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I was just wondering how many minority (Black, Asian, Arab, Chinese etc. etc.) people play wargames?

I live in Kuwait, and I know of a few Arabs, but before that, I can't think of any time I've even seen anyone but a white person in a shop or club or on here.

Why is that?

Bongo_clive wrote:I was just wondering how many minority (Black, Asian, Arab, Chinese etc. etc.) people play wargames?

I live in Kuwait, and I know of a few Arabs, but before that, I can't think of any time I've even seen anyone but a white person in a shop or club or on here.

Why is that?

America, the UK, and central Europe are games workshops primary markets and those areas are predominantly white. The vast majority of posters on this website will be from those locations.

I know a lot of Asian gamers.

Most of them come a magic background and dabble into minis games later.

there are 2 African American gamers in my group.

I've seen a polls from various forums regarding race


usually it is 90 -98 percent white.

Why? don't really know.

But why, why, why??

Go to the south. There are gak ton of minority players (mostly card game) at our lgs

Facts:

1) Wargaming is an expensive hobby
2) Statistically speaking, the average visible minority in Canada & the USA are on a lower economic standing than the average 'white' person.
3) minorities are called such for a reason.

Put all three of those together, and you start to answer the question.

However, conversely, in Vancouver, Canada, people of Asian decent comprise something like 25% of the population, and I would say are adequately represented at the FLGS.

Well, I'm not white and I'm into warhammer (or used to be) Does that answer the original poster's question?
I don't bother about being a minority - it's an exclusive club and you've got to keep out the trash

We have a decently sized wargaming scene here, mostly locals.

I'm Jewish, that's a minority!

Never really seen another Jewish 40k Gamer around.

I just don't think that the games have initial popularity in certain cultural groups, without the initial startup (the last half century at least in middle class white teens for example), then it's difficult to it to gain any ground, especially given the lack of advertising and perception of fringe playerbase.

I have met several players with Far Eastern and Indian subcontinental heritage, very few with African heritage. That said, I think it's no more than a lack of exposure that prevents this.
I do remember a bunch of black kids coming into my FLGS back in the UK, they were very nice, well behaved and got into the games quickly (because, I think, a group of them all got into it rather than one coming in on his own), I would have happily played against any one of them instead of half the privileged upper middle class white brats we were sometimes treated to.

Now, that said, I think that GW (and the other companies as well) don't do enough to change that either. Why are there no black or asian space marines? Imperial Guard Regiments? It's fairly crazy and annoying. Especially the retcon job on the Salamanders.

Why would you, as a black kid, want to play a game set in a future where you apparently don't exist?

I consider myself one. *shrug*

YMMV I suppose.

I don't think I've ever seen a black guy or gal playing 40k, but I have seen a few playing card games at LGSes. I've seen a few Asian 40k players and several Hispanics, but in San Antonio at least it is mainly played by white males.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Now, that said, I think that GW (and the other companies as well) don't do enough to change that either. Why are there no black or asian space marines? Imperial Guard Regiments? It's fairly crazy and annoying.

Just a nitpick...
There are black and Asian Imperial Guard regiments.The Vitrian Dragoons from the early Gaunt's Ghosts novels are described as having a black complexion, off the top of my head. There's also a number of Vervunhivers within the Ghosts who have a darker complexion, and they tended to be from an archipelago to the south of Vervunhive.
For some Marine Chapters however, it just wouldn't matter what color you were when you joined. Some Chapters(notably: the Salamanders and Raven Guard) have gene-seed which produces chemical changes within the body altering the pigmentation of the Marine.

In my own opinion the biggest problem simply is that we have the examples existing in the novels, rather than on the tabletop. But when it comes down to it--how do you really represent someone as being of Asian or African descent? How do you sculpt that for the features on an individual trooper without playing into something that might be potentially offensive?

Look at the model for Kor'sarro Khan and you'll see what I mean.

Especially the retcon job on the Salamanders.

Oh come on. The retcon job on the Salamanders is better than having them essentially being marines in blackface. They would start out white, ended up black and had glowing red eyes.

Because black people are evil people with glowy red eyes and demonic black skin.

Let's face it, GW's reasonings might seem sound, but they're still highly questionable to insiders and arguably racist to outsiders.

Kanluwen wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Now, that said, I think that GW (and the other companies as well) don't do enough to change that either. Why are there no black or asian space marines? Imperial Guard Regiments? It's fairly crazy and annoying.

Just a nitpick...
There are black and Asian Imperial Guard regiments.The Vitrian Dragoons from the early Gaunt's Ghosts novels are described as having a black complexion, off the top of my head. There's also a number of Vervunhivers within the Ghosts who have a darker complexion, and they tended to be from an archipelago to the south of Vervunhive.
For some Marine Chapters however, it just wouldn't matter what color you were when you joined. Some Chapters(notably: the Salamanders and Raven Guard) have gene-seed which produces chemical changes within the body altering the pigmentation of the Marine.

In my own opinion the biggest problem simply is that we have the examples existing in the novels, rather than on the tabletop. But when it comes down to it--how do you really represent someone as being of Asian or African descent? How do you sculpt that for the features on an individual trooper without playing into something that might be potentially offensive?

You'd paint them that colour?

Kanluwen wrote:

Especially the retcon job on the Salamanders.

Oh come on. The retcon job on the Salamanders is better than having them essentially being marines in blackface. They would start out white, ended up black and had glowing red eyes.

I'm talking about the retcon that saw them moved from being Black, as in of African heritage, to being drow. They were black people, drawn from a black population before. Now they are all glowy eyed n such. It's daft and a missed opportunity on GW's part, they should have just been Black.

Chowderhead wrote:I'm Jewish, that's a minority!

Never really seen another Jewish 40k Gamer around.

Yeah but you're a really bad jew...

purplefood wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I'm Jewish, that's a minority!

Never really seen another Jewish 40k Gamer around.

Yeah but you're a really bad jew...

Your point?

My mom is Jewish, so I'm Jewish. Simple as that.

Chowderhead wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I'm Jewish, that's a minority!

Never really seen another Jewish 40k Gamer around.

Yeah but you're a really bad jew...

Your point?

My mom is Jewish, so I'm Jewish. Simple as that.

I remain unconvinced

I remain unconvinced that you are a conehead.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Now, that said, I think that GW (and the other companies as well) don't do enough to change that either. Why are there no black or asian space marines? Imperial Guard Regiments? It's fairly crazy and annoying.

Just a nitpick...
There are black and Asian Imperial Guard regiments.The Vitrian Dragoons from the early Gaunt's Ghosts novels are described as having a black complexion, off the top of my head. There's also a number of Vervunhivers within the Ghosts who have a darker complexion, and they tended to be from an archipelago to the south of Vervunhive.
For some Marine Chapters however, it just wouldn't matter what color you were when you joined. Some Chapters(notably: the Salamanders and Raven Guard) have gene-seed which produces chemical changes within the body altering the pigmentation of the Marine.

In my own opinion the biggest problem simply is that we have the examples existing in the novels, rather than on the tabletop. But when it comes down to it--how do you really represent someone as being of Asian or African descent? How do you sculpt that for the features on an individual trooper without playing into something that might be potentially offensive?

You'd paint them that colour?

That's not sculpting. The point was that when GW has gone into doing racial "themes" for armies--it hasn't ended well. Look at the White Scars models we have. We obviously can't tell they're Asian at a glance, so they add Fu Manchus and topknots!

(That last bit was sarcasm. When you look at the detail on the model's face you can tell, and of course the White Scars colors are a dead giveaway but they take the opinion that they need "something" making it 'more identifiable at a distance'.)

Kanluwen wrote:

Especially the retcon job on the Salamanders.

Oh come on. The retcon job on the Salamanders is better than having them essentially being marines in blackface. They would start out white, ended up black and had glowing red eyes.

I'm talking about the retcon that saw them moved from being Black, as in of African heritage, to being drow. They were black people, drawn from a black population before. Now they are all glowy eyed n such. It's daft and a missed opportunity on GW's part, they should have just been Black.

They were not drawn from a black population before actually. Nocturne and Prometheus have a primarily white population--it's why they actually made a note that it was a strange feature that the radiation on Nocturne/Prometheus interacted with the gene-seed to turn those recruited black.

It was certainly something which led to a "miss" on GW's part, as nobody thought to read the descriptions they gave and compare to the 'Eavy Metal painters, who interpreted it as meaning they were of African descent.

With that out of the way:
It doesn't matter if you're white, black, green, yellow, or red--if you can make it into the Astartes, they're not going to turn you away. Paint the flesh on your guys whatever damn color you want.

Unless they're Raven Guard or Salamanders, at least. Those are the only two Chapters/Legions which actually have an exact flesh tone mentioned.

At my game club most 40k players are white, i would say 70-90%
I see a few minorities playing there, but its mostly card or RPGs
I could give reasons for why it is this way, but it have been mentioned before.

Kanluwen wrote:
That's not sculpting. The point was that when GW has gone into doing racial "themes" for armies--it hasn't ended well. Look at the White Scars models we have. We obviously can't tell they're Asian at a glance, so they add Fu Manchus and topknots!

(That last bit was sarcasm. When you look at the detail on the model's face you can tell, and of course the White Scars colors are a dead giveaway but they take the opinion that they need "something" making it 'more identifiable at a distance'.)

Either that or they are sculpted and themed after the Mongol Horde...

Kanluwen wrote:
They were not drawn from a black population before actually. Nocturne and Prometheus have a primarily white population--it's why they actually made a note that it was a strange feature that the radiation on Nocturne/Prometheus interacted with the gene-seed to turn those recruited black.

It was certainly something which led to a "miss" on GW's part, as nobody thought to read the descriptions they gave and compare to the 'Eavy Metal painters, who interpreted it as meaning they were of African descent.

Yes they were, actually.
That bit of trivia never surfaced until the retcon and 5th ed. They have been black/African for at least 10 years prior to that. The marines were black because they came from a black population, the rest was alteration and add on.

Chowderhead wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I'm Jewish, that's a minority!

Never really seen another Jewish 40k Gamer around.

Yeah but you're a really bad jew...

Your point?

My mom is Jewish, so I'm Jewish. Simple as that.

Jewish is a religious identification, not a race. The diaspora made any considerations of a racial homogeneity between Jewish populations kinda silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Now, that said, I think that GW (and the other companies as well) don't do enough to change that either. Why are there no black or asian space marines? Imperial Guard Regiments? It's fairly crazy and annoying.

Just a nitpick...
There are black and Asian Imperial Guard regiments.The Vitrian Dragoons from the early Gaunt's Ghosts novels are described as having a black complexion, off the top of my head. There's also a number of Vervunhivers within the Ghosts who have a darker complexion, and they tended to be from an archipelago to the south of Vervunhive.
For some Marine Chapters however, it just wouldn't matter what color you were when you joined. Some Chapters(notably: the Salamanders and Raven Guard) have gene-seed which produces chemical changes within the body altering the pigmentation of the Marine.

In my own opinion the biggest problem simply is that we have the examples existing in the novels, rather than on the tabletop. But when it comes down to it--how do you really represent someone as being of Asian or African descent? How do you sculpt that for the features on an individual trooper without playing into something that might be potentially offensive?

You'd paint them that colour?

Kanluwen wrote:

Especially the retcon job on the Salamanders.

Oh come on. The retcon job on the Salamanders is better than having them essentially being marines in blackface. They would start out white, ended up black and had glowing red eyes.

I'm talking about the retcon that saw them moved from being Black, as in of African heritage, to being drow. They were black people, drawn from a black population before. Now they are all glowy eyed n such. It's daft and a missed opportunity on GW's part, they should have just been Black.

I agree, the way GW handles racial diversity in their game is to whitewash the galaxy. It doesn't even make sense, the tallarn are desert white dudes, the valhallans are ice white dudes, the catachans are jungle white dudes, it's just all whitey. Human skin and hair color is an artifact of diet and exposure to light. That changes a lot in space.

Catachans should be brazillian!

[/off topic]

ShumaGorath wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I'm Jewish, that's a minority!

Never really seen another Jewish 40k Gamer around.

Yeah but you're a really bad jew...

Your point?

My mom is Jewish, so I'm Jewish. Simple as that.

Jewish is a religious identification, not a race. The diaspora made any considerations of a racial homogeneity between Jewish populations kinda silly.

It never stated ethnic minorities.

Melissia is a minority because she's female. I'm a Jewish Gamer, and that puts me in a minority in the category of Religions of Gamers.

Melissia wrote:Catachans should be brazillian!

[/off topic]

Technically Brazilians are very heavily of European descent and the time frame of South America being colonized by Europeans is much shorter than the time frame of Catachan being colonized by humans. They should probably look full on native to the climate by this point. Being a low tech deathworld it's not going to have much immigration of foreign racial traits.

Okay, they should look aboriginal Brazilian.

Chowderhead wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I'm Jewish, that's a minority!

Never really seen another Jewish 40k Gamer around.

Yeah but you're a really bad jew...

Your point?

My mom is Jewish, so I'm Jewish. Simple as that.

Jewish is a religious identification, not a race. The diaspora made any considerations of a racial homogeneity between Jewish populations kinda silly.

It never stated ethnic minorities.

Melissia is a minority because she's female. I'm a Jewish Gamer, and that puts me in a minority in the category of Religions of Gamers.

Technically Melissa is in the majority, there are statistically more women than men and the point of the topic was clearly racial minorities.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:Okay, they should look aboriginal Brazilian.

Yes. But the sunglasses stay.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I'm Jewish, that's a minority!

Never really seen another Jewish 40k Gamer around.

Yeah but you're a really bad jew...

Your point?

My mom is Jewish, so I'm Jewish. Simple as that.

Jewish is a religious identification, not a race. The diaspora made any considerations of a racial homogeneity between Jewish populations kinda silly.

It never stated ethnic minorities.

Melissia is a minority because she's female. I'm a Jewish Gamer, and that puts me in a minority in the category of Religions of Gamers.

Technically Melissa is in the majority, there are statistically more women than men and the point of the topic was clearly racial minorities.

She's in the minority of women who play a Tabletop Wargame.

And who cares if the OP lists only racial minorities as examples? A minority is a minority,

Melissia wrote:Okay, they should look aboriginal Brazilian.

Uh, why?
There are rainforests in Africa and Asia too, you know.
Given the level of medical technology available it'd be doubtful whether their skin colour would change at all in such a climate - if the variables that determine survival are things like how quick you can pull a trigger, how well you can make a shelter, skin colour won't really come into it.