to work best in armies that have lots of missiles already, so are good compliments to missile devastators or Combipredators in the Heavy, Tactical terminators and riflemen dreads in the Elite, and tactical squads with missiles/lascanon and las/plas razorbacks in the Troops.

Not sure bikes can fill that role exactly the same way. I do like 2x Multimelta Attack Bike as an offensive strike unit. When screened from heavy shooting on turn one by another vehicle they can pop out and melt something pretty good. I see them as comparable to MM speeders, a little slower and no able to deep strike, but also a little more resilient.

-Myst

Mysticaria wrote:Also don't forget:
1- Outflanking transports for late game scoring units
2- Scouting multimelta platforms carrying combimelta/meltabomb scouts for alpha strikes

I like the Typhoon speeders myself. The long standoff range can increase their suvivability by staying out of range of most enemies, and they can also hide behind terrain as well. They seem to work best in armies that have lots of missiles already, so are good compliments to missile devastators or Combipredators in the Heavy, Tactical terminators and riflemen dreads in the Elite, and tactical squads with missiles/lascanon and las/plas razorbacks in the Troops.

Not sure bikes can fill that role exactly the same way. I do like 2x Multimelta Attack Bike as an offensive strike unit. When screened from heavy shooting on turn one by another vehicle they can pop out and melt something pretty good. I see them as comparable to MM speeders, a little slower and no able to deep strike, but also a little more resilient.

-Myst

Well, the core of my army is a Sternguard Squad with Pedro Kantor, in a Rhino. I don't really have a heavy support choice, but the tactical role is filled by a Dread I've got decked out with TL-LC, ML, and extra armor. I've also got two Tactical squads for bodies on the field, but I have no idea how I'm going to kit them, as of yet. So how would you suggest I fit Landspeeders in there?

Those Tactical squads need a Rhino each. How you equip them depends on how you want them to operate. If you want to drive to the midfield, then flamer and multi-melta, if you want to combat squad and leave half behind then combi-melta, meltagun and either missile launcher or lascannon. A final configuration I've heard of relies on having devastator squads and then you take a Rhino for the devastator squad, take a tri-melta tactical squad with Rhino, split the tactical squad, put half in one Rhino and half in the other. The devastators sit at the back with their rockets, the multi-melta drives to midfield, and the meltaguns keep driving forward to engage the enemy at short range.

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Those Tactical squads need a Rhino each. How you equip them depends on how you want them to operate. If you want to drive to the midfield, then flamer and multi-melta, if you want to combat squad and leave half behind then combi-melta, meltagun and either missile launcher or lascannon. A final configuration I've heard of relies on having devastator squads and then you take a Rhino for the devastator squad, take a tri-melta tactical squad with Rhino, split the tactical squad, put half in one Rhino and half in the other. The devastators sit at the back with their rockets, the multi-melta drives to midfield, and the meltaguns keep driving forward to engage the enemy at short range.

They NEED Rhino's? I'm at an even 1000 points, so if I can avoid it, I really don't wanna change anything.

How much do the Rhino's cost? My Codex is still in the mail.

I also just thought of having 5 Marines per squad, instead of 10, and giving them razorbacks. Thoughts, comments?

If you're playing 1000 points then I guess sticking to the free weapons is the best option, in which case I'd go missile launcher and flamer. Do put them in Rhinos when you have more points to spend though. Foot slogging isn't the best way to go (although 6th edition may change that).

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:If you're playing 1000 points then I guess sticking to the free weapons is the best option, in which case I'd go missile launcher and flamer. Do put them in Rhinos when you have more points to spend though. Foot slogging isn't the best way to go (although 6th edition may change that).

Well how much do Rhino's cost? Can I get them by dropping the Dreadnought's extra armor? And again, 5-man squads instead of 10, in razorbacks?

We're avoiding the question of the cost of the Rhino as that's against forum rules to provide points costs for a specific model/upgrade.

I really suggest you don't use a TL LC/ML Dread. That's a one shot weapon for both on BS4 and it's a really expensive Dread at 160 points, which is the highest point configuration for a normal Dread! And since it's a shooty Dread, why are you taking Extra Armor? He already can't shoot on a stun, so you're reducing him from a stun result to a shaken result, which doesn't change anything and costs you 15 points Also, if you want a shooty Dread, I suggest you take a Rifleman Dread. This is a Dread with 2 TL ACs, with is 4 TLed S7 shots at 48" range that is a dirt cheap 125 points, and can do a lot more than just target AV12+ like the TL LC/ML Dread.

In regards to 5 man squads: I suggest you don't do it for a few reasons:
1. Space Wolves do this style of play (called MSU) much much better than Vanilla because they can get special weapons in their 5 man squads. Beyond a combi weapon on our Sarges, we cannot.
2. You need a lot of these units to be reliable in terms of objective capturing. 5 man squads are really easy to kill.

AresX8 wrote:We're avoiding the question of the cost of the Rhino as that's against forum rules to provide points costs for a specific model/upgrade.

I really suggest you don't use a TL LC/ML Dread. That's a one shot weapon for both on BS4 and it's a really expensive Dread at 160 points, which is the highest point configuration for a normal Dread! And since it's a shooty Dread, why are you taking Extra Armor? He already can't shoot on a stun, so you're reducing him from a stun result to a shaken result, which doesn't change anything and costs you 15 points Also, if you want a shooty Dread, I suggest you take a Rifleman Dread. This is a Dread with 2 TL ACs, with is 4 TLed S7 shots at 48" range that is a dirt cheap 125 points, and can do a lot more than just target AV12+ like the TL LC/ML Dread.

In regards to 5 man squads: I suggest you don't do it for a few reasons:
1. Space Wolves do this style of play (called MSU) much much better than Vanilla because they can get special weapons in their 5 man squads. Beyond a combi weapon on our Sarges, we cannot.
2. You need a lot of these units to be reliable in terms of objective capturing. 5 man squads are really easy to kill.

Aha. I didn't know that, so I'll keep that in mind. But, what you said about the rifleman dread opens up a lot of options. I'm going to have to find a second TL-LC somewhere, since, as far as I know, the standard dread I ordered only comes with one, but... I'll make it happen.

Suicide MM/HF speeders to burn / melta tanks, or Cyclone speeders to provide 2 more missile launcher shots for your army.

Smaller point games, you should probably take them separately, since that means you can position them better, and they aren't goners on a 4 as well.

The other option for FA for Vanilla Marines is attack bikes, who take the ability to be ID'd and vulnerable to small arms fire in exchange for the ability to not be shaken/stunned.

Land Speeders have a lot more guns than Bikes and can take a punch a little better, but they're more expensive. They share the same tactical role, though.

AnomanderRake wrote:Land Speeders have a lot more guns than Bikes and can take a punch a little better, but they're more expensive. They share the same tactical role, though.

That, I think, is the most concise piece of advice on this I've heard. Thank you, good sir.

As said above, either take a Typhoon Speeder or a MM one.
The Typhoon complements a shooting list and is awesome if you stick it behind a Rhino, so it can shoot while in cover.
The MM is suicidal melta unit that can take out early a valuable any vehicle.

Well, I'd field two Speeders, either two Typhoons ore two Speeders w/ mm, hf. Both implement some duality, the ml can also be shot as a small blast and the mm, hf is dual anyway.

TermiesInARaider wrote:Landspeeders have me a little confused. They seem lightly armed and fairly fragile, though they are highly maneuverable and very fast. My question is, what role do they fill that bikes can't, and how do you bring that to bear in your armies.

I am guessing your speaking of MM/HF speeders or MM/MM speeders.
* Speeders are slightly cheaper per MM shot when using a MM/MM config
* Speeders can fly over terrain.
* Speeders can deep strike
* Speeders are much more resilient to small arms fire.
* Speeders can't be tied up in assaults. It sucks when 19 grots bog down your MM bike.
* Speeders sit up higher on a flying base giving them less chances of having their shots obscured. (though it also means they can be shot more often)
* Speeders are more vulnerable when moving fast (4+ save vs 3+ save)

What role do they fill that bikes can't? HFs killing hordes?
What is their main role? MM tanks, either within 12" for the 2d6 or at 24" for the anti-transport shot. This works best with Vulcan as the HQ giving the speeders TL shots.
Does it work well today? Not as much as it used to. GK and SW blow speeders out of the sky by looking at them.

labmouse42 wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:Landspeeders have me a little confused. They seem lightly armed and fairly fragile, though they are highly maneuverable and very fast. My question is, what role do they fill that bikes can't, and how do you bring that to bear in your armies.

I am guessing your speaking of MM/HF speeders or MM/MM speeders.
* Speeders are slightly cheaper per MM shot when using a MM/MM config
* Speeders can fly over terrain.
* Speeders can deep strike
* Speeders are much more resilient to small arms fire.
* Speeders can't be tied up in assaults. It sucks when 19 grots bog down your MM bike.
* Speeders sit up higher on a flying base giving them less chances of having their shots obscured. (though it also means they can be shot more often)
* Speeders are more vulnerable when moving fast (4+ save vs 3+ save)

What role do they fill that bikes can't? HFs killing hordes?
What is their main role? MM tanks, either within 12" for the 2d6 or at 24" for the anti-transport shot. This works best with Vulcan as the HQ giving the speeders TL shots.
Does it work well today? Not as much as it used to. GK and SW blow speeders out of the sky by looking at them.

Yeah, we seem to be saying that about everything, these days, don't we?

Anyways, thank you all for your help and contributions. Really, y'all are a great crowd.