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Hey guys, just ordered a two boxes of panthers from PSC and thought I would make this list for 1750pts. Tell me what you think?

2 Panther-290
3 Panther-430
3 Panther-430
4 Mobelwagons-270
Volksgrenadier platoon-210
HS 129B (Sporadic)-115
2 10.5cm Guns-100

Or should I drop the guns and air support and replace them with a SS-Grenadier Platoon-200?

Cheers

Well, You could add a couple of Tigers and stop worrying about how to spend the remaining points (cause You won't have any). But seriously, which book are You using? Is the Panzergrenadier Heer version available for You (they are not fearless, but they are cheaper) . If You have Grey Wolf available take a look at the Bake Kampfgruppe options.

I'm not using a book, I'm using the briefing that was given in the May edition of Wargames Illustrated.

The options I have are three panther platoons, two must be used, anti-aircraft, Naval Support, Air support, Infantry (PzrG) and another infantry slot (SS-G, VG, Aufklarungs, PzrP), and SS-Artillery (10.5cm, 2 or 4 of them)

Well, don't even bother with Sporadic Air Support - it is even worse than Limited, which is unsurprisingly quite "limited" Germans in LW should invest in anti-aircraft since all lists are geared to be historically accurate and during the Late War skies were dominated by Allied air forces. If You are dead set on Panthers (and with two PSC boxes You probably should - just be careful with their assembly as instruction sheet is allegedly wrong!) which will sink most of the points, You should think about some infantry to hold objectives, then Anti-air and then some cheap recon (dunno which options You have available in that list).

Yes I would definitely go with either limited air support, or not bother with it at all! (although, air support does seem to be generally more effective in the new edition).

Poppabear wrote:I'm not using a book, I'm using the briefing that was given in the May edition of Wargames Illustrated.

The options I have are three panther platoons, two must be used, anti-aircraft, Naval Support, Air support, Infantry (PzrG) and another infantry slot (SS-G, VG, Aufklarungs, PzrP), and SS-Artillery (10.5cm, 2 or 4 of them)

I would suggest using the Panzerkompanie (Heer) list from the V3 forces book, as the briefing you are using sounds extremely limiting.

You can make the base of your army Panthers, and you can get the lists from the forces book for free at easyarmy.com

Well, V3 is also not very rich in options to say the least, but in comparison to this Wargames Illustrated list is has plenty of options

If you don't have the V3 book you can get the list for free on easyarmy.com. The V3 list is also quite restrictive however.

I'm not sure how I would stop that list, it's alot of panthers and also quite a few supporting platoons. Lists like that are normally 3 platoons of Panthers plus A.nother platoon not another 3 platoons...

Are these reluctant trained or something?

What does the Aufklarungs entry consist of? If you're taking Panthers you need recon. You need to be able to manoeuvre with confidence with Panthers, if your opponent has ambush and you don't have recon that isn't going to happen.

You may also want to check out the Kampfgruppe Bake list in Grey Wolf which is also Panther (and Tiger) heavy.

mwnciboo wrote:I'm not sure how I would stop that list, it's alot of panthers and also quite a few supporting platoons. Lists like that are normally 3 platoons of Panthers plus A.nother platoon not another 3 platoons...

Are these reluctant trained or something?

I just noticed that too, in his list 3 Panthers are 430, while 3 Panthers in the forces book's Heer (confident vet.) Panzerkompanie are 560 points. In his list he gets 8 Panthers for 1150 while the forces book it is 1495 for them.

they must be reluctant trained or at least trained to knock off 345 points.

I think that they are confident trained. To be honest Panthers are only much use against tank companies or INNO lists, a real infantry army would be all over this list.

CT Panthers. Looking to pick up the WI myself this weekend.

The naval arty is the Prinz Eugen. Not sure on its specifics, but comes in around 200 pts with a 2 or 3+ firepower. I think there is a weakness in that the HQ teams can't spot, or I could be mistaken.

And i don't think it has recce option. This was a retreating army. I believe their biggest concern was "Am I dead?" followed by "Am I surrounded?" If you can answer no to both of those it was a compatatively good day.

Palindrome wrote:I think that they are confident trained. To be honest Panthers are only much use against tank companies or INNO lists, a real infantry army would be all over this list.

8 Panthers is definitely overkill, it would be better to get some Pz IV or infantry and reduce the number of Panthers, as you probably would have enough with 4.

As far as i know, it is Panthers only.

Of, and my buddy, who is texting me as he has the magazine issue, says the VG infantry is CT and 5 stands of assualtgun panzerfaust with 2 stands of MG panzerfaust.


And the naval arty is At6 FP1+

So I take it that I shouldn't use the briefing from the issue?

I just thought it would be a near idea. I would take fewer Panthers to be honest but the minimal is 8 (2 HQ, two groups of 3).

The briefing is fine, it just has some limitations. From the limited support optins available (and without knowing much about the lists) I would probably go with the naval bombardment and 2 infantry platoons, possibly with the cheapest armoured AAA option.

General Seric wrote:

Palindrome wrote:I think that they are confident trained. To be honest Panthers are only much use against tank companies or INNO lists, a real infantry army would be all over this list.

8 Panthers is definitely overkill, it would be better to get some Pz IV or infantry and reduce the number of Panthers, as you probably would have enough with 4.

Not when they are trained. Pz IV as trained dies really quickly anyway. Given how cheap the CT or RT Panthers are, you might as well have a bunch.
Kinda of the whole point of these CT and RT Panzerbrigade lists anyway, they werent suppose to be balanced lists, you ll have a terrible time digging stuff out with no recon, but you will have a good time shooting up a Soviet Tankovy with all these Panthers.

The mech list from the briefing is a lot better though, compare to the RT ones in BG&G, it doesnt always attack, you are loaded with MG and panzerfausts and you get cheap Panthers plus some template support.

Trained panthers aren't much of a libability given that they are snipers which work best in cover at long range. What I meant was that lists which go big cat heavy always have a tough time against infantry and this list will have an even tougher time given its relatively poor support options.