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For example, in the fluff for Sgt. Telion in the Vanilla Codex, it's stated he's lent out to other chapters quite often, especially those of Ultramarine decent.

So, if he went into battle with them, would he wear the colors of the Ultramarines, or would he be using wargear provided by the other chapter for the duration of his stay? It's never really stated, and it's just something idle that crossed my mind, and I wondered if anyone had the answer too.

Thanks!

Consdering how much pride Astartes have in their 'home' Chapter, I'd assume they would always wear their own armour & use their own equipment unless circumstances demanded otherwise.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:Consdering how much pride Astartes have in their 'home' Chapter, I'd assume they would always wear their own armour & use their own equipment unless circumstances demanded otherwise.

+1 for this. I'm sure many Marines wearing another chapter's colors, would be near sacrilegious, and likewise in the other direction. I doubt any Marine would let a non-member wear his chapter colors unless it conveyed a serious, legitimate battlefield benefit.

I think the only time that Marines wear different colours is if they join the Deathwatch, and even then they keep their chapter colours on one shoulder pad. It's like heraldry, wearing a different chapter's colours would be like pretending to be someone else.

The only instance I can think of this happening is when the Tiger Claws were reintegrated into the Astral Claws. I believe in such a case, the marines would repaint their armour.

Consdering how much pride Astartes have in their 'home' Chapter, I'd assume they would always wear their own armour & use their own equipment unless circumstances demanded otherwise.

I tend to think this would work like the Deathwatch, where they wear the armor of the chapter they are with but they keep the shoulder-pad of the chapter they are in.

Actually everyone changes their colour to the new guy...
So if Telion joined the BA for a bit they'd all change to blue.

There was one time when the CF and BT joined forces to fight i think it was orks? The CF painted the templar icon on their legs and the BT painted their left hands crimson red.

Diabolical13 wrote:There was one time when the CF and BT joined forces to fight i think it was orks? The CF painted the templar icon on their legs and the BT painted their left hands crimson red.

Curious. You mind sharing where you read that?

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Diabolical13 wrote:There was one time when the CF and BT joined forces to fight i think it was orks? The CF painted the templar icon on their legs and the BT painted their left hands crimson red.

Curious. You mind sharing where you read that?

I know it was in a WD at some point...
The Templars and Fists kept their modifications in honour of the 'event'...

purplefood wrote:

TermiesInARaider wrote:

Diabolical13 wrote:There was one time when the CF and BT joined forces to fight i think it was orks? The CF painted the templar icon on their legs and the BT painted their left hands crimson red.

Curious. You mind sharing where you read that?

I know it was in a WD at some point...
The Templars and Fists kept their modifications in honour of the 'event'...

It used to be on the Web as well, in the "Painting Black Templars Iconography" article. It seems it's been removed now though.

Diabolical13 wrote:There was one time when the CF and BT joined forces to fight i think it was orks? The CF painted the templar icon on their legs and the BT painted their left hands crimson red.

I wonder if this is the Black Templar/Crimson Fist team up that was referenced in Helsreach?

It's an interesting idea though, that you could take out to other Chapters. It would give individual squads within your army a unique flair if you gave them some form of decoration normally associated with a different Chapter, in recognition of past cooperation.

Diabolical13 wrote:
There was one time when the CF and BT joined forces to fight i think it was orks? The CF painted the templar icon on their legs and the BT painted their left hands crimson red.

This is true it was during the Declates Crusade in which the BT and the CF fought the Orks. The Orks were nearly overrunning the CF and due to the importance of the Declates forgeworld the BT who were in the area were called in to assist. This is also where the red and black templar comes from. Some black templars added red lines to their Templar cross to signify the unity of the two chapters and the bond they had formed in the face of a relentless enemy.

I thought the Templars painted one hand red (Or crimson i guess) and the Fists painted a kneepad white...
That's how i remember it...

The templars painted a hand red and the crimson fists painted a templar cross on their right knee. The red and black templar cross was another way in which the BT represented the unity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I wonder if this is the Black Templar/Crimson Fist team up that was referenced in Helsreach?

Helsreach was the Salamanders and the BTs. The Crimson Fists were not present at the third war for Armageddon.

I'm not so sure about the cross but frankly i could care more about it.

Here you are my friend a reference to the cross on the knee. Referenced from GW. I believe the story is also in the BT codex for those of you who have it.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Declates_Crusade#.T6FZwevY-Sq

Fair enough.

The CF paintted there right knee pad white with the templar cross on it. The BT painted there left hand crimson.

There was also a banner created with both iconagraphy.



The deathwatch also keep one of there shouldpad the original color of there chapter, painting it fully black is considered dis-respectfull.
And lets not forget when Uriel Ventris "borrowed" for lack of better term, and armor set from the sons of guilliman. He painted the whole army with an ultramarine scheme but kept the helmet the original color to respect both the chapter and armor.

So I would think that with tellion it would be something similar, that in some way or form he wears some form of iconagraphy of the chapter he is training, and in return, his return wear something to honor him.

jareddm wrote:The only instance I can think of this happening is when the Tiger Claws were reintegrated into the Astral Claws. I believe in such a case, the marines would repaint their armour.

That was more due to the fact that the Astral Claws were 'illegally' harboring the remains of the Tiger Claws and using their own geneseed to replenish the Tiger Claws ranks (Tiger Claws being a decendant chapter of the Astral Claws).

It's not just a matter of respect, Astartes armor has a machine spirit. The reason the Deathwatch leave one pauldron in their chapter's colors is so they don't anger the armor's spirit. So while adding another chapter's icon as a mark of honor is perfectly acceptable, the armor would rebel at being completely repainted in another chapter's colors.

I don't think the machine-spirit would rebel - after all when successor Chapters are equipped from their parent Chapters old stock, the machine-spirit doesn't rebel, so far as we know, against being painted new colours & having new insignia added. Especially with how different some Chapters are from their parent Chapters.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I don't think the machine-spirit would rebel - after all when successor Chapters are equipped from their parent Chapters old stock, the machine-spirit doesn't rebel, so far as we know, against being painted new colours & having new insignia added. Especially with how different some Chapters are from their parent Chapters.

That's because there is no such thing as a 'parent chapter'.
Chapters are not created from an existing chapter.
A chapter may assign a cadre of veterans to traina new chapter but they don't always stay. When they do i'd imagine they have new armour rather than keep their old armour.

purplefood wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I don't think the machine-spirit would rebel - after all when successor Chapters are equipped from their parent Chapters old stock, the machine-spirit doesn't rebel, so far as we know, against being painted new colours & having new insignia added. Especially with how different some Chapters are from their parent Chapters.

That's because there is no such thing as a 'parent chapter'.
Chapters are not created from an existing chapter.
A chapter may assign a cadre of veterans to traina new chapter but they don't always stay. When they do i'd imagine they have new armour rather than keep their old armour.

Well apart from second founding chapters.

BluntmanDC wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Sparks_Havelock wrote:I don't think the machine-spirit would rebel - after all when successor Chapters are equipped from their parent Chapters old stock, the machine-spirit doesn't rebel, so far as we know, against being painted new colours & having new insignia added. Especially with how different some Chapters are from their parent Chapters.

That's because there is no such thing as a 'parent chapter'.
Chapters are not created from an existing chapter.
A chapter may assign a cadre of veterans to traina new chapter but they don't always stay. When they do i'd imagine they have new armour rather than keep their old armour.

Well apart from second founding chapters.

Yeah but that's hardly the norm.

If a marine is on loan to another chapter, he still keeps his own armor.

If a marine is on loan to Deathwatch, that's covered in Deathwatch.

If a marine JOINS another chapter permanently, he'd wear the new chapter colors. This would be exceedingly rare.

purplefood wrote:That's because there is no such thing as a 'parent chapter'.
Chapters are not created from an existing chapter.
A chapter may assign a cadre of veterans to traina new chapter but they don't always stay. When they do i'd imagine they have new armour rather than keep their old armour.

Gene-seed, equipment & foundation comes from somewhere, which is what I am refering to as a 'parent' Chapter. All that stuff doesn't magically appear from nowhere.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:

purplefood wrote:That's because there is no such thing as a 'parent chapter'.
Chapters are not created from an existing chapter.
A chapter may assign a cadre of veterans to traina new chapter but they don't always stay. When they do i'd imagine they have new armour rather than keep their old armour.

Gene-seed, equipment & foundation comes from somewhere, which is what I am refering to as a 'parent' Chapter. All that stuff doesn't magically appear from nowhere.

You're right it does.
The Adeptus Mechanicus.

Not always. There was a Dark Angel successor Chapter which was kitted out by the Dark Angels, inheriting their older marks of power armour (III & IV from memory) that had been replaced by MkVII's - can't remember which one it was. Successor Chapters that have close ties with the Chapter their gene-seed comes from may recieve equipment from them to cement their ties.

It's like our weapons & kit - what happens to weapons & equipment that is replaced with newer stuff? Does it all just vanish mysteriously? Or does it end up circulating around, being used by many different people? The AK47 is a brilliant example of this - they're everywhere because once their previous owner has either sold it or no longer 'needs it', it moves on to another owner and because it's so durable it goes through the hands of multiple people until it falls apart. Power Armour would be no different - I can easily imagine those Founding Chapter's (the former Legions) still have stocks of older power armour marks that are doing absolutely nothing. New Chapter being raised with their gene-seed? Clean out the armouries a little & donate some suits of armour to them.