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I'm just curious, but who or what ruled the ancient Eldar Empire? Did they have an emperor like the Imperium? Or was it an empire only in name, that is a large territory ruled by the Eldar but without an Imperial Throne? The Dark Eldar Codex mentions 'Eldar Councils' whose influence were unfelt in Commoragh even before the Fall; if so, does this mean that the Eldar Empire was not a homogenous state (although the Imperium isn't one, the Council of Terra/High Lords of Terra are still in charge overall barring the Emperor and a few 'circumstances')?

Their gods?
Their heroes?
Councils filled with the worst sort of politicians, space elf politicians.Maybe?

I'd guess it changes over time. Eldar are there for eons if the story of the old ones is to believe.

1hadhq wrote:Their gods?
Their heroes?
Councils filled with the worst sort of politicians, space elf politicians.Maybe?

I'd guess it changes over time. Eldar are there for eons if the story of the old ones is to believe.

Considering that even during the Great Crusade they were calling the Emperor '...your Emperor...', instead of taking usual view that they refuse to acknowledge him, I was wondering if at some point they had an Emperor. We know that the semi-mythical Eldanesh and his brother Ulthanash were the twin kings of the Eldar during the War in Heaven, and considering that Eldanesh was slain either by Khaine or the Nightbringer, perhaps Ulthanash was this Eldar emperor?

Hehehe, isn't it just that the Emperor really is the guy with no name?

It seems like the Eldar-pantheon of gods ruled them directly. Hm, I guess I can ask around in http://www.thedarkcity.net/ as there lies probably the most competence in Dark Eldar-stuff and they are like the jerkass-brother of the Eldars.

There is simply put no clear concrete information given. There appears to have been a nobility, as it is mentioned in the Dark Eldar Codex how these were the most able to gratify their desires, and there is mention of "Eldar councils" of which Commorragh stood apart and independent from. However that is about it. There is no head of state mentioned.

Ulthanash was the mythological brother of Eldanesh, and all of their supposed adventures and heroics took place during the War in Heaven or before. Eldar are mortal. They do not live for millions of years. Hence it could not have been Ulthanash.

The ability of Commorragh to stand apart and be basically its own state where anything was permitted, suggests there wasn't a head of state over the overall Eldar empire. Could it have been an empire ruled by a balance of power by various councils? Maybe. But this is all speculative because basically nothing is said on the topic.

Beaviz81 wrote:Hehehe, isn't it just that the Emperor really is the guy with no name?

It seems like the Eldar-pantheon of gods ruled them directly. Hm, I guess I can ask around in http://www.thedarkcity.net/ as there lies probably the most competence in Dark Eldar-stuff and they are like the jerkass-brother of the Eldars.

That would be the Human Emperor. Apparently, He considered His own name as unimportant.

Based on books ive read the Craftworlds are controlled by the Seer Council.

Smitty0305 wrote:Based on books ive read the Craftworlds are controlled by the Seer Council.

Yes, they are, but I meant the ancient Eldar Empire. The story of the Fall calls the seers reclusive, implying they didn't really play that big a role in the Eldar Empire as they do in the Craftworlds of the 41st Millennium.

And not all Craftworlds are ruled by a Seer Council. If I remember correctly, Saim-Hann is divided between noble clans reminiscent of the Eldar Empire (so the Empire really wasn't an 'empire', but an aristocracy of sorts) and in Biel-Tan the Seer Council is just an advisory board to the Court of the Young King.

Tadashi wrote:so the Empire really wasn't an 'empire', but an aristocracy of sorts

It fits well with them being horribly arrogant and what not, to the point where the aristocratic families, houses, w/e are suppose to be WAAAAY better than the rest. Hell I can see them having played a large part in the fall, starting or participating the most in the events that brought on the birth of Slaanesh. It would be on spot with the character of their race.

Yori wrote:

Tadashi wrote:so the Empire really wasn't an 'empire', but an aristocracy of sorts

It fits well with them being horribly arrogant and what not, to the point where the aristocratic families, houses, w/e are suppose to be WAAAAY better than the rest. Hell I can see them having played a large part in the fall, starting or participating the most in the events that brought on the birth of Slaanesh. It would be on spot with the character of their race.

Actually they did. Initially, the pride of the Eldar prevented the corruption from spreading at first, with the reasoning of "we're better than that", but sooner or later majority of the society fell into the trap. The noble houses initially tried to suppress the growing decadence of their members, who went to Commoragh, which was autonomous from the rest of the Empire. Other noble families who were completely decadent found refuge there. Ultimately, the entire society was corrupted, with those heeding the increasingly dire warnings of the seers fleeing to the far edges of the galaxy to become Exodites, or leaving with the seers on the strictly controlled Craftworlds.

From the Dark Eldar Codex:

Amongst the pleasure-seekers and the interminably curious were those whose pursuit of excess became ever more extreme. These included a great proportion of the aristocracy of ancient Eldar society; those with the wealth and the time to truly explore the fruits of decadence.
p. 6, Dark Eldar Codex

Those with the most resources, i.e. the nobles, were the most able to indulge in excess. They are also the ones that constructed sub-realms in the Webway, as they were the ones that could command such resources.

Iracundus wrote:From the Dark Eldar Codex:

Amongst the pleasure-seekers and the interminably curious were those whose pursuit of excess became ever more extreme. These included a great proportion of the aristocracy of ancient Eldar society; those with the wealth and the time to truly explore the fruits of decadence.
p. 6, Dark Eldar Codex

Those with the most resources, i.e. the nobles, were the most able to indulge in excess. They are also the ones that constructed sub-realms in the Webway, as they were the ones that could command such resources.

In other words, they started the practice of launching raids from the Webway for slaves, plunder, and sport...despicable ...

Tadashi wrote:

Iracundus wrote:From the Dark Eldar Codex:

Amongst the pleasure-seekers and the interminably curious were those whose pursuit of excess became ever more extreme. These included a great proportion of the aristocracy of ancient Eldar society; those with the wealth and the time to truly explore the fruits of decadence.
p. 6, Dark Eldar Codex

Those with the most resources, i.e. the nobles, were the most able to indulge in excess. They are also the ones that constructed sub-realms in the Webway, as they were the ones that could command such resources.

In other words, they started the practice of launching raids from the Webway for slaves, plunder, and sport...despicable ...

Well at that time humanity was at the height of its technological power, so just imagine a bunch of eldar high on some weird drug going after the "stupid mon'keigh" only to be vaporized by something that looks like a pee-shooter.
But weren't there alien slavers on the moons of Jupiter or something when the Great Crusade reached that part of space in its infancy, at least that's what 40k wiki had on it when I was looking for info since I only ever read a couple of the HH books. Is it possible that those were eldar that survived after the fall being far away from the eye and continued with their crap?

Yori wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Iracundus wrote:From the Dark Eldar Codex:

Amongst the pleasure-seekers and the interminably curious were those whose pursuit of excess became ever more extreme. These included a great proportion of the aristocracy of ancient Eldar society; those with the wealth and the time to truly explore the fruits of decadence.
p. 6, Dark Eldar Codex

Those with the most resources, i.e. the nobles, were the most able to indulge in excess. They are also the ones that constructed sub-realms in the Webway, as they were the ones that could command such resources.

In other words, they started the practice of launching raids from the Webway for slaves, plunder, and sport...despicable ...

Well at that time humanity was at the height of its technological power, so just imagine a bunch of eldar high on some weird drug going after the "stupid mon'keigh" only to be vaporized by something that looks like a pee-shooter.
But weren't there alien slavers on the moons of Jupiter or something when the Great Crusade reached that part of space in its infancy, at least that's what 40k wiki had on it when I was looking for info since I only ever read a couple of the HH books. Is it possible that those were eldar that survived after the fall being far away from the eye and continued with their crap?

If the Men of Iron hadn't revolted yet, then the Eldar wouldn't have stood a chance. The only things that kept Mankind from surpassing the Eldar at the time were the Eldar's psychic abilities, and the fact that without the Astronomican, Mankind was dependent on short-range warp jumps, similar to the Tau Empire.

Yes, I've also heard of alien occupiers out in the outer sol system, but even if they were wiped out, the DE wouldn't have retaliated; they're not stupid enough to provoke the Emperor even at that point and risk a premature confrontation with the Legio Astartes.

Yori wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Iracundus wrote:From the Dark Eldar Codex:

Amongst the pleasure-seekers and the interminably curious were those whose pursuit of excess became ever more extreme. These included a great proportion of the aristocracy of ancient Eldar society; those with the wealth and the time to truly explore the fruits of decadence.
p. 6, Dark Eldar Codex

Those with the most resources, i.e. the nobles, were the most able to indulge in excess. They are also the ones that constructed sub-realms in the Webway, as they were the ones that could command such resources.

In other words, they started the practice of launching raids from the Webway for slaves, plunder, and sport...despicable ...

Well at that time humanity was at the height of its technological power, so just imagine a bunch of eldar high on some weird drug going after the "stupid mon'keigh" only to be vaporized by something that looks like a pee-shooter.

Humanity was not at the height of its technological power. The timeline in the Dark Eldar Codex shows the real decadent prelude period to the Fall happened during M25-M30. From the 40K timeline in the Big Red Book rulebook, that is the Age of Strife, when humanity was already fallen from the Dark Age of Technology, and was spent and divided by internal fighting.

My mistake, I thought the Dark Age of Technology ended in the 29M, turns out that's when The Fall happened, ooops.

Iracundus wrote:

Yori wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Iracundus wrote:From the Dark Eldar Codex:

Amongst the pleasure-seekers and the interminably curious were those whose pursuit of excess became ever more extreme. These included a great proportion of the aristocracy of ancient Eldar society; those with the wealth and the time to truly explore the fruits of decadence.
p. 6, Dark Eldar Codex

Those with the most resources, i.e. the nobles, were the most able to indulge in excess. They are also the ones that constructed sub-realms in the Webway, as they were the ones that could command such resources.

In other words, they started the practice of launching raids from the Webway for slaves, plunder, and sport...despicable ...

Well at that time humanity was at the height of its technological power, so just imagine a bunch of eldar high on some weird drug going after the "stupid mon'keigh" only to be vaporized by something that looks like a pee-shooter.

Humanity was not at the height of its technological power. The timeline in the Dark Eldar Codex shows the real decadent prelude period to the Fall happened during M25-M30. From the 40K timeline in the Big Red Book rulebook, that is the Age of Strife, when humanity was already fallen from the Dark Age of Technology, and was spent and divided by internal fighting.

In which case, DE didn't have to worry facing the dreaded/famed Men of Iron. Although the Humans of the first millennium of the Old Night hadn't fully regressed yet; mention has been made of apocalyptic wars at that time that left most of Earth's oceans vaporized. The Humans at the time would have laid waste any slavers and damned the damage. It wasn't until the industrial damage and population depletion of that first millennim reached critical that Mankind's technological level collapsed to pre-industrial levels.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yori wrote:My mistake, I thought the Dark Age of Technology ended in the 29M, turns out that's when The Fall happened, ooops.

Actually, what happened immediately after that was the Unification War and the rise of the Imperium, followed shortly by the Great Crusade.

I always assumed that since Commorragh had "old noble houses", the Eldar Empire did as well. My guess it was ruled by a confederation of noble houses which constantly plotted against one another.

I imagine it's a lot like the current rule in Commorragh. Even if it had a powerful supreme leader, he obviously died in the fall.

Beaviz81 wrote:Hehehe, isn't it just that the Emperor really is the guy with no name? .

Perhaps he was a man named sue?

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:Hehehe, isn't it just that the Emperor really is the guy with no name? .

Perhaps he was a man named sue?

It's a boy named Sue (favorite Johnny Cash-song), and that can explain a thing or two about the Horus Heresy. I would also have hated my daddy if I was named Horus or Sue.

The Eldar "Empire" probably didn't have a single leader figure.

I think they would have had a council of elders who would have been the most powerful psykers amoung their race, if they had anything at all. Its possable each planet was independent or there were small alliances of planets. Just kinda going about their business.

Well - originally it may have been direct command from their Gods.

But at least 1 well known Eldar Myth cycle shows the "end" of that direct relationship due to - surprise surprise - Khaine.

Tadashi wrote:I'm just curious, but who or what ruled the ancient Eldar Empire? Did they have an emperor like the Imperium? Or was it an empire only in name, that is a large territory ruled by the Eldar but without an Imperial Throne? The Dark Eldar Codex mentions 'Eldar Councils' whose influence were unfelt in Commoragh even before the Fall; if so, does this mean that the Eldar Empire was not a homogenous state (although the Imperium isn't one, the Council of Terra/High Lords of Terra are still in charge overall barring the Emperor and a few 'circumstances')?

That's a really good question, I'd never thought of it before.

Beaviz81 wrote:

thakabalpuphorsefishguy wrote:

Beaviz81 wrote:Hehehe, isn't it just that the Emperor really is the guy with no name? .

Perhaps he was a man named sue?

It's a boy named Sue (favorite Johnny Cash-song), and that can explain a thing or two about the Horus Heresy. I would also have hated my daddy if I was named Horus or Sue.

A boy who grows up to be a man named Sue... unless I am severely confused on the biological progression of the human male...

The Eldar seem to be the sort of people who would have a feudal court overflowing with complicated plots and intrigues.

They probably had some sort of ruling council like the High Lords. Though their webway is fast enough for them to have a full blown Senate like Star Wars.

Empire, means multicultural entity guess why mankind went with Imperium

Probably did have a council of sorts similar to any advisory board to any senate/congress which would be the equivalent to the council of terra seeing as how The Emperor was the supreme authority in the imperium and thus really the high lords of terra were picked from the already ruling elite.

-Lil-E ^- , -^ (totally would pick the name Lil-E)

-PS guy (BigE) could probably only dream of the total control any supposed leader of the Eldar Empire could have leveled on any civilization that ever even have posed the slightest inkling of a threat even after the Fall since a single enitity such as the high lords of terra are just convulated c^*cksores who sit around smoking crack and thinking up weird laws to screw everyone in the Imperium over and tbh sounds like even a DOW would be hard to even find the legislaton, sounds like a system bound to fail myself, wouldn't even be a threat since the doctrine of the eldar states no direct confrontation unless pushed towards it and then BigE is a damn xylophone anyway.

-PSS- I also read a quote on the net that sad that a "leader" of the elder ordered the creation of Commaraugh the interdimensional labyrinth that makes up the city and its sub sectors a mere whim talk about boring space elf politics

"Thought exploding was only an Imperial Guardsmen thing lmfao"

I suppose the pending birth of Ynnead makes the necromancy of this thread quite apropos...

Welcome to Dakka anyway must admit I'm having a little difficulty following your train of thought in this one...

If it's regarding the relative superiority of the DAoT mankind and the Eldar Empire it's categorically stated that the Eldar Empire had no equals.

Five years. Five years.
How did you even find this thread?

Smells like the Emporer''s rotting corpse in here.

Well on topic I'd say the pre-fall elder were ruled by their immediate desires.