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Hey all,

Im new to 40k here. Bought the AoBR set to get started.
I have been having battles on a 4x4 table with a buddy of mine.
Ive also been running simulated battles on my own to get more comfortable with the rules.

Space Marines: 585 pts
Captain (botl gun, pwr sword)
Tac Squad (10) (bolt guns, 1 flamer, 1 missle)
Dreadnought (multi melta, storm bolter, cc)
Termies (5) (storm bolter) (pwr fist, 1 pwr sword)

Orks: 450 pts
Warboss (shoota, pwr claw)
nobz (5) (slugga, choppa)
defcoptas (3) (twin linked rokkit launcha, choppa)
Boyz (20) (slugga, choppa)
(Why the box set doesn't give you matched army points.. I have no idea. So we add another group of boys, or lootas to even out the value.)

I like space marines due to their toughness and accuracy. But almost every time I play, Orks overrun them by turn 2 or 3 with a Waaaagh!
It seems like I can't lower their numbers fast enough before they get into a full assault. (not to mention the crazy bonuses they get for having Furious Charge and the +1 attack for launching the assault)

What's a Space marines best strategy for dealing with the Horde?

Rapid fire weapons infuriate me as they prevent me from launching assaults (no attack bonus)

The dreadnought is absolutely useless. It usually explodes off the first turn before it can get in range to do much, due to the scouting defcoptas and their twin linked rokkit launcha's.
(Im thinking of swapping the dread out for some assault marines. )

I also wonder if getting some more difficult terrain would help to mitigate the Waaaagh!

(One last note, we don't want to push our army sizes too far due to our small table size.)

Any thoughts?

Hit the boyz mob with a Frag, use the rapid fire to advance while rapid firing and get into flamer range instead of assaulting

Assault the Nobs with the Terminators, their Power Fists will instant death the Nobs

Beyond that I don't know.

Firstly, yeah, a multimelta dread isn't adding much to your list. If there's any way you can swap out the arms for something else, I'd recommend.

Anyways, the way to beat the horde in this case is with shooting. With proper deployment, you should be able to get at LEAST a round of single-tapping bolters, and a round of double-tapping bolters. Add to that the termies which get to double-tap anything from up to 30" away (with movement), and you've got enough. For a statistical reference, a round of single+double from 8 tac marines and two rounds of double with 5 termies puts down 15 wounds, and that's not even counting the flamer. Not enough to wipe out the boyz flat out, but roughly 5 boyz are going to be more than manageable for space marines in close combat.

Also, don't forget combat tactics. If you're in a jam, you can always back up and fire off more bolters next turn.

Basically, he's going to be better than you on the charge (but, I'd note, not really better once things get settled in), but you're going to be better than him at every point before that. I know you said you're struggling to thin the horde before it's too late, but it's still the proper solution. Just keep working at it until you get a real feel for your small arms, and other shooting principles (like target prioritization, and focusing fire, etc.).

Keep them at arm's length. Ork Slugga Boyz are virtually useless if they can't get into close combat, don't let them.

The Black Reach set isn't exactly optimized for this theory; your best weapon against a horde is long-ranged blast weaponry and you've only got one missile launcher in that list. Get your hands on more missile launchers as soon as possible, use flamers if you have to get in close, and take the Ork charge on your Terminators rather than leaving the Tactical squad in the Orks' path.

if You are just using aobr and nothing more realize this:

1. the only thing that can kill the dreadnaught is the deffkoptas and the warboss. If you get the dread into an assault with a bunch of boys you are safe. If the warboss charges in attack the warboss and instant kill him.

2. Put the dread in cover, or try to keep him out of los completely from the koptas, cover will give you a 4+ save which should help.

3. try to make the orks move through difficult terrain to get to you. This might make them miss the charge with the waaagh because they rolled poorly on the way towards you.

4. if it comes down to where just the terminators are left try to fall back and keep the orks more than 12" away for an extra turn or two.

5. if it comes down to you charging or the orks charging, you want to charge. This way the regular boys will need 5's to wound you instead of 4's and do not get an extra attack (so each model will swing 3 times instead of 4). This will help alot.

6. Your rough kill priority should be 1. deffkoptas (until the dread dies), 2. if the warboss is attached to the nobs then the 20 block of boyz, if not the nobs (you might make them run off the table if you kill 2).

7. One last tactical consideration is to deploy the dread further back, or in such a way that the deffcoptas scout move puts them in rapid fire range, or range of the terminators, or an assault on turn 1 before they can threaten the walker. After the game starts you can always run back towards the dreadnaught and not lose much distance to the attacking boys.

If you are going to tinker with the lists I'd honestly consider changing the terminators (the aobr nobs aren't much of a threat because they lack the wargear that makes nobs dangerous). Also you might want to consider just giving the terminator a missle launcher instead of the multimelta (more range still instakills deffcoptas).

Hope this gives you some things to try.

Yea, tarpit the orks with your dreadnought or make the wrecked dreadnought an obstacle and hang back until YOU get the charge.

Don't be afraid to assault the orks yourself. Marines have Bolt Pistols you know.

If the orks are within 12", move up, shoot your pistols and Flamer, then assault them yourself.

You deny them their FC bonuses, which is a pretty hefty blow. They only wound you on 5s.


The average damage a Tactical squad does when they charge a mob is as follows.

9 pistol shots and a Flamer(assuming 4 hits)

Average of 6 pistol hits plus 4 for the flamer. 5 boyz down with no saves.

Then the marines assault and smack the orks first.

22 attacks(Sergeant has 4 and 2 each for the 9 regular marines) kills roughly another 4 orks.


The tactical squad can kill 9 ork boyz before they swing. Assuming there is just the 20 boyz from AoBR with no PK Nob.

11 boyz swing back. 33 attacks kills 2 marines after saves. Orks lose combat by 2 and lose 2 additional Boyz due to Fearless wounds.


This is all assuming you did no damage to the mob in prior turns with your shooting. Long range bolter shots and Frag blasts should pick off at least 5 boyz before you charge in.

The AoBR box is way unfair to the Orks. Not enough Boyz and there should be a PK Nob.

Grey Templar wrote:Don't be afraid to assault the orks yourself. Marines have Bolt Pistols you know.

If the orks are within 12", move up, shoot your pistols and Flamer, then assault them yourself.

You deny them their FC bonuses, which is a pretty hefty blow. They only wound you on 5s.


The average damage a Tactical squad does when they charge a mob is as follows.

9 pistol shots and a Flamer(assuming 4 hits)

Average of 6 pistol hits plus 4 for the flamer. 5 boyz down with no saves.

Then the marines assault and smack the orks first.

22 attacks(Sergeant has 4 and 2 each for the 9 regular marines) kills roughly another 4 orks.


The tactical squad can kill 9 ork boyz before they swing. Assuming there is just the 20 boyz from AoBR with no PK Nob.

11 boyz swing back. 33 attacks kills 2 marines after saves. Orks lose combat by 2 and lose 2 additional Boyz due to Fearless wounds.


This is all assuming you did no damage to the mob in prior turns with your shooting. Long range bolter shots and Frag blasts should pick off at least 5 boyz before you charge in.

The AoBR box is way unfair to the Orks. Not enough Boyz and there should be a PK Nob.

this!

585 points space marines in a good format vs 450 points of orks.

I'd reccommend setting up with your dred behind cover or in cover that is enough for a 4+ cover save if possible, your multimelta and missle should be shooting the koptas firt as you will be hitting on 3's wounding on 2's and instant killing them. after that templates on the orks, and as said above the absolute biggest thign is to deny the chargs. reducing them to 3 attacks w/ strength 3 is huge .

also on setup terminators should be in front of the marines to give them a 4+ cover vs rokkits since they still get a 2+ armour save vs them., and if you can assault a deffkopta with anything if you

Grey Templar wrote:If the orks are within 12", move up, shoot your pistols and Flamer, then assault them yourself.

Average of 6 pistol hits plus 4 for the flamer. 5 boyz down with no saves.

You have to be very, very careful with this, though. If you kill 5 boyz, and your opponent removes the 5 closest boyz, it is VERY possible to kill yourself out of assault range.

In the end, orks have WAAAUGH! and space marines don't. Don't be afraid to charge when when your opponent gives you the opportunity, but don't waste too much effort trying to make an opportunity where one may never exist, especially at the sake of tried and truer methods for handling the charge.

Oh, also, don't be afraid to use combat squads. Have half your marine squad 6" in front of your other marine squad so that the boyz can only charge one, and then are all but guaranteed to eat an extra round of bolter fire from your termies and the other half of your marines.

One last thing:

BoniFactor wrote:(One last note, we don't want to push our army sizes too far due to our small table size.)

I understand what you're trying to do, but there are two things to consider. The first is that a 4x4 foot board is plenty big up to 1000 and it's even possible to do 1500's at this board size (if a little uncomfortably crammed).

Secondly, 40k armies are designed to be balanced for 1500 point games. It shouldn't come as too big of a surprise that some armies just don't handle huge and tiny games as well as other armies. This here is a classic example. Orks can scale down to low points levels much more cleanly than SM. If you bring your points up to even 750, things will start being better, and by 1000 points this effect will disappear.

AnomanderRake wrote:Keep them at arm's length. Ork Slugga Boyz are virtually useless if they can't get into close combat, don't let them.

The Black Reach set isn't exactly optimized for this theory; your best weapon against a horde is long-ranged blast weaponry and you've only got one missile launcher in that list. Get your hands on more missile launchers as soon as possible, use flamers if you have to get in close, and take the Ork charge on your Terminators rather than leaving the Tactical squad in the Orks' path.

^ This. If you have your marines behind your terminators, your marines can shoot at long range and the terminators can move back 6" and shoot at 24" still. So move back, shoot, move back, shoot (to buy more time and more shots), now your terminators are probably going to be assaulted, but you'll lose less than if your marines are charged, and then rapid fire the marines into un-engaged units/charge in and bail out the terminators. You would want your captain with the tac squad.

It's a crude form of hammer and anvil- the marines are the hammer (oh god I just called a tac squad a hammer >< and the terminators are the anvil. Hold the enemy on the anvil, smash him with hammer

Well, to beat the Horde, you must first grab your sword.

Then you must fight the Horde.

It's a crude form of hammer and anvil- the marines are the hammer (oh god I just called a tac squad a hammer >< and the terminators are the anvil. Hold the enemy on the anvil, smash him with hammer

Heresy! You are supposed to run blindly into the Orks!

You guys are awesome!

Such good advice. I can't wait to try these tactics out tonight.