Lychguard... what kind of army?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Gornall**

I am currently building an army around Nemesor and 5+ Shield Lychguard, but I am not sure about the best way to go about it. Should I go "all-in" on assault with Wraiths, Spyders, and Scarabs? Or do I balance out their assault abilities with as much shooting as I can cram in? Any thoughts about which units/characters would synergize with this setup?

**McNinja**

The problem is that Necrons are a mostly-shooty army, and melee units are there to tarpit things you don't want touching your shooty guys.

That said, Lychguard (or a 20 Warrior blob) will definitely increse the life of Zahndrekh in-game. Let's see...

Spoiler:

Aside from that, I would suggest running a melee-heavy list, taking Obyron with the Nemesor, and having him run around with another unit of Lychguard, use Solar Pulses and/or Imotekh and move up under cover of night, then charge/get charged.

If you're using the Lychguard purely to increase Zahndrekh's survivability, then I would go more shooty, though both FA and HS (and troops, especially if you're going Night Scythe heavy) slots offer much in the way of the shoot, so taking the Lychguard would only gimp you in points, not slots available.

**Gornall**

I disagree that Nemesor doesn't offer much to Lychguard. His 2+/3++ and Res orb can help their survivability quite a bit. However, his lack of Phaeron makes him less suited for Warrior/Deathmark blobs IMO.

I agree that Nemesor and Lychguard are not top choices, but I am hoping that is due to upcoming changes in 6th and not Matt Ward.

I do like the idea of going whole hog with two units of Lychguard but wonder if their inefficency would weigh the whole list down too much. Dunno.

**McNinja**

Sure, the Nemesor helps them survive, but really, that's it. At least in a Deathmark blob if you happen into Rapid Fire range then everything wounds on 2s.

**MarkCron**

I like the Lychguard with swords and boards with a DespairTek (VoD) and Obyron (or a lord with Orb, Warscythe, MSS, PS) in my lists. The unit is really useful for just causing havoc and distracting the enemy in the first few turns. Massive firesoak and being able to reflect shots is hilarious. Generally, I find that if they don't make their points back, the other units (especially the Overlord/CCB) will have done really well because of the firing at the Lychguard.

Having Obyron and the despairtek seems like a doubleup, but it means I can detach Obyron and send him to kill tanks etc. Or, if he gets called by Varguard duty, I can still move the lychguard around.

I reckon 2 units would be a bit unbalanced - I add a couple of units of Deathmarks for more positional havoc.

**iGuy91**

x2 squads of lychguard with x1 veil of darkness and Obyron could be nasty, i've never tried to field it. You could have Zandrehk accompany one (likely the one with Zandrehk) for the res orb, or have him give orders from afar.
Wait a turn or so for the melee units to start marching.riding across the board, deep strike right next to some juicy long fangs or something, let them eat their own deflected shots from your invulns, and then assault next turn with a squad full of power weapons.
Obyron's scythe could also let them be useful against walkers or transports too.

Only thing is, this idea eats 225 x 2, (450) for just the lychguard, so this would be a large chunk of your force.

You'd need to carefully select the rest of your troops.

**Nightbringer's Chosen**

I've found that 7 Lychguard with a character (either a Lord or someone more notable) carrying a Resurrection Orb in a Night Scythe is quite mean.
For some reason 5 just gets killed, and trying to walk them across the board doesn't work too well, and Veiling them around gets risky since you're trying to get them close enough to the enemy to do something without mishapping. But the Scythe seems to do the trick nicely. Blind the enemy and turbo-boost it up one of the sides and it should survive to deliver its payload where it needs to go.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though I suppose that doesn't really answer your question. Personally I wouldn't run a completely close combat army, with them or without; Necrons have some good shooting, and there is little reason to limit yourself in such a way; I tend to use them in hybrid lists. And I think Lychguard are great for being that elite bully unit to take things out that need to be taken out. They're resilient and they punish units who try to give a last panicked salvo of white hot plasma/melta to ward off their attackers.

**skoffs**

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Scythe seems to do the trick nicely. Blind the enemy and turbo-boost it up one of the sides and it should survive to deliver its payload where it needs to go.

but... I thought a Scythe that moves more than 12 inches in the movement phase can't have it's occupants disembark?

**Kevin949**

Gornall wrote:I disagree that Nemesor doesn't offer much to Lychguard. His 2+/3++ and Res orb can help their survivability quite a bit. However, his lack of Phaeron makes him less suited for Warrior/Deathmark blobs IMO.

I agree that Nemesor and Lychguard are not top choices, but I am hoping that is due to upcoming changes in 6th and not Matt Ward.

I do like the idea of going whole hog with two units of Lychguard but wonder if their inefficency would weigh the whole list down too much. Dunno.

Wait, what? Lychguard not top choices? The only bad thing about lychguard is that they're slow moving but that's easily mitigated by veils, monoliths and the scythe (when it comes out). But enough about that, what is bad about a 3+/4++/5+++(or 4+++ with orb) unit with all power weapons and that could be augmented by nemesor? Even on their own, the lychguard are our second best melee unit. Heck, in the last game I used them in they killed like 7 guys with their own meltas and then proceeded to stomp through squads, not to mention out of all the firepower put into them by the end of the game only 2 failed to come back.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

skoffs wrote:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Scythe seems to do the trick nicely. Blind the enemy and turbo-boost it up one of the sides and it should survive to deliver its payload where it needs to go.
but... I thought a Scythe that moves more than 12 inches in the movement phase can't have it's occupants disembark?

They can in the next turn though, but you're still suffering a round of shooting and getting into assault a round later than if you had just veiled. But, that is the payoff. Veil in for one round sooner of assault but possibility of mishap or fly in with almost no risk to the squad and get into assault a round later.

**Randall Turner**

Kevin949 wrote: what is bad about a 3+/4++/5+++(or 4+++ with orb) unit with all power weapons and that could be augmented by nemesor? Even on their own, the lychguard are our second best melee unit.

Pretty much just price, from my limited experience. Taking them instead of Wriaths does free up a FA slot, though, and if you're running a strong Spyder component it's handy to use that slot for another small Scarab "starter" unit.

I need to play them more to get a feel, sorry, no help.

**Kevin949**

Randall Turner wrote:
Kevin949 wrote: what is bad about a 3+/4++/5+++(or 4+++ with orb) unit with all power weapons and that could be augmented by nemesor? Even on their own, the lychguard are our second best melee unit.
Pretty much just price, from my limited experience. Taking them instead of Wriaths does free up a FA slot, though, and if you're running a strong Spyder component it's handy to use that slot for another small Scarab "starter" unit.

I need to play them more to get a feel, sorry, no help.

Ya, they're pretty pricey but so are terminators and I would easily say that lychguard are on par with them. I don't know, in all the games I've fielded them in they have always been one of the surviving units and pretty much always above 50% if not full by the end of the game. I'm not going to comment on the "make back their points" bit because I don't specifically believe in that mindset, mainly because if the opponent is throwing their heavy weapons at the lychguard then that is less going at my weaker squads or vehicles. So even though they may not destroy 400+ points of enemies, they will easily save 400+ points of my army.

**Nightbringer's Chosen**

skoffs wrote:
Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:Scythe seems to do the trick nicely. Blind the enemy and turbo-boost it up one of the sides and it should survive to deliver its payload where it needs to go.
but... I thought a Scythe that moves more than 12 inches in the movement phase can't have it's occupants disembark?

Correct. But between the flat-out cover save and Night Fighting, it tends to be safe enough zooming up and disembarking next turn if you don't just fly it right into the middle of your opponent's board.

**Gornall**

I was wondering if Lychguard could be a hammer to the Wraiths chasing things down and locking them down as an anvil. But that is still a lot of points for CC units, though.

**iGuy91**

I tend to think of them as a counter-assault unit, whereas wraiths are more offensively-minded.

Granted, zapping them around the board and having krak missiles flying back into the squad that shot them, killing them, and then assaulting another the next turn, is still pretty offensive.

They're bodyguards, they're meant to soak up punishment for the rest of your army, and they, in my experience, usually do, unless your dice just absolutely hate you.

They also make anything without an invuln save, or that rely on FNP absolutely cry blood "BA honor guard, death company, plague marines, warriors, Bezerkers, Assault marines, Raptors, Tac marines, Mephiston....ect)

**Gornall**

I like the idea of using them as a counter assault unit, but I am not sure of a good way to force an opponent to get within charge range of the Lychguard. Ideally I think I would want them to have to choose between getting within range of the Lychguard or getting hammered by shooting.

**MarkCron**

When I deploy Lychguard it is either with Obyron, or a Lord with Warscythe and Despairtek with Veil. Either way I just drop them into the opponent backfield, normally early in the game so there is lots around to attack. Generally the opponent comes to me.

Alternatively, if you wanted a true counter assault, walk them up the table behind a juicy warrior/immortal blob (particularly if the blob has a character in it)?

**Gornall**

I've been talking with some people and they seem to think that only 5 Lychguard in a unit is not enough. Because of the I2, by the time a few of the five Lychguard take casualities, they won't be able to inflict enough damage to swing combat res and might lose/get swept. Because they are so slow and have zero shooting ability, I hate to invest too many more points to bring them up to 7-10 bodies. Any thoughts?

**CKO**

You tell those people that 5 is enough because t 5 makes them harder to wound..

**MarkCron**

Gornall, i agree that 5 may be on the low side but like you I don't want to invest too many points into the unit. Having said that, even with 5 I don't get swept often, the LD10 helps a lot.

I view them as a distraction unit (which is why they only appear in my lists at higher point levels) and effectively disposable. So, my plan generally has Obyron (in the unit) or zahndrek giving them hit and run. I drop them in, assault something, move on, being careful not to pick on too many power weapons. However, there is nearly always a barge cracking open mech to give them something to do.

So, I guess the answer to your question is related to how long you want them to live and what part they are going to play.

Hth

**Halfpast_Yellow**

Best way I've been able to slot them into a list is with Nemesor Z in a Nightscythe. The Scythe can move up to 36", and Nems can give it 3+ cover optionally. Next turn disembark and kill, option of Furious charge for str 6 or 8/I3.

Support them with Obyron veiling a shooty unit (10 gauss immortals) next to the boosted scythe for no scatter, and a monolith for contingency.

**WhiteWolf01**

Doesn't seem like there is too much love for scythes out there. Though at what it costs for a 4+ invul it is a steal. That said I think the scythes are good with furious charge for doubling out toughness 4 individuals. Was able to take on an entire harlequin squad and eldrad with a unit of 8 along with Obyron and Nems. Things were going well until the Avatar of Khaine wanted in

That's when I would have killed for a 4+ invul. I guess that is what Obyron is there for though to provide the scythe when you need it.

**Halfpast_Yellow**

I built mine with warscythes because I like the model; as above I run with Zandrekh. Ironically they shine the most vs Necrons, striking before spyders and wraiths or simultaneously with coils and IDing them to get around would allocation. Str 7 helps vs T5/T6 as well.
Also handy vs the Dreaddies and Nobs I game against. Generally anything they don't want to fight, tesla is the answer to.

**Exalted Pariah**

Tesla is always the answer.

**Halfpast_Yellow**

Exalted Pariah wrote:Tesla is always the answer.

Quite!

Here is an example list of how I play em.

Nemesor Zandrekh
Varguard Obyron

7 Lychguard, Warscythes.
-Night Scythe.

10 Immortals, Gauss.

5 Immortals, Tesla
-Night Scythe

5 Immortals, Tesla
-Night Scythe

5 Immortals, Tesla
-Night Scythe

Doom Scythe
Doom Scythe
Monolith

Not hard to tweak for Shields and/or the Solar Pulse crutch if you want one.

**schadenfreude**

Forget about Zandreka's shooting, it's only 25 points of generic cryptek shooting that's being missed out on if he goes inside lychguard. Things gained in return=Assault units will have 2nd thoughts about going after Zandrekh. BS standard wounds like bolters and autocannons can go on Zandreka's 2+ before it goes on lychguard. Also Zandrekh has a res orb to give to the lychguard squad. Forget about Zandrekh's shooting, just keep him in the lychguard where he is safe.

As far as his uses...
Counter assault is good on lychguard and spyders.
FC is good on lychguard and scarabs.
Stripping night fighting + solar pulse is good.
Stripping FC and counter assault are both good

**skoffs**

ARGH, I want to run three units of them in Night Scythes... so expensive, though!

... however, if the rumored rules changes pan out (fliers, deep strike, etc.), I may have to reconsider.