Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

I am building up a Planetary Defence Force of Vostroyans and thought it would be cool to have a squad or two dedicated to Battle Zone Mortalis with the idea of them being stationed in a space station/dock in orbit.

Now in most of the novels it says that the Navy security dudes use a form of shotgun to stop holes being punched into equipment and life support systems etc. However it then dawned on me that Space Marines often fight on ship and don't seem to give a crap about their bolters shooting off everywhere. Do they use a different type of ammo for boarding/repelling boarders?

Or is the idea of shotguns in space old news now?

Power and terminator equipment is voidsealed. So they don't have to care about damage.

Indeed. Most regions the marines may be going into are probably lacking suitable atmosphere anyway.

The close confines of a spaceship give the SMs the chance to do what they like doing best - charging at the enemy, screaming.

I don't imagine they bother doing too much actual shooting...

Good point guys I guess they don't give a monkeys about other peoples ships and probably have something in place if they are boarded.

Also bolters mass reactive.
I suppose it could be assumed that the shells detonate within a traget or before any significant penetration of the hull can take place.

Eetion wrote:Also bolters mass reactive.
I suppose it could be assumed that the shells detonate within a traget or before any significant penetration of the hull can take place.

Nope, the explosion of the round itself may be enough to puncture a ship's hull.

As said before, a Space marine's suit is voidproof, so he doesn't really care if the atmosphere suddenly goes rushing out of the ship.

To the OP, check the Gaunt's Ghosts books - I remember Abnett specifically describing the shotgun's round as being filled with metal shavings and other pieces of shrapnel, so it would shred people and not the ship's hull.

I'm sure a space marines suit is void proof. But the chapter serfs and scouts may be less entusiastic about decompression if they are boarded.

Mass reactive rounds, I'd put money on their being a void version of the bolt shell. Minimising the risk of decompression.

Because the Space Marines just gotta carry their signature bolter (though there are shotgun-style rounds for some of them, I believe) whereas Naval Security knows that, when fighting in a metal hallway, the ability to shoot clouds of bullets that can bounce off the floor, walls and ceilings and make a mockery of someone's shield, cover or cranium is of superior tactical advantage.

Flamers offer similar advantages. Fill the hallway with fire, and no one wants to go through it. The only real problem it has is O2 consumption.

The space marine hit things a lot in tight spaces or use a flamer, also space marines firing bolt down a narrow crridor is hard to miss so if they shoot they hit what they want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The space marine hit things a lot in tight spaces or use a flamer, also space marines firing bolt down a narrow crridor is hard to miss so if they shoot they hit what they want.

infinite_array wrote:

Eetion wrote:Also bolters mass reactive.
I suppose it could be assumed that the shells detonate within a traget or before any significant penetration of the hull can take place.

Nope, the explosion of the round itself may be enough to puncture a ship's hull.

As said before, a Space marine's suit is voidproof, so he doesn't really care if the atmosphere suddenly goes rushing out of the ship.

To the OP, check the Gaunt's Ghosts books - I remember Abnett specifically describing the shotgun's round as being filled with metal shavings and other pieces of shrapnel, so it would shred people and not the ship's hull.

If your interstellar ship is so thinskinned that a single boltround could puncture it's hull then you better never get hit by a micrometeorite let alone a macro cannon shell.

Daston wrote:Hey guys,

I am building up a Planetary Defence Force of Vostroyans and thought it would be cool to have a squad or two dedicated to Battle Zone Mortalis with the idea of them being stationed in a space station/dock in orbit.

Now in most of the novels it says that the Navy security dudes use a form of shotgun to stop holes being punched into equipment and life support systems etc. However it then dawned on me that Space Marines often fight on ship and don't seem to give a crap about their bolters shooting off everywhere. Do they use a different type of ammo for boarding/repelling boarders?

Or is the idea of shotguns in space old news now?

As a note PDF forces would not garrison Navy assets, due to the seperation of power the Navy would use their own forces.

Eetion wrote:I'm sure a space marines suit is void proof. But the chapter serfs and scouts may be less entusiastic about decompression if they are boarded.

Mass reactive rounds, I'd put money on their being a void version of the bolt shell. Minimising the risk of decompression.

Much like modern warships, it is very likely that military space craft will have multiple lock off systems that would maintain ship wide pressure if an area suffers decompression.

It could be assumed that for prepared defenders to have equipment ready in case of breaches.

Hmm... Surely the huge thick slabs of armour that are present on Imperial military vessels to prevent enemy weapons from penetrating would do just as well against small arms from inside the ship...

The hull? Sure.

The twenty-meter tall stained glass windows? Hmm, probably not.

Flinty wrote:Hmm... Surely the huge thick slabs of armour that are present on Imperial military vessels to prevent enemy weapons from penetrating would do just as well against small arms from inside the ship...

Sure, but Traitor Astartes boarding parties tend to go for the "critical" parts of a ship--and they have no qualms with using heavy explosive/penetrative weapons like Meltaguns.

When the Naval Security teams have to respond to those threats--they're pretty much boned, as they'll have to use weapons heavy enough to crack open and kill the powered armour which will probably do damage to the hull.

BluntmanDC wrote:

Daston wrote:Hey guys,

I am building up a Planetary Defence Force of Vostroyans and thought it would be cool to have a squad or two dedicated to Battle Zone Mortalis with the idea of them being stationed in a space station/dock in orbit.

Now in most of the novels it says that the Navy security dudes use a form of shotgun to stop holes being punched into equipment and life support systems etc. However it then dawned on me that Space Marines often fight on ship and don't seem to give a crap about their bolters shooting off everywhere. Do they use a different type of ammo for boarding/repelling boarders?

Or is the idea of shotguns in space old news now?

As a note PDF forces would not garrison Navy assets, due to the seperation of power the Navy would use their own forces.

I have already thought of this, the guys will be conversions from cadian's and catachan parts armed with shotguns with petty officers instead of sergeants now just need to find some 28mm sabres lol

Kanluwen wrote:

Flinty wrote:Hmm... Surely the huge thick slabs of armour that are present on Imperial military vessels to prevent enemy weapons from penetrating would do just as well against small arms from inside the ship...

Sure, but Traitor Astartes boarding parties tend to go for the "critical" parts of a ship--and they have no qualms with using heavy explosive/penetrative weapons like Meltaguns.

When the Naval Security teams have to respond to those threats--they're pretty much boned, as they'll have to use weapons heavy enough to crack open and kill the powered armour which will probably do damage to the hull.

Again, what small arms round would be powerful enough to puncture a hull designed for ship-to-ship combat?

Jakka wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Flinty wrote:Hmm... Surely the huge thick slabs of armour that are present on Imperial military vessels to prevent enemy weapons from penetrating would do just as well against small arms from inside the ship...

Sure, but Traitor Astartes boarding parties tend to go for the "critical" parts of a ship--and they have no qualms with using heavy explosive/penetrative weapons like Meltaguns.

When the Naval Security teams have to respond to those threats--they're pretty much boned, as they'll have to use weapons heavy enough to crack open and kill the powered armour which will probably do damage to the hull.

Again, what small arms round would be powerful enough to puncture a hull designed for ship-to-ship combat?

Meltaguns.
Plasmaguns.
Meltabombs.

To kill a rampaging Astartes inside of a ship, you're going to have to bust out explosive weapons.
Breaking out explosive weapons in the middle of a space battle, when other people are shooting at you and causing structural damage and your crew are not wearing armored voidsuits you are asking for an issue.

Kanluwen wrote:

Jakka wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Flinty wrote:Hmm... Surely the huge thick slabs of armour that are present on Imperial military vessels to prevent enemy weapons from penetrating would do just as well against small arms from inside the ship...

Sure, but Traitor Astartes boarding parties tend to go for the "critical" parts of a ship--and they have no qualms with using heavy explosive/penetrative weapons like Meltaguns.

When the Naval Security teams have to respond to those threats--they're pretty much boned, as they'll have to use weapons heavy enough to crack open and kill the powered armour which will probably do damage to the hull.

Again, what small arms round would be powerful enough to puncture a hull designed for ship-to-ship combat?

Meltaguns.
Plasmaguns.
Meltabombs.

To kill a rampaging Astartes inside of a ship, you're going to have to bust out explosive weapons.
Breaking out explosive weapons in the middle of a space battle, when other people are shooting at you and causing structural damage and your crew are not wearing armored voidsuits you are asking for an issue.

If your ship's armour is so terrible that even handheld weapons can penetrate it, then you better use your ship to haul goods.
Seriously, we are speaking about warships that are designed to withstand city shattering ( according to some descriptions even continent shattering ) ordnance. A simple meltagun shouldn't
have a realistical chance to pierce that kind of armour.

I doubt its a matter of puncturing the hull - How often are they going to be fighting at the edge of the ship, anyway, regardless of whether the guns would actually be able to penetrate the hull? Its more likely that they use shotguns to prevent damage to vital systems, such as life support, which is much more delicate than the actual hull. Which is more believable, that lasguns can puncture the hull of the ship, or that they are worried about lasguns damaging a life support pipe, or control panel or what not?

Marines dont give a damn cause theyre in space suits lol

Daston wrote:
I have already thought of this, the guys will be conversions from cadian's and catachan parts armed with shotguns with petty officers instead of sergeants now just need to find some 28mm sabres lol

I think the baneblade set had a pretty good sabre, though it's a bit of an expense for one piece
You might try asking around at your FLGS or the magical place known as ebay.

Also, meltaguns burning holes in the hull becomes an issue in small ships with thin hulls where the outside of the hull has already been munched up by things coming from outside. Even then though, it is pretty hard to burst the hull by accident. Remember, missile and lascannon turrets aren't exactly unheard of inside ships.
But yes, they would be far more worried about taking out all of the pipes and things that are sitting outside of the walls so that people can accidentally shoot them.

Well, it ll depends on the purpose of the space dock in question. Is it there mainly for mercantile trading and bartering, where they are stationed as more of a security detail? Or is it a planetary defense station? Makes a huge difference in the amount of armor and armament.

From the Dark Heresy books in the naval equipment page it notes that naval personnel do use shotguns, not because of causing a breach in the hull (as they wear a front only suit of carapace armour, which includes a void suit to protect them from vacuum) but to avoid damaging the vulnerable equipment inside the ship, for example computers, piping etc. And considering their heavy front armour, heavy shields and close fighting quarters, shotguns are more than ideal.