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Ok so im new to the 40k universe but i know enough that mankind hate xenos, but when the emperor was alive was he even aware of races such as The Eldar, Tau, ork, ect ect? and if he did not know about races such as Eldar and Tau, do you think mankind would be at war with them?

If the Emperor is truly wise and incredible, he would have united all space.

SO....is that a no he did not know?

Backspacehacker wrote:SO....is that a no he did not know?

"some" not all.

Ok, form what i do know it seem like if he was still around we would have made allies with the Tau and possibly the eldar

Um, yes. There are multiple mentions of Orks, Eldar, etc in the Horus Heresy series, and throughout the fluff of the last 25 years. And he was aware of Chaos, even if it was not as physically present during 30K.

The only "new" species (with armies in the game) in 40K are Tyranids, Necrons, and Tau (the Dark Eldar appear to have been retroactively added to some of the "older" stories and fluff).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Backspacehacker wrote:Ok, form what i do know it seem like if he was still around we would have made allies with the Tau and possibly the eldar

By "we" I assume you mean The Imperium, and no, the Emperor didn't seem too interested in making friends with the Eldar. In all likelihood, if the Emperor hadn't died, mankind's technological level would have continued to improve, and the Imperium would have just brushed aside and wiped out the Eldar and Tau.

The Tau were probably only toads or whatever creature they evolved from at the time the Emperor was walking around. They are a fairly young race.

To safeguard the life of man all Xenos had to be exterminated. He was a bit of an ass like that.

We haven't made permanent alliances with either of those races. Temporary non violence pacts maybe, but allies, nope. To make allies with either you have to accept and put up with their way of life and them ours. The Eldar believe the Galaxy still belongs to them and the Tau only serve the Greater Good.

He was certainly aware of orks, he was nearly killed by one.

He never would have allied with Xeno, he is the one who started the 'kill everything that isn't human' (well.. at least started the imperium on that path, I assume it occured to people in the past to try).
That's not to say he was a massive xenophobe or anything, it just seems like his original idea was to unite all of humanity, kill all the xenos and when there is nothing left in the galaxy other than a united human empire there would be peace.

Yes, He was, but while He did order the destruction of every xenos race that stood in the way of Mankind's domination and was potentially touched by Chaos, He wasn't a xenophobe to the bone. Evidence for this is the tacit approval of Fulgrim's initial attempts to negotiate peace with the Eldar. The Emperor and the Council approved of the effort, showing that the Imperium and the Emperor at the time were at least open to the idea of cooperation and perhaps, long-term assimilation into the Imperium, of peaceful and benign non-Chaos touched xenos races. Another evidence is that the Eldar attack on Fulgrim is considered an insult to the offered hand of friendship by Imperial historians even in the 42nd Millennium.

Tadashi wrote:Yes, He was, but while He did order the destruction of every xenos race that stood in the way of Mankind's domination and was potentially touched by Chaos, He wasn't a xenophobe to the bone. Evidence for this is the tacit approval of Fulgrim's initial attempts to negotiate peace with the Eldar. The Emperor and the Council approved of the effort, showing that the Imperium and the Emperor at the time were at least open to the idea of cooperation and perhaps, long-term assimilation into the Imperium, of peaceful and benign non-Chaos touched xenos races. Another evidence is that the Eldar attack on Fulgrim is considered an insult to the offered hand of friendship by Imperial historians even in the 42nd Millennium.

Well, yeah, it's fine for the Imperium to attack the inferior Xenos scum, but how dare they try the same thing?

Tadashi wrote:Evidence for this is the tacit approval of Fulgrim's initial attempts to negotiate peace with the Eldar. The Emperor and the Council approved of the effort, showing that the Imperium and the Emperor at the time were at least open to the idea of cooperation and perhaps, long-term assimilation into the Imperium, of peaceful and benign non-Chaos touched xenos races. Another evidence is that the Eldar attack on Fulgrim is considered an insult to the offered hand of friendship by Imperial historians even in the 42nd Millennium.

He approved Fulgrims meeting with the Eldar, or did Fulgrim just decide to do this himself? The Eldar are a Non - Chaos touched race? Still considered an Insult, where did you get that one from Tadashi?

Pilau Rice wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Evidence for this is the tacit approval of Fulgrim's initial attempts to negotiate peace with the Eldar. The Emperor and the Council approved of the effort, showing that the Imperium and the Emperor at the time were at least open to the idea of cooperation and perhaps, long-term assimilation into the Imperium, of peaceful and benign non-Chaos touched xenos races. Another evidence is that the Eldar attack on Fulgrim is considered an insult to the offered hand of friendship by Imperial historians even in the 42nd Millennium.

He approved Fulgrims meeting with the Eldar, or did Fulgrim just decide to do this himself? The Eldar are a Non - Chaos touched race? Still considered an Insult, where did you get that one from Tadashi?

Tacit approval...no reprimand was made against Fulgrim for trying to, and Eldar aren't touched by Chaos, you're thinking of Dark Eldar. And even the Imperial Administration was considering making the Laer an Imperial Protectorate but Fulgrim said no. Apparently, they were too far from Mankind's image for him to consider it, but the Eldar were, 'close enough'. I might have exaggerated the last part about the insult, but Fulgrim and the Remembrancers in his fleet considered it as an insult, and considering that the Imperium at the time was obsessed with recording history as much as the current one is obsessed with revising it, the entire Remembrancer Order probably recorded it as one.

Tadashi wrote:Tacit approval...no reprimand was made against Fulgrim for trying to

All acts of the Primarchs were under the Emperor, but Fulgrim didn't seek a specific grant from the Emperor to do this. He took it upon himself to have the meeting with Eldrad.

Tadashi wrote:Eldar aren't touched by Chaos, you're thinking of Dark Eldar

No, I'm thinking of the Eldar. All Eldar are touched by Chaos, their excesses gave birth to a Chaos God that gets their souls when they die. They might be anti - Chaos, but they are still tied to Slaanesh.

Tadashi wrote:And even the Imperial Administration was considering making the Laer an Imperial Protectorate but Fulgrim said no. Apparently, they were too far from Mankind's image for him to consider it, but the Eldar were, 'close enough'. I might have exaggerated the last part about the insult, but Fulgrim and the Remembrancers in his fleet considered it as an insult, and considering that the Imperium at the time was obsessed with recording history as much as the current one is obsessed with revising it, the entire Remembrancer Order probably recorded it as one.

Only because they believed the war with the Laer would take to long and be too costly, Fulgrim thought otherwise.

The Emperor in no way granted any kind of permission for apProval for Fulgrim's parlay with the Eldar. Fulgrim never reported it as he virus bombed about all the nearby maiden world's out of spite. It has been stated that virus bombs can only ever be sanctioned by the Emperor or Warmaster Horus. Fulgrim did not seek permission from either of these as he was essentially destroying perfect worlds that should have been colonised. I think the Emperor quite clearly was a Xenophobe, he sought to force his way into the webway which the Eldar would never have allowed. Oddly enough enough the moronic Council of Terra did tell Fulgrim to try and parlay with the Laer, a race of Slaaneshi worshipping worms...go figure.

In fact, according to several character dialogues in the HH series, other than the Thousand Son's who seem to respect the Eldar, many of the founding Legions despised them more than any other race. Remember the Imperium was young back then and often couldnt tell the difference between Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar or Pirate Eldar, so one factions actions would reflect badly on the rest.

Tau did not even exist until M35 if I'm not mistaken so would not have existed back then. Even if they did, the Tau philosophy would not have allowed them to bow down to the imperium even if offered the chance, so they would have been destroyed. A fully fledged, united Imperium would have wiped the Tau out in days.

Even human society's that had peaceful relations with Xenos such as the Interex or the Diasporex were exterminated just for being considered "tainted" by Aliens.

In Legion, one of the Cabal mentions how they would have considered letting the BIG E join them but decided he was too single minded and would not have ever looked after the interests of other races.

KorPhaeron77 wrote:
In Legion, one of the Cabal mentions how they would have considered letting the BIG E join them but decided he was too single minded and would not have ever looked after the interests of other races.

And rightly so. Most xenos races are below notice, that's why; compared to Mankind, what are they?

The only races worthy of respect (even if only as worthy and dangerous enemies) are the Eldar, the Orks, the Necrons, the Tyranids, and to a certain degree, the Tau. Every other race out there is worth dirt and should just be burned to ashes. Unless, they're semi-sentient and have something worth them getting subjugated (Jokaero).

And the Cabal were idiots. If the Alpha Legion joining Horus was supposed to destroy Chaos, why is the Imperium fighting hard to keep back the tide? Bunch of fools...

The Emperor probably despised the Orks moreso than anything else, but he knew of Xenos, not the latter Tyranid or Tau. I believe that he knew Necrons existed, but didn't call them Necrons, considering he fought the Void Dragon/Necrontyr on Mars dabbled in things that could repress the warp (Like his Golden Toilet).

Veteran Sergeant wrote:By "we" I assume you mean The Imperium, and no, the Emperor didn't seem too interested in making friends with the Eldar. In all likelihood, if the Emperor hadn't died, mankind's technological level would have continued to improve, and the Imperium would have just brushed aside and wiped out the Eldar.

I doubt it. You're talking about a race that had existed long before there was an Emperor. A race so advanced that they could feat of their pleasures and create a Chaos God and the Eye of Terror. Their weaponry (at least fluff wise) and their knowledge of the Black Library and the Webway would prevent their total extinction.

KplKeegan wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:By "we" I assume you mean The Imperium, and no, the Emperor didn't seem too interested in making friends with the Eldar. In all likelihood, if the Emperor hadn't died, mankind's technological level would have continued to improve, and the Imperium would have just brushed aside and wiped out the Eldar.

I doubt it. You're talking about a race that had existed long before there was an Emperor. A race so advanced that they could feat of their pleasures and create a Chaos God and the Eye of Terror. Their weaponry (at least fluff wise) and their knowledge of the Black Library and the Webway would prevent their total extinction.

And the Webway being broken into and conquered by Magnus and the Emperor won't make that happen? The Black Library was probably going to be given as a gift along with the Golden Throne and the Webway by the Emperor to Magnus as a source of 'non-Chaos touched sorcery' or something. And the Emperor was planning to safely accelerate Human psychic evolution, which ensure we would replace Eldar not just as the dominant species, but as the dominant psychic species in the galaxy.

Pilau Rice wrote:
To safeguard the life of man all Xenos had to be exterminated. He was a bit of an ass like that.

Not quite.
Any Xenos that were a threat had to be exterminated, or that stood in the way of human conquest.
It's debatable whether current Imperial Policy is much different really. Do the High Lords of Terra really want to wipe out all Eldar/Tau/non-evil Xenos? Probably not, but they should get the hell out of the way.

Tadashi wrote:

KplKeegan wrote:

Veteran Sergeant wrote:By "we" I assume you mean The Imperium, and no, the Emperor didn't seem too interested in making friends with the Eldar. In all likelihood, if the Emperor hadn't died, mankind's technological level would have continued to improve, and the Imperium would have just brushed aside and wiped out the Eldar.

I doubt it. You're talking about a race that had existed long before there was an Emperor. A race so advanced that they could feat of their pleasures and create a Chaos God and the Eye of Terror. Their weaponry (at least fluff wise) and their knowledge of the Black Library and the Webway would prevent their total extinction.

And the Webway being broken into and conquered by Magnus and the Emperor won't make that happen? The Black Library was probably going to be given as a gift along with the Golden Throne and the Webway by the Emperor to Magnus as a source of 'non-Chaos touched sorcery' or something. And the Emperor was planning to safely accelerate Human psychic evolution, which ensure we would replace Eldar not just as the dominant species, but as the dominant psychic species in the galaxy.

I don't think they'd have enough clout to entirely ursurp the Eldar from the Webway and the Black Library is guarded by the Harlequins and the Black Libraries Sentinels (which we're given a vague sense of them being the nastiest things the Eldar produced), which follow the still existing Laughing God. And I believe the Black Library contains all the knowledge of Chaos, so if the Heresy didn't happen, it would start right there as soon as Magnus opened the first book.

And even if the Emperor was accelerating Human psyker potential, it'd be a long time before they could match wits with the race that created the Eye of Terror and Slaneesh through their very emotions.

And Isha is still alive, still trapped in Nurgles Garden. If a certain Mary-Sue would stop futzing around on his arse and release her, I bet the Eldar would have a better spring in their step.

KplKeegan wrote:

I don't think they'd have enough clout to entirely ursurp the Eldar from the Webway and the Black Library is guarded by the Harlequins and the Black Libraries Sentinels (which we're given a vague sense of them being the nastiest things the Eldar produced), which follow the still existing Laughing God. And I believe the Black Library contains all the knowledge of Chaos, so if the Heresy didn't happen, it would start right there as soon as Magnus opened the first book.

And even if the Emperor was accelerating Human psyker potential, it'd be a long time before they could match wits with the race that created the Eye of Terror and Slaneesh through their very emotions.

And Isha is still alive, still trapped in Nurgles Garden. If a certain Mary-Sue would stop futzing around on his arse and release her, I bet the Eldar would have a better spring in their step.

The Emperor stabs the Black Library's Infinity Circuit (or it's equivalent) and unleashes His full power...BANG! There goes the Sentinels...

I doubt Magnus would be alone working on the Black Library...the Emperor's going to be there helping him...or, more likely, while Magnus is out conquering, repairing and expanding the Webway (with Khan hunting DE across the ruins of Commoragh) the Emperor is 'filtering' the Black Library for what's safe to give to Magnus and what to burn. And if the Chaos Powers fear the Emperor, why wouldn't Cegorach fear Him either? Cegorach may have escaped Slaanesh, but he can barely confront the latter whenever he tries to save a Solitaire's soul. And the Emperor would have no reason to save Isha. Best to let her die in the Garden as the Imperial Truth starves Chaos into partial-stability; less trouble from the Eldar. And even if it would take a while to replace the Eldar, the Legions can simply burn the Craftworlds when the time comes. A simultaneous attack through the Webway with a full Expeditionary Fleet against Commoragh, the Craftworlds, and the Black Library would destroy majority of the Eldar species in one devastating stroke.

Joey wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
To safeguard the life of man all Xenos had to be exterminated. He was a bit of an ass like that.

Not quite.
Any Xenos that were a threat had to be exterminated, or that stood in the way of human conquest.
It's debatable whether current Imperial Policy is much different really. Do the High Lords of Terra really want to wipe out all Eldar/Tau/non-evil Xenos? Probably not, but they should get the hell out of the way.

Which pretty much means exterminate the Xeno's, like I said.

Why would they not want to wipe out Xenos? What benefit, apart from proving as a distraction, do other Xenos provide to the Imperium? Jokaero being one of the few exceptions.

Tadashi wrote:
The Emperor stabs the Black Library's Infinity Circuit (or it's equivalent) and unleashes His full power...BANG! There goes the Sentinels...

I doubt Magnus would be alone working on the Black Library...the Emperor's going to be there helping him...or, more likely, while Magnus is out conquering, repairing and expanding the Webway (with Khan hunting DE across the ruins of Commoragh) the Emperor is 'filtering' the Black Library for what's safe to give to Magnus and what to burn. And if the Chaos Powers fear the Emperor, why wouldn't Cegorach fear Him either? Cegorach may have escaped Slaanesh, but he can barely confront the latter whenever he tries to save a Solitaire's soul. And the Emperor would have no reason to save Isha. Best to let her die in the Garden as the Imperial Truth starves Chaos into partial-stability; less trouble from the Eldar. And even if it would take a while to replace the Eldar, the Legions can simply burn the Craftworlds when the time comes. A simultaneous attack through the Webway with a full Expeditionary Fleet against Commoragh, the Craftworlds, and the Black Library would destroy majority of the Eldar species in one devastating stroke.

I .. er ..

Pilau Rice wrote:

Joey wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
To safeguard the life of man all Xenos had to be exterminated. He was a bit of an ass like that.

Not quite.
Any Xenos that were a threat had to be exterminated, or that stood in the way of human conquest.
It's debatable whether current Imperial Policy is much different really. Do the High Lords of Terra really want to wipe out all Eldar/Tau/non-evil Xenos? Probably not, but they should get the hell out of the way.

Which pretty much means exterminate the Xeno's, like I said.

Why would they not want to wipe out Xenos? What benefit, apart from proving as a distraction, do other Xenos provide to the Imperium? Jokaero being one of the few exceptions.

Well it just wouldn't be worth it in terms of resources. Why send billions of men to attack a Tau planet that's no threat to the Imperium when there's plenty of places those troops could be much more useful.

Joey wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Joey wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
To safeguard the life of man all Xenos had to be exterminated. He was a bit of an ass like that.

Not quite.
Any Xenos that were a threat had to be exterminated, or that stood in the way of human conquest.
It's debatable whether current Imperial Policy is much different really. Do the High Lords of Terra really want to wipe out all Eldar/Tau/non-evil Xenos? Probably not, but they should get the hell out of the way.

Which pretty much means exterminate the Xeno's, like I said.

Why would they not want to wipe out Xenos? What benefit, apart from proving as a distraction, do other Xenos provide to the Imperium? Jokaero being one of the few exceptions.

Well it just wouldn't be worth it in terms of resources. Why send billions of men to attack a Tau planet that's no threat to the Imperium when there's plenty of places those troops could be much more useful.

Unless Farsight kills all Ethereals and creates a new, more ruthless Tau Empire. In that case, the Tau will become a more pressing priority.

Joey wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Joey wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
To safeguard the life of man all Xenos had to be exterminated. He was a bit of an ass like that.

Not quite.
Any Xenos that were a threat had to be exterminated, or that stood in the way of human conquest.
It's debatable whether current Imperial Policy is much different really. Do the High Lords of Terra really want to wipe out all Eldar/Tau/non-evil Xenos? Probably not, but they should get the hell out of the way.

Which pretty much means exterminate the Xeno's, like I said.

Why would they not want to wipe out Xenos? What benefit, apart from proving as a distraction, do other Xenos provide to the Imperium? Jokaero being one of the few exceptions.

Well it just wouldn't be worth it in terms of resources. Why send billions of men to attack a Tau planet that's no threat to the Imperium when there's plenty of places those troops could be much more useful.

So the Tau just sit back, relax and are happy with their own little corner of the Universe and haven't looked to increase their Empire?

One less Xenos threat is one less Xenos threat.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Joey wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:

Joey wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:
To safeguard the life of man all Xenos had to be exterminated. He was a bit of an ass like that.

Not quite.
Any Xenos that were a threat had to be exterminated, or that stood in the way of human conquest.
It's debatable whether current Imperial Policy is much different really. Do the High Lords of Terra really want to wipe out all Eldar/Tau/non-evil Xenos? Probably not, but they should get the hell out of the way.

Which pretty much means exterminate the Xeno's, like I said.

Why would they not want to wipe out Xenos? What benefit, apart from proving as a distraction, do other Xenos provide to the Imperium? Jokaero being one of the few exceptions.

Well it just wouldn't be worth it in terms of resources. Why send billions of men to attack a Tau planet that's no threat to the Imperium when there's plenty of places those troops could be much more useful.

So the Tau just sit back, relax and are happy with their own little corner of the Universe and haven't looked to increase their Empire?

One less Xenos threat is one less Xenos threat.

Agreed, but a full-on Crusade into Tau space would be one of the biggest bloodbaths in Imperial history. The Imperium can and will steamroller the Tau, regardless of their technological superiority. Thing is, the troops (both Guard and Astartes among others) and ships needed to fight that Crusade are needed elsewhere, against Tyranids mostly, but also against Orks and Necrons.

And it's not like the Tau are having things their way either. A few Hive Fleets have invaded Tau space recently, and while they've been repelled, they're under no illusion what would happen if either the Imperium, the Orks, and the Tyranids turned their full attention on them. The first is unlikely. The second is already happening - see the War of Dakka. And it's only a matter of time before a genestealer cult draws a major fleet into Tau space.

Well he obviously knew about Dark eldar, if not from first hand experience then Vulkan at least would've told him about them.

Nocturne being plagued by constant raids untill Vulcan smashed them to gribblies anyway.

My point had been that if the Heresy had'nt have happened, the Emperor would still not have made terms with the Tau, he would have unleashed his legions on them and wiped them out. In fact, had it not been for a chance warp storm, the modern imperium would have done just that when the planet was discovered with primitive life on it.

Tadashi wrote:
Agreed, but a full-on Crusade into Tau space would be one of the biggest bloodbaths in Imperial history. The Imperium can and will steamroller the Tau, regardless of their technological superiority. Thing is, the troops (both Guard and Astartes among others) and ships needed to fight that Crusade are needed elsewhere, against Tyranids mostly, but also against Orks and Necrons.

And it's not like the Tau are having things their way either. A few Hive Fleets have invaded Tau space recently, and while they've been repelled, they're under no illusion what would happen if either the Imperium, the Orks, and the Tyranids turned their full attention on them. The first is unlikely. The second is already happening - see the War of Dakka. And it's only a matter of time before a genestealer cult draws a major fleet into Tau space.

No ones saying that it wouldn't be costly, nor that the Tau don't have their own issues. Every race has some kind of cack going on, somewhere.

The only good Xenos is a dead Xenos, unless they can be bought to heel and dominated.