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I've recently started playing Tyranids as a break from my usual foot guard and have tried out Warriors in both of my last games. At 1000 points a squad of 6 or 7 plus a Prime all armed with deathspitters and 2 boneswords is almost half the points of my army, but wow. So deadyl. With 7+prime that's 24 srength 5 shots that hits on 3's, and as an assualt gun has an effective range of 19-24". Add in a barbed strangler and you have a shooty unit that ROCKS in close conbat. Since they're infantry, it's easy to get cover for them, and if you add a tervigon you can either give them feel no pain (take krack missiiles on the prime for cover and FnP with his toughness 5, and they benefit greatly from the psykic power that makes them run and then shoot.

They definatly have their weaknesses (squads with more than one Missile lancher or lascannon), and the ones I used are pricey at 45 per model, but well supported they seem to rock. I'm wondering why I've never seen them used by anyone else when I play against nids with my guard.

Most people who run marines or guard have about 8-12 missile launcher or similar str weapons in their army. So a warrior squad like yours could be wiped in a single shooting phase!

8-12 in a 1000 point army?, Okay, but hiding behind a wall of termigaunts gives them a 4+ cover save right out in the open, since they're infantry, and no BiD for guard on them. So 12 missiles might score 8 hits, 7 wounds, one on the prime and 3 dead warriors, less if they don't have all their missile lauchers in one squad. That's all the heavy weapons in the army shooting and half the squad dead. My hive Tyrant with wings is unhurt and attacking/slaughtering at will. I appologize for the mathhammer and as a footguard player I know full well about why the game is called Warhammer 40k and not Mathhammer 40'000 (although you can't tell me you wouldn't buy a boardgame called MATHHAMMER 40'000: In the grim darkness of the future there are only formulas and equations).
Like I said, I know they have weaknesses, but they won me both games so far. I'm just surprised that I've actually not once seen them played before. I think they're just super undervalued.


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I'm really liking this mathhammer thing. You could even use the same models. All the Marines have PhD's or masters attatched to their armour instead of purity seals.

I run 3 Vindicators in my BA 1000 point army. They cost 75 points more than all your warriors but will make a mess of them. Have you run up against a mech heavy army with them yet?

Just transports, but you're vindicators only make a mess of them if the get past the hive guards and winged tyrant. I'm not saying they will or won't just that I havn't fought the vindicators yet so I don't know. Yes, under the right circumstances they will crush them. But I might have taken 9 hive guard instead and I don't like you mech heavy lists chances then. I don't think that just because my opponant might bring 3 vindicators if he's blood angels and goes mech is reason enough to dismiss them out of hand. On the weekend I might play my new nids instead of my guard vs a Chaos marine player with 2 defilers and a lash prince. I'm sure I'll see what you're talking about then, but if he doesn't blow them up before those defilers go down the warriors will eat the rest of his army alive. Literally. I think. I'm not sure if anything other than ripper swarms actually eats things.

The real point is that they are vulnerable to S8+ firepower, and are not particularly fast. Its hard to use them effectively enough to make them worthwhile before they die to that S8+ shooting. For instance, a single well placed battlecannon or demolisher cannon shot can devastate the squad. For most of the game the squad can be avoided, so the CC power is negated, and all you have left is the shooting power for most of the game. I'm not saying they are worthless, but their effectiveness is severely hampered by their lack of speed, and vulnerability to common S8 shooting weapons. With that many points put into your squad, you must not have much in the way of MCs. That will allow you opponent to focus all the S8+ on that squad - which will lead to 2 types of games wit your army :
1) your opponent has tons of S8+ shooting and annihilates your army before you do much
or
2) your opponent does not have enough/any S8 shooting to take it down, but still has a chance to outmaneuver you.

Fair enough, although I'll test it out multiple times before taking everyone's word for it. Since I'm assuming that everyone has the same problem with them, does anyone else actualy take them?

I have faced them a few times. One of the nid player at my lgs runs 2 squads. 1 are CC and the others are shooty. I've had good luck against them by throwing TH/SS termies into them and I have the rest of my army to take care of his.

I can see how 9 at 1000 points would be a little nasty. I'd like to see how they do.

I've used them several times; I'd like to use them more. However, they die in every game, usually horribly - often to S8 weapons or powerfists. They have been effective in CC, and acceptable with regards to shooting, but I do not think they are points-effective.

They are useful for providing synapse while guarding the backfield, though - dropping a barbed strangler round into the occasional enemy squad all game. I like to use them with Biovores.

I tried a Warrior/Shrike list once, every squad had a Venom Cannon and the Warriors dropped in via Mycetic Spre (which also had a Venom Cannon). So, facing a list with no heavy tanks and only 5 transports, using 27 bodies and 6 pods (that's 15 venom cannons), I managed to pop one transport and lose the game.

They don't do well unsupported, apparently! I think I rolled quite badly, as well. But in my experience, they do not work well as the 'anchor' of a force - good for support though!

I used 6 with boneswords and deathspitters (the str 5, assault 3 one), along with a prime armed the same. 2 hive guards (different squads), a tervigon with all 3 powers and both glands and 2 squads of 10 termagants and 2 squads of 10 hormaguants with both glands.

It was spearhead and capture and control. Both hormaguants went reserve and everything else went front and center as far forward as possible, taking cover behind the termagants. The tervigon advanced along with everything else and there were too many targets. With the cover saves and alternating between the run and shoot power and the feel no pain and the hormaguants rushing in later on, the warriors were able to shoot and finish off 2 combat squads in close combat, and then assault and wipe another that was holding an objective back in the marine deployment zone. By the end of the game they were down to three warriors and the prime.

Like I said, it could just be the army I was facing, but I'll have to try them out against chaos marines and tau tomorrow.

I have beaten everything with my warrior based nids except a mech guard army in a scenario that had me starting 36 inches away on the short board edges, giving him about 24 inches to back up in kill points.

Basically with runs it would take me 4 turns to get into close combat if he stood still. The Ig player I was against and I looked at the scenario and said good game, however we played it out anyway.

Yea.... I lost that one. Otherwise my nids were pretty much undefeated and I would have won that stupid tournament.

I ran a squad of 6 with adrenal glands and twin bone swords
I ran another squad of 6 with rending deathspitters

Hive tyrant with outflank and +1 reserves
Tervigon
Kept spawning my termagaunt screen for my warriors as they died. Moved the depleted unit back to hold my home objectives.
Deathleaper(so many psykers, he got mephiston to kill himself it was quite funny.)
dont remember the rest probably some hive guard.
O yea a mawloc and trygon.

Well, that's two more games down with the warriors and I definately think I'll keep using them. In both games they can down in a mycetic spore and made their points back in value if not things killed. I'm finding that they're great as shock troops but yes, very vulnerable to heavy weapon's fire. They have to get in and do their damage.before they get picked off.

Although this time I was playing against a marine army and a tau army first in a 1v1v1 and then a 2v1. I think that a number of small warrior squads would be very useful for target saturation with monsterous creatures. I'm finding that target saturation is crutial for my tyranids.

Eh, regular Warriors tend to suffer from a high volume of high strength shots. Its worse in certain armies (Guard, DE with their poison, Space Wolves, Grey Knights), and they can instant die from power fists, which is something you don't want them to do. Secondly, if you take too many, they can actually be a detrament, as they'll kill entire squads in the first assault leaving them open to get blown away.

They're not terrible, but certainly more frail. A brood of five is not bad, especially with a Prime. I've never considered Mycetic Spores.

optimusprime14 wrote:I run 3 Vindicators in my BA 1000 point army. They cost 75 points more than all your warriors but will make a mess of them. Have you run up against a mech heavy army with them yet?

I should really play with the Blood Angel book.

12" Vindicators who can still fire their demolisher cannon would be great.

EDIT: Any focused fire from pretty much anything will bring anything down. If you are using them as the hammer of your army, they'll get focused fired by any good player. Taking down your Warriors/Prime will also remove most of your Synapse. /shrug. One turn of shooting something with 48" range to kill half of your warriors means, before they get to you to use those fancy boneswords, they'll be corpses.

People who complain about how bad warriors are tend to be using them wrong, or play in areas with too much long fang missile stupid.

Warriors are excellent units, combine them with warrior primes to take shots and make sure they have cover, then with dual scything talons they will rip things apart.

I suggest not using ranged weapons, simply because warriors shine in melee. It's not useful trying to shoot when nids should be in melee.

Yes, I do regularly in my games. I consider them a core part of my 'Nids and rarely if ever go without them.

I have/use four Brood configurations fielded usually in seven's and sometimes in three's;

'Huntsmen' which is the default build (devouver, talons) with a barbed strangler.
The Beetlegun's morale mod makes the few times a pinning check happens more effective, just remember
to shoot the 'strangler last!

'Deathclaw' deathspitter and rending claws with a venom cannon. The allrounder. Strong shooting and
potent melee. The VC gives the unit a slight edge on units in cover. and the Claws give extra punch in
melee! Also decent (but not great) at popping transports in melee, with some potential to kill tougher ones.

'Humble beast' Huntsmen with both glands and sacs. This is a unit I usually have outflank with the
Hive Commander upgrade; being able to splat large and heavy infrantry in one unit while locking down
multiple targets and blocking back/midfield LOS is priceless. The magic is in the accuracy of hits and wounds!

'Cheese shredder' dual boneswords and deathspitter. This is the unit I have escort the Lash-whip Prime. Going
first with the Tyranid's best hammer unit? Awesome.


As has blindly and repeatedily be commentted on 'they're a big target, they eat missiles/heavy weapons.
True.

However, they also wreck face when they grab ahold of anything shy of a dedidcated melee unit
(TH/SS termies mainly). And even then they still can still put a hurtin' on. Yes, they're pricey for what
they do, but outside of the wondermus Trygon Prime, they are the superflexible 'go-to' unit for the Tyranids.
They also have an incredibly small footprint for the amount of hurt they can bring and endure! It's both a
curse and an unruly advantage; Since you can often win a multi-charge and give the rest of your army a break
to regroup and headhunt (by locking down forward units, blocking LOS and forcing the other guy to either go
'all in' or pull back). They can also march abreast and net any-would be 'fast' armor as they push forward. Rushing
means nothing to the Nids except a faster lunch!

Keep in mind some things about the 'Nids;

Outside of the moble MC's (Flyrant, Harpies, Trygon/Marlock) and Genestealers the whole darn army relies on mass
numbers and melee. Shooting? A side benefit for the big guys and a small bonus for the Terma's. The TW's are the
only unit that can put out relible dakka and still be a huge threat in melee. In other words you compact all the
greatness of the army into a single unit. Stratgey and Tactics are really the only true flaws of the TW; if you're always
loosing them, they simply are not being used right. They are either A) being used as fodder which is silly!
(We have a bug for that!) or B) Being used as pussy-footed shepards when the names says it all; Warrior! (which by
definition means "Willing to close with the enemy!"). Otherwise they are being ignored because everyone believes
they'll faint at some missiles being shot their way.

(Keep in mind that not a single unit in the entire Tyranid army operates alone including the Deathleaper! And not a
single one must sit still, it's an all-out-assault baby!) This is not an army of individual heroes or characters, but
a teeming, cunning, brutal beast that has one single drive; consume.

Few units in the entire game can successfully deal with both horde and MC combined melee. The Tyranids are
the only army that can relibly bring both all the time, at the same time, in the very same unit!

I'm glad to hear that other people are enjoying them as much as I am. The last game I dropped 7 with 2xboneswords and deathspitters down in a spore right in front of the Tau gunline, with a prime with a whip/bonesword and deathspitter as well. They opened up on the unit screening the broadsides, breaking it, ate fire for a round, then the next round the prime split off the slaughter the broadsides, while the warriors left to go make a mess of something else.

I'm going to start experimenting with different unit sizes and different armaments. I think the'd be great for target saturation with the other monsterous creatures and multi-wound infantry models.

I use Warriors all the time. I've made large armies (2000+ points) That the troops are almost entirely Warriors just for fun. And they can do a crapload of damage. Want to scare the crap out of someone? Drop 8 Talon/Dual Bonesword Warriors in a pod just out of LoS of an enemy. I don't care what the target is outside of TH/SS Termies, that unit is terrifying.

I use shooty Warriors very often as they have solid guns, they only lack range.

And I put Talons on every Warrior I use. Re-rolling 1's doesn't seem like much, but when you can only miss on a 2 on your first roll that isn't too shabby. And they are always FREE!

kungfujew wrote: So deadyl. With 7+prime that's 24 srength 5 shots that hits on 3's, and as an assualt gun has an effective range of 19-24". Add in a barbed strangler and you have a shooty unit that ROCKS in close conbat.
.

Um go recheck the codex, Both Deathspitter and devourers are only 18" range not 24". And that is one of the main reasons they don't see as much action as they used to.

A single Manticore could (and probably would) kill them all in one shot.

I like to hide a mid-sized unit of shooty Warriors in cover at the backfield on an objective. No one even bothers trying to shoot them out of there.

kungfujew wrote: Okay, but hiding behind a wall of termigaunts gives them a 4+ cover save right out in the open, since they're infantry, and no BiD for guard on them. So 12 missiles might score 8 hits, 7 wounds, one on the prime and 3 dead warriors, less if they don't have all their missile lauchers in one squad.
.

I think you may have missed something here.

If you have 7 warriors + a Prime then take 7 S8 wounds, you have 6 dead warriors and a wound on the prime. FnP does not work against ID , so even with a trevi you still got 6 dead warriors.

I like my Warriors, just not as much I liked them in the 4thed Codex.


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Joey wrote:A single Manticore could (and probably would) kill them all in one shot.

Lost an entire squad that way in a tournament. First time had faced a manticore and dropped 3 of those s10 ap4 pie plates directly on my squad.

It's difficult to discuss what's balanced and good in 40k in relation to 1000 point games because 1000 point games aren't balanced. However, if we are discussing Warriors in games of 40k at 1500+, they are not good. As it's been stated, competitive armies have tons of st 8.

GK will have at least 3 Psyfleman (12 st 8 a turn)
SW will have 3 packs of Long Fangs (12-15 st 8 a turn)
DE will have 15+ lance weapons (not to mention that they crush Nids regardless)
MEQ in general find ways to get missiles and melta in their lists
Guard will have tons of melta coming out of AV 12 (which your Warriors can't hurt at range)
Even the mirror match of Nids will rock you because good Nid players are running lots of Hive Guard

Just to name a few.

You will lose 3+ Warriors a turn. This includes factoring in allocating to the Prime and cover (you always have cover if you are playing right). Basically, they aren't worth it against good lists and players.

barnowl wrote:

kungfujew wrote: Okay, but hiding behind a wall of termigaunts gives them a 4+ cover save right out in the open, since they're infantry, and no BiD for guard on them. So 12 missiles might score 8 hits, 7 wounds, one on the prime and 3 dead warriors, less if they don't have all their missile lauchers in one squad.
.

I think you may have missed something here.

If you have 7 warriors + a Prime then take 7 S8 wounds, you have 6 dead warriors and a wound on the prime. FnP does not work against ID , so even with a trevi you still got 6 dead warriors.

I like my Warriors, just not as much I liked them in the 4thed Codex.

6 wounds allocated to warriors, 3 are saved with the 4+ cover, so 3 dead warriors.

barnowl wrote:

kungfujew wrote: So deadyl. With 7+prime that's 24 srength 5 shots that hits on 3's, and as an assualt gun has an effective range of 19-24". Add in a barbed strangler and you have a shooty unit that ROCKS in close conbat.
.

Um go recheck the codex, Both Deathspitter and devourers are only 18" range not 24". And that is one of the main reasons they don't see as much action as they used to.

19-24" is their threat range. 18" + movement

And re: the missile launcher wounds: It's highly unlikely that a single squad has 8-12 missile launchers, so you can assign multiply wound to the prime over a turn.

And to everyone who just states the str 8 thing, what is killing the rest of my army if everything is shooting at the warriors?

I really think that warriors are a very undervalued unit, especially with too many people making judgement calls on units from what appears to be unfounded internet advice.

Blanket statements like "one manticore shot will kill them" is what I wasn't looking for because that doesn't give you any useful info. That's like be saying manticores aren't useful because 1 melta shot will kill it. For the same 160 points of a manticore, I can have 3 warriors with deathspitters and rending claws pop out of a mycetic spore behind said manticore. I asked if anyone else used warriors to get an idea how other people use them, not why unimaginative internet lists don't include them. *sigh*

kungfujew wrote:And to everyone who just states the str 8 thing, what is killing the rest of my army if everything is shooting at the warriors?

The 100+ poison shots from Venoms and other DE troops.
The half-dozen razorbacks the Grey Hunters allowed the purchase of
The Nightspinner/Fire Prisms from the tanks that don't have EMLs.

It's not like an army has to devote everything into making the squad ineffective - just dropping it down to half or below strength is usually enough. And that usually takes a single shooting phase.

That said, I think I'm going to give them another try... if I can get enough boneswords made in time.

I think maybe warriors aren't as bad as I initially thought. Their basic problem is high S weapons, so maybe combining them with as many T6 wounds as possible could work. I still dont like them in big squads though. Maybe a couple smaller squads with primes supported by TMCs would work. I'll think on it, not like anything else really works in the codec anyways.

I do use them and they do die rapidly to the stupid large amount of s8+ firepower sitting on the the board. There is enough high S blast weapons to knock down large squads quickly with a single unit.

They compete with a better CC unit, 2 better wound sinks, a faster cc unit, a higher volume shooter, and a MC, and a more resilient synapse, which makes finding a slot for them hard.

Bone Swords make them fun with a HC Tyrant. You can outflank and take down the backfeild fire support.

As tall models, they can provide the 50% cover to MC so make for a poor mans Tyrant Guard ( which is why they get shot down early).

As the primary fighting force, they just don't have the staying power needed in 5th. I am hoping that changes a bit in 6th.

I dont play Tyranids but if i did, I'd play with Shrikes.

As for missile spam, my oppinion is, if you put some seriously ticked off customers on the board like Tyrannofex's and to a lesser extent, Tervigons, then you will find that warriors dont get nearly as much attention from missiles!

Also, Shrikes are uber fast and you can take a pair of the swarms to gaurd their flank from being slowed any by intrepid troopers.

So i am a big fan, personally, of the Shrike version of Warriors. Every time I try a list (which aint often) they are always in it.

Jancoran wrote:I dont play Tyranids but if i did, I'd play with Shrikes.

As for missile spam, my oppinion is, if you put some seriously ticked off customers on the board like Tyrannofex's and to a lesser extent, Tervigons, then you will find that warriors dont get nearly as much attention from missiles!

Also, Shrikes are uber fast and you can take a pair of the swarms to gaurd their flank from being slowed any by intrepid troopers.

So i am a big fan, personally, of the Shrike version of Warriors. Every time I try a list (which aint often) they are always in it.

I tried Lash Whip + Bonesword Shrikes with the Parasite once, but didn't really like it. The 5+ save really sucks if they fail to kill what they charge.