Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

my list
HQ
Overlord Warscythe,MSSand Res orb
Troops
5 warriors
Harbinger of Transmogrification
Ghost ark

8 warriors
Harbinger of destruction ,solar pulse

9 warriors
Harbinger of Transmogrification
Ghost ark

10 Immortals
Harbinger of Despair with VOD
Elite
C'tan shard Writhing world scape and moulder of worlds
Fast attack
6 Canoptek Wraiths 3 with whip coils 1 with Particle caster

Nids


Tyrant with 1 guard
6 hive guard (with that no LOS git of a weapon )
large termagant brood
Large hormaguant brood
trygon and trevigon
10 steelers
(this is the basics of his list i forget the exaxt numbers ,now he spawns lots termangants or whatever they are called .

I have tried Orikan but he does nothing and with no Res orb the Immortals die fast ,i have thought of taking Deathmarks instead of Immortals but not sure i would have enough troops for objective games ,so guys any suggestions or ideas on how to atleast compete would be greats so far 5 games 4 losses and 1 draw and the draw was pure luck normaly he wipes me out to a man and i cant do enough damage to hurt him with his high T and FNP on the Termagants

Well, it's bad to list-tailor and I don't normally run anything like this, but if you're getting stomped...

Deathmarks work pretty well against MC's, and Tesla Destrructors are just exactly the tool for the job. Annihilation Barges would be my first change - affordable and tough. You've an awful lot of troops, do you really need them all?

Buy a Monolith. Your friend probably won't beat you ever again.

I have to second the Tesla destructor suggestion. Str 7 will ID the Termagants, so no FNP. Plus it's arc with an army that will hopefully have lots of units around.
If you really, really hate FNP, you could also go with a Doomsday Ark. The 72 in range alone makes it a wonderful inclusion against an army that has to get to you. A few good shots could easily take out the hive guards, leaving your other armor with much more room to breath.
Place it center-ish on the back end of the map (to avoid flanking gene-stealers), and the only thing that could quickly threaten it is a deep striking Trygon. Volume of fire from flayer broadsides and nearby warrior squads should be able to do some damage as he should be in RF range. If he's straight assaulting with it...well...best of luck with that
How are your using your ghost arks? I don't have any in my army, but am curious how they are performing for you.

Ghost Arks i love when i don't play nids they are a pain for whoever i play ?

I will say this, TMC absolutely HATE Destroyers, the ap3 absolutely wrecks them if they don't have fnp (even with it they still go down pretty fast.) And the 12" move means you can usually just shoot and scoot with them and stay out of combat.

I've played against Tyranids quite often with the new necrons and you really don't have to alter your game plan if you are bringing an effective take all comers list that you are proficient with.

Nids still don't like Eldrich Lances, Mind Shackle Scarabs, CCB, or Tesla Destructiors. I would focus on building a list with a clear concise game plan then apply those tactics to your opponent's Tyranids.

Defiler37 wrote:I will say this, TMC absolutely HATE Destroyers, the ap3 absolutely wrecks them if they don't have fnp (even with it they still go down pretty fast.) And the 12" move means you can usually just shoot and scoot with them and stay out of combat.

A group of 5 destroyers averages 2.1 wounds per turn on a TMC without Fnp which any good Tyranid general will be handing out like candy on the things you want to shoot so you are only looking at 1 wound per shooting phase with Fnp. There are much better places to spend 200 points as far a fire output goes. As good as a 12" move is it will not keep them safe if the tyranid player is able to reach midfield. Many things in the Tryanid codex have guaranteed 18" assault ranges and you only have so much table to shoot and scoot in. I only say this because I tested destroyers against my buddies Nids a lot hoping to find a use for them sadly there are simply better options in the fire power department.

azazel the cat wrote:Buy a Monolith. Your friend probably won't beat you ever again.

This is also not sound advice against Tyranids, you are looking for throughput so you can break there numbers as they reach their critical mass. After breaking the first wave of bugs and keeping your army intact it is really just cleanup from there. That said you need to maximize your firepower to points spent ratio and a monolith is not effective in this regard. TMCs can rip apart AV 14 gone are the days of the immortal monolith and they really have been relegated to a supportish unit without a clear focus that only works in very specific lists. You pay a premium for all the little tricks and gimmicks when what you need is offence. This again is coming from experience playing against Tyranids. A Tyrgon looks at the monolith as a free 6" charge move as it can easily pop is in 1 assault phase.

Guess i have some abnormal luck then, my destroyers usually kill a trygon in 2 turns, sometimes one.

snakel wrote:Ghost Arks i love when i don't play nids they are a pain for whoever i play ?

You know, the knock on Night Scythes is that they're a bit vulnerable to ranged AT. Against a Tyranid army, though, I'd think they'd be fine. Tesla destructor, hit-and-run (well, run-and-hit),

I'll defer to aspal8me on this one, again - they're not in my list. (though i'd make the observation that I've a close friend with a 'nid army that gives me fits, too.)

Sounds like a double-Stalker twin-linked-shooter-mania list might work out pretty well against that.

alspal8me wrote:

azazel the cat wrote:Buy a Monolith. Your friend probably won't beat you ever again.

This is also not sound advice against Tyranids, you are looking for throughput so you can break there numbers as they reach their critical mass. After breaking the first wave of bugs and keeping your army intact it is really just cleanup from there. That said you need to maximize your firepower to points spent ratio and a monolith is not effective in this regard. TMCs can rip apart AV 14 gone are the days of the immortal monolith and they really have been relegated to a supportish unit without a clear focus that only works in very specific lists. You pay a premium for all the little tricks and gimmicks when what you need is offence. This again is coming from experience playing against Tyranids. A Tyrgon looks at the monolith as a free 6" charge move as it can easily pop is in 1 assault phase.

Such will be true for any vehicle in the codex; however only 1 vehicle has a ton of Gauss shots, a Str 8 AP 3 large blast, and a vacuum door.

And if you take out the MCs, then the entire 'Nid army is generally F'd if that Monolith is still standing.

alspal8me wrote:A Tyrgon looks at the monolith as a free 6" charge move as it can easily pop is in 1 assault phase.

You can't consolidate off of vehicles.

N.I.B. wrote:

alspal8me wrote:A Tyrgon looks at the monolith as a free 6" charge move as it can easily pop is in 1 assault phase.

You can't consolidate off of vehicles.

The 6" assault move isn't the consolidate.

Defiler37 wrote:Guess i have some abnormal luck then, my destroyers usually kill a trygon in 2 turns, sometimes one.

As a tyranid player, I would not say your luck is abnormal.

Mordiggian wrote:

Defiler37 wrote:Guess i have some abnormal luck then, my destroyers usually kill a trygon in 2 turns, sometimes one.

As a tyranid player, I would not say your luck is abnormal.

Agreed my trygon always pops up and dies straight away. It does divert nearly all of the fire power tho so the rest of the army can get up the board a little safer

rigeld2 wrote:

N.I.B. wrote:

alspal8me wrote:A Tyrgon looks at the monolith as a free 6" charge move as it can easily pop is in 1 assault phase.

You can't consolidate off of vehicles.

The 6" assault move isn't the consolidate.

I assumed he meant 'free charge move' = consolidate, otherwise his post makes no sense.

5 destroyers will certainly put more than 2 wounds on a MC in a turn. AP3 will go straight through armour so 5s to wound and auto-damage assuming the MCs don't/shouldn't get a cover save.

Deathmarks with their 2+ to wound can also put the hurt on MCs.

On the mass of troops then as much tesla as you can get in the list.

I am thinking you have target priority issues. You have 3 units that can hang in CC with his MCs and enough fire power to do some serious ranged damage.

As nid player, I would be worried taking that list against necron. If you can generate 18 wounds the list starts to fall apart. And I am assuming he paid for a Trygon Prime upgrade, if not you only have to drop 12 wounds.

Here is my MC kill order:
1: Trevigon, gets rid of FNP, Synapse, and troop creation.
2: Trygon, it is a fleet MC so can run and charge for up to 24" assaults, assuming prime provides synapse
3. Hive Tyrant, It sill be the slower of the to combat MC, and Synapse point.

Once synapse is gone HG l(d7) have to make a LD check to target non-LOS, non-closest enemy and not move in to the nearest area terrain, same for any termigaunts (ld6). Ghost Arc can draw non-sysnapsed Hormagant on a merry chase, as they are affected by Rage USR.

That leaves the only real attack threat as the Stealers. If Wraiths get the charge, they have a good shot at breaking the stealers.

He has a synapse issue that you are not taking advantage of.

ruminator wrote:5 destroyers will certainly put more than 2 wounds on a MC in a turn. AP3 will go straight through armour so 5s to wound and auto-damage assuming the MCs don't/shouldn't get a cover save.

5 Destroyers get 10 shots
of those 10 6.6 hit
of those hits 33% wound which makes 2.178 wounds per turn

This is before Fnp which would make it 1.089 wounds per turn

The psychological value put on the fact that the guns are Ap3 make it seem like a good choice but the Str 5 coupled with average number of shots make them poorly suited to take on T6 units.

Get lots of Tesla connons, destructors, anything tesla in general but also take some bigger guns for the big beasties

How has nobody said Doomsday Arc!?

Sit in a corner with a couple of these (with maybe a stalker or two for twin linked goodness) and just rain death pie plates on the lot of them!!!

Saptilladerky wrote:How has nobody said Doomsday Arc!?

because Annihilation Barges.

Annibarges require you to get up close and personal. Doomsday Arcs fire from down field without worry!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Annibarges require you to get up close and personal. Doomsday Arcs fire from down field without worry!

Saptilladerky wrote:Annibarges require you to get up close and personal. Doomsday Arcs fire from down field without worry!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Annibarges require you to get up close and personal. Doomsday Arcs fire from down field without worry!

Except for things like Outflanking Genestealers, Ymgarls... Which will hit the Stationary Vehicle automatically.

I'd Look at your priority list a bit more.
Granted the tervi is handing out FNP, but thats not a huge issue.

The trygon making a B-line for your army should be the main issue.
Thats a direct threat rather than something that simply bolsters a unit each turn.

1 tervi on its own has a use, but not the most effective one.
Usually 2-3 will be a mainstay and a real threat.




As said though, barges are your friend here.
The sheer volume of fire power for its points makes it a gem in games against nids.

Doomsday arks can be handy (I enjoy running one - want two though) as a S9 AP1 large blast has a good chance to mess up whatever it hits.

Anyway... I think your list is too defensive, you seem extremely focused on slowing your opponent which would be fine if you had something to reach out and hit him. If you want to focus on slowing him down, fine, but in that case I'd recommend two Triarch Stalkers to maximize the torrents of firepower you're trying to drown him in. Hell, this may be one of the few times I'd say Tomb Blades are a worthwhile investment. Throw some Particle Beamers or Tesla Carbines(?) on them for horde killing. Blasts and Tesla are your friends.

Also, Lovely way to take out the troublesome Monstrous Creatures (if your shooting fails you), Equip C'tan with Time's Arrow and attach him to a squad of Wraiths with some whip coils. Assault Monstrous Creature, with the whip coils, he's I1, with Time's Arrow he has to take an initiative test at I1 so, unless he rolls a d6 roll of 1, his monstrous creature is immediately removed from play, no saves allowed. (Wear your troll face when doing this and brace for verbal assault of "That's not legal!" and rest assured, it is legal even if it is a low blow)

I have never run into issues with the little bugs when playing Tyranids whenever I get beat it's because I end up with 1 or 2 Trygons crashing my lines. If I can stop those early in the game all I have to do is cleanup if I don't it's big trouble. The key to beating tyranids is wrecking their heavy hitters.

This is why DE and SW are such bad match ups for Nids, both have effective ways to destroy the MC's the little bugs are not all that scary outside of genestealers and all you have to do there is stay in cover.

You need to buy some good tarpitting units to slow down his tyranid swarms. I notice he is using a swarming list so i say take out his synapse creatures. This will cause his units to run rampant and be easier to kill.