When to take PF on Tactical Marine or Sternguard?

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**leohart**

I find getting assaulted by BA very :|, would putting a couple of hidden fists in there help?

**Vendetta 476**

Hidden powerfists excel in anti-hq as they have the potential to insta-kill SM heroes easily.

However, you always strike last with them meaning you have to put powerfist users in large squadsin order to protect them.

**TermiesInARaider**

I'd say, if you're running against a dedicated BA assault list, a few powerfists isn't going to turn the tide. That kind of list requires a change in tactics, which is actually where I find Codex Marines to be most useful. You're gonna wanna go shooty on them, in my opinion, but as for how, I'd advise you wait for a second opinion, seeing that my first army is still in the mail.

**Freman Bloodglaive**

Two power fist attacks will make very little difference. You want to combat tactics out of assault and shoot the enemy.

**leohart**

Combat tactic out of assault means I need to Combat Squad them to take advantage of early retreat. Wouldn't this gib me on kill points?

**Pony_law**

You don't need to split the squad to take advantage of being allowed to auto fail a moral check. The problem is they will often stay within 6 inches of you if you get away, you can still shoot as you fall back but if you are near the board edge will probable go over.

**AresX8**

Sarges don't have enough base attacks to really push the tide with their fist due to WS4. If you give each Tac Squad you have a PF, those points will QUICKLY ramp up. For my 2k list, I used to have all 3 of my Tac Squads have PFs, then I tweaked my list a little bit and got a 3rd Dakka Pred in there by dropping said fists and downgrading a TL HB Razorback back to a Rhino (I had 1995 points before tweaking).

**leohart**

What do you shoot those HB Pred at? They can't hurt vehicles and BA marines FNP means all that shooting is nothing.

**AresX8**

Something to learn with shooty armies is that you focus fire. Make the enemy roll dice, they can't save 'em all. When you point 3 Dakka Preds at an infantry unit, that's 18 HB shots and 6 autocannon shots going into them. You're gonna do SOMETHING.

**Happygrunt**

All I can suggest is to focus fire on the transports. As a BA player, I hate it when my marines have to walk across the board. Focus down the transports first, slow down that BA player, then pick him off with concentrated fire.

**leohart**

I usually take 2 Auto/HB Preds + 1 TFC. I think they dish out the same amount of wounds on T4 models but the TFC buff the cover save of my TLAC Dreadnoughts.

Do you think I should go 3 Auto/HB Preds?

**AresX8**

If you have the 3rd Dakka Pred model, try it out. If not, proxy it with any Rhino chassis vehicle. A TFC is fine (for 100 points it's a steal for the damage it can do) if you have the list designed with other threats that would be targeted before the TFC.

**leohart**

So I guess the final point is to not take PF on Tac Sargs and instead relying on shooting and falling back. Then beef out the other slots of more dakka?

**AresX8**

Yes. You also want to charge HIM when you get the opportunity. This allows you to deny him the Priest's FC and give you the oh so important extra attack. BAs die like all Marines by throwing dice at them, they just have one more roll to make more than other Marines.

Also, I'm curious to see your current list and what point size you're playing at.

**leohart**

My current list is (I play these because they are all painted @ 2000 pts):

Librarian - Terminator - SS, Avenger, Gate.
Motf - Conversion Beamer (Sit with scout or TFC)

Dreadnought Plasma Cannon - DCCW
Ironclad Dreadnoght - 2HK Missles, Seismic Hammer, HF (my backfield guard unit)
5TH/SS Terminators

5 Combat Scout - PF + Combi-melta - LSS + Multimelta
5 Sniper scouts - Camo cloak (sit with Motf or Infiltrate objective)
Tac Squad - ML + PG + combi-plasma - Rhino
Tac Squad - ML + MG + combi-melta - Rhino

2x ABMM
2x ABMM

TLAC TLAC Dreadnought
TLAC TLAC Dreadnought
TFC

**spartiatis**

The only time i find taking a PF may be worth it (if you play vanilla marines with no special characters) is in a Sternguard squad that is a bit larger (at least 7-8 marines).
Any other time, just combat-tactic your way out of assault.

**labmouse42**

My general rule is it depends on the TAC/Sternguard squad.

If your going to use them aggressively taking mid/far objectives, give them a PF as they are more likely to use it.
If your going to use the squad defensibly to objective camp and shoot at range, then leave the PF off, as their less likely to need it.

**jesse**

I used to take PFs on my tac squads, but it just wasn't worth it. I found myself "winning" more assaults by using combat tactics than I ever won with PFs. Dropping two PFs will give you the points for a multi-melta attack bike (which is what I did) and the bike has been much more effective.

**gpfunk**

Oh man, you should consider taking null zone on your libby. Just a random point.

**Jihallah**

Is your tac squad going to punch vehicles?

If you are seriously considering a tac squad with melta+combimelta sarge, a fist can often help when you fail to destroy a vehicle on the chart- especially if you immobilize your victim with the meltaguns first

Asides from that- they are pretty mediocre in tac squads.

**juraigamer**

If you're looking for a way to deal with being assaulted by blood angels, dreadnoughts is the solution. Ironclads or venerables.

Why try to weather the storm of blows when you can ignore them?

Take some dreads and provided your opponent does melee movement right, you should easily be able to single out his sanguinary priests and finish off that silly FNP that makes his guys hell for you.

**RubberJonny**

I wouldn't go with a Power Fist but a Power Weapon won't hurt. You'll get three attacks that ignore armour and they are not very expensive.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

**imweasel**

Power weapons and Power fists on tac squads are a waste of points.