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I know beastmen are considered one of the bottom tier armies, but since my first army was Daemons in 7th I was looking for a more challenging army as the daemons were nearly and auto win especially with the 8th ed up level spells. That said I have been having quite a bit of fun with what is considered one of their worst units.

I have been running a doombull with berserker sword and 6 mino's comes up to about 750 points, I know that is expensive, and probably not as effective as say 100 Gor's (thats the cost), but it is fun, and can get disgusting. I just ended a game with a buddy of mine and my doom bull and his 3 surviving minotaur buddies were at +5 attacks each. The three wide front rank was cranking out an impressive 28 attacks each round of combat. Plus they got their stomp's impacts and the one guys stone throw. Expensive, but fun.

I'm not sure where your getting your information minobuses are vicious bro

Beastmen are not bottom tier by a long shot (See High Elves, Wood Elves, TK and kind of Brets). We have two insanely good builds (Herdstone and Minobus). And while I dislike the bullheadedness (pun intended) of the Bus I am not surprised at the games outcome.

For some reason, I'm kind of surprised that a mino bus works. I feel like frenzy overruns, coupled with bloodgreed could keep the unit out of any useful fight almost indefinitely? That's of course just on paper, but I'd be interested in how that problem is overcome in practice.

Mostly it is the fact that charging the doombull out works great and harpies help you control your overruns and get the charges you need. Beastmen take metric tons of practice to even think about winning games .

But you are right Zeke a skilled foe can run circles around the mino bus

Beastmen are great, and even if we are a lesser army, we can hold our own in a fight.

so what i am doing is called minobus? Where you get permafrenzy and abuse the crap out of bloodgreed? I like to put the ram horn helm on my doombull with a 1+ sv. and a dawnstone. Punishes your opponent for trying to hit him, but if they ignore him they lose 5+ models a turn to him.

Personally I enjoy the beastmen games far more than my demon games as the demon games were pretty easy against almost all armies. Sorry about referring to them as a bottom tier, but most people feel if you aren't playing a complete school of magic type army with nuclear meltdown spells you aren't playing competitively. With demons it was cheap and easy with heralds to get full death school then fly down to an enemy flank and just roll the purple sun down them. Even with an I4 army it was a great tactic, and about 90% of the time the herald lived to do it again next round. Vampires have a similar deal, and lizard men are also sick with their cupped hands, from below crap.

Another build that I played was a Gor heard of I think about 160ish gor's that then had beastlords, wargors, a permafrenzy gorebull, and several shaman. Then you take all the magic items that enchance the squads like black plate, and some other that escape me at the moment. Cast wildform on your one giant squad, and pelt if you get it on your killer character. That one was a ton of fun. You could always get screwed over by some magic like i mention above but against most armies it did well.

I am curious about the stone list, I had considered trying to take as many shamans as possible and using the herdstone but always was distracted by my other models.

Any of you use centigor's? I don't own any because they are citadel only and I am not willing to pony up 60 bucks for 3 or 5 of them however many you get, but they do look interesting.

There is a guy who did a Centigor Army and he did fairly well early in 8th but I think he fell of the planet. Also Check my beastmen lists to see how herdstone is normally built.

I also don't think Herdstone and Minobus are mutually exclusive builds. You can have both in the list.

Johnny Case, I do not know where you get the fcat that TK are bad.

Yeah, they arn't great but they can certaintly perform.

I did not state it as fact it was more of how from my experience the books stack up, hence why HE are also down there.

From my experience the bot tier is about Beastmen and Wood elves.

Bret players usually are skilled enough that they can really show you what that dex can do, but it's still almost in the same tier as Beast and WE

Beasts aren't bottom tier, wood elves, non gifted Brett players and Tk are bottom with beasts and he just above I reckon

TK bot tier what? They are still winning tournaments in much more significant numbers compared to beastmen and WE.

Johnny-Crass wrote:Beastmen are not bottom tier by a long shot (See High Elves, Wood Elves, TK and kind of Brets). We have two insanely good builds (Herdstone and Minobus). And while I dislike the bullheadedness (pun intended) of the Bus I am not surprised at the games outcome.

Pst... Johnny you gotta keep it on the DL

Beastmen are the worst army out there. I mean Primal Fury? Really? Rerolling misses is so last edition, everyone knows rerolling misses is what bottom tier armies do. Especially when you reroll misses after the first round of combat. Also hardly any shooting? You know how much my BS archers kill? They can get like 2-3 kills per turn, eat that. OMG an army that can generate power dice at a very cheap rate and spam miasma to make their S3-4 Gor and S6 bestigor who are rerolling misses hit more, And what's up with their Shaman, a caster that can actually go toe to toe with other heroes and lords? Who needs that? A 55 point large pig that will hold up weak units and crush enemy mages. 30 point raider units that skirmish and redirect and can reroll misses, can shoot bows and ambush. Lets forget 8th made it so combat in big blocks is the way to go, with our cheap 8pt with AHW gors WS4 T4 A2 is crap, and BSBs allowing leadership rerolls which is the basis of our Primal Fury.

Hargus56 wrote:with our cheap 8pt with AHW gors WS4 T4 A2 is crap, and BSBs allowing leadership rerolls which is the basis of our Primal Fury.

And a +1S banner that turns AHW gors into a blender.

Like Hargus said SSSHHH

Hargus you also forgot that terrible cheap as dirt item that gives use power dice whenever based on kills

I'm also quite fond of the teclis killer stone of spite, its also handy against cupped hands

I used to run 3 arcane items in my list. I avoid stone like the plague

Johnny-Crass wrote:Beastmen are not bottom tier by a long shot (See High Elves, Wood Elves, TK and kind of Brets). We have two insanely good builds (Herdstone and Minobus). And while I dislike the bullheadedness (pun intended) of the Bus I am not surprised at the games outcome.

TK won the Throne of Skulls GT last year, in England... I don't know how you get that they are bottom tier.

Need to beat a shooty army? Throw more Gors then shots he can fire.

While I still played Fantasy I had some 80 wins and some 27 loses with Beastmen. So they are no means a low tier army.

They are absolute elite once you get the hang of them, and beside, 80 angry Gors are unpleasent

Sasori wrote:

Johnny-Crass wrote:Beastmen are not bottom tier by a long shot (See High Elves, Wood Elves, TK and kind of Brets). We have two insanely good builds (Herdstone and Minobus). And while I dislike the bullheadedness (pun intended) of the Bus I am not surprised at the games outcome.

TK won the Throne of Skulls GT last year, in England... I don't know how you get that they are bottom tier.

If you read a bit further I do talk about their one-two good lists. But most TK players I play with my Beasts I chalk it up as a win in my head before even the first dice is rolled.

I would agree Johnny. The most amount of combat rez I've ever had was against TK, it was north of 30, horde of AHW Gor with beast banner against a horde of skeletons, flanked by some stalkers and in my rear were 4 swarms rolled incredibly well with primal fury, the TK player was awestruck as he removed all his units due to crumble, and kept saying I've never seen numbers like that.

TK definitly need to be properly managed and buffed to do well.

Lore of Light combined with Nehekara is probably the key. If you can get Rightious Smiting off along with Pha's Protection or Timewarp Skeletons become pretty scary.

Here is the list i have been playing with.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/449689.page