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 MattofWar wrote:
There is one way I now realize I have been very stupid in this thread.

The original article was an hyperbolic attempt at getting attention. I gave the attention.

I'm committed to treating everyone equally. If that's not enough for some people I don't know what to tell you.

If anyone wants more people to be committed to equality, I would caution against the use of comparisons to terrorism and accusations of being complicit with crimes. It just polarizes the issue and gets people like me to argue against you when we really should be on the same side (treating everyone equally).

Don't forget the issues that the creators of a game aren't responsible for the actionstaken by people who choose to play the games the creators made and that one person's anecdotal evidence isn't evidence of a general problem encompassing thousands (millions?) of people across numerous nations and locations. I would not use my pleasant gaming experiences over the last few decades as evidence that everyone who plays table top games or board games is a fantastic person with terrific social skills. It's only evidence that the group I game with gets along with each other and complies with my subjective view of proper social etiquette. I have no idea what goes on with other gaming groups in other parts of the world and wouldn't presume to declare that those people would behave the same way as the people I game with simply because they all like to play similar games.

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Unconscious bias does not equal racist. Sorry but it is the truth.

As I previously wrote: you are not racist, you are just treating people differently because of their skin color! That means there is no problem and we should all be very happy and not change a thing!

Prestor Jon wrote:
You can't use unconscious actions/reactions as an excuse to castigate somebody.

Ahahah, it seems that it is all some people care about in this thread. MEMEME! Don't say anything bad about ME! Don't talk about your problem because it could make ME look bad! It's all about ME!

Being treated unfairly due to some unconscious bias is a completely fair and justified reason to be angry. If that hurts your feeling because you did not meant to treat people unfairly, then… well, two advices. First, stop focusing on how you are a good person, start focusing on how you can become better. Second, stop taking everything personally, all the time.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 MattofWar wrote:
Sorry, but people can actually choose to be fair to others despite their unconscious baggage.

They definitely can try. But the thing about unconscious bias is that, well, you don't notice it. And the more you are angry when people tell you you are being racist, or sexist, the less you are going to listen to them, and the easiest it will be for those unconscious bias to remain unnoticed.
Am I right on that?
Seems to me that you are very, very sensitive about being called racist or sexist (because it hurts your feelings) and that this can't help you to root out those unconscious bias.

The reason I don't like people who are not racist being called racist and people who are not sexist being called sexist is that it harms the actual reduction of racism and sexism by pointing our attention to non-discriminatory acts. It also damages people's ability to actually recognize real acts of discrimination.

The other reason I don't like people who are not racist and sexist being called racist and sexist is because it is insulting and rude them. It's not fair to make false accusations. In fact, it's morally wrong to make false accusations.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Unconscious bias does not equal racist. Sorry but it is the truth.

As I previously wrote: you are not racist, you are just treating people differently because of their skin color! That means there is no problem and we should all be very happy and not change a thing!

Prestor Jon wrote:
You can't use unconscious actions/reactions as an excuse to castigate somebody.

Ahahah, it seems that it is all some people care about in this thread. MEMEME! Don't say anything bad about ME! Don't talk about your problem because it could make ME look bad! It's all about ME!

Being treated unfairly due to some unconscious bias is a completely fair and justified reason to be angry. If that hurts your feeling because you did not meant to treat people unfairly, then… well, two advices. First, stop focusing on how you are a good person, start focusing on how you can become better. Second, stop taking everything personally, all the time.

You seem to be operating under the impression that other people's subjective opinions should be used to force others to change their behavior. If a person isn't breaking the law and is behaving in a manner they deem appropriate then they are not beholden to anyone else's concepts of social conventions or standards of etiquette. I'll live my life as best I can in accordance to the standards of behavior I wish to uphold. If that leaves some people disappointed that's unfortunate for them but I'm not going to waste my time worrying about whether or not my every subconscious action is a triggering microaggression against somebody somewhere. It's an imperfect world full of imperfect people, all we can do is try our best to be at our best.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Unconscious bias does not equal racist. Sorry but it is the truth.

As I previously wrote: you are not racist, you are just treating people differently because of their skin color! That means there is no problem and we should all be very happy and not change a thing!

Good demonstration of the toxic results of your position. Now you're accusing people of racism just because they disagree with you about the role of unconscious cultural factors in what should be categorized as racism.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
You can't use unconscious actions/reactions as an excuse to castigate somebody.

Ahahah, it seems that it is all some people care about in this thread. MEMEME! Don't say anything bad about ME! Don't talk about your problem because it could make ME look bad! It's all about ME!

People want to defend themselves and those who share their interests against false allegations of sexism and racism? That's just crazy...

Being treated unfairly due to some unconscious bias is a completely fair and justified reason to be angry. If that hurts your feeling because you did not meant to treat people unfairly, then… well, two advices. First, stop focusing on how you are a good person, start focusing on how you can become better. Second, stop taking everything personally, all the time.

Prestor Jon wrote:
If a person isn't breaking the law and is behaving in a manner they deem appropriate then they are not beholden to anyone else's concepts of social conventions or standards of etiquette.

Yes. You are not beholden to any social convention. But then, please, please, please never again complain when someone points out gamers, or really any group you belong to, is made of people with seriously lacking social skills, or other similar complaints. Because you just gloated about it.
You are welcome to be a social troglodyte, just accept the consequences of people showing you the door of their own places because they are done with having to tolerate you gaking on their social conventions.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Yes. You are not beholden to any social convention. But then, please, please, please never again complain when someone points out gamers, or really any group you belong to, is made of people with seriously lacking social skills, or other similar complaints. Because you just gloated about it.

That would be inconsistent. He never said once that people should not complain, did he?

You are welcome to be a social troglodyte

See? Disagree and then come the insults.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Sorry, but I don't roll that way.

I live by the time-tested rule "You can look, but don't touch". If I see an attractive female walking around about her business, I'm going to look and admire her attributes. As long as I don't ogle and drool, coming across as a serial killer looking for prey, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. When you are in public, you can't stop people from checking you out. Period. I don't give a damn who you are or how "offended" you might be. I, myself, don't walk around staring at the ground like some scared beta in fear of offending somebody by my gaze.

If you don't want the opposite sex (or same sex if you are homosexual) checking you out, and get horribly offended when they do, then wear a fething burqa or stay home. I don't care which.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
I don't give a damn who you are or how "offended" you might be. I, myself, don't walk around staring at the ground like some scared beta in fear of offending somebody by my gaze.

You misspelled uncomfortable. You don't give a damn how uncomfortable you might make people, you will not behave like a beta.
Hint: you can try chest-thumbing to accentuate your words, next time. Because that is definitely how you come out when you say how much you won't ever change your behavior to accommodate other peoples because that would be WEAK and UNMANLY.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
If you don't want the opposite sex (or same sex if you are homosexual) checking you out, and get horribly offended when they do, then wear a fething burqa or stay home. I don't care which.

It is funny you mention the burka, because that is basically what any good Islamist apologist would say. “If you don't wear the veil, people will treat you like gak and will be justified in doing so”. At least those are not beta, am I right?

.

Considering that I never used that word, no I don't believe I misspelled it. You must be seeing things. I know France produces some of the best wine on planet Earth, but it might be a good idea to go light on it when posting.


I can say with 100% certainty, however, that either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you're playing the part of the good little radical twisting a point into something that it's not.


And no, I will not "accommodate" others concerning a behavior that's natural, and not harmful to others. That was the point. You must have missed the part about not being creepy about it. Being "offended" over something that is inherently harmless and natural isn't good enough reason in my book.


And yeah, I'm an alpha. And no, contrary to what post-modernist, neo-progressives might tell you, it doesn't involved the aforementioned "chest thumping". Nor does it involve treating women like crap. Being "manly" is about being confident, strong in character, not afraid to be "manly", a go-getter, and having pride and self respect. It's about fulfilling your obligations, as a man, to family, friends, and society. It's about having a strong sense of honor. All of which is not present in most betas I've run into, who obsess over "First World Problems", are self centered, self-absorbed, and are complete candy asses.


And when did I say anything about treating people like gak? Admiring a beautiful woman in public, as long as you are not a jerk about it, is not treating them like garbage. If anything, it's a high compliment. No, you're just reading into it. what you want it to be. Oh, and I love how you imply that I'm on the same level as the Taliban because I don't march lock-step with your views.(sarcasm.jpg) And you misspelled burqa, you culturally insensitive European imperialist devil. (sarcasm.jpg)

 MattofWar wrote:
Good demonstration of the toxic results of your position. Now you're accusing people of racism just because they disagree with you about the role of unconscious cultural factors in what should be categorized as racism.

Whatever happened to reading comprehension? How many time will people read me writing “you are not racist” and understand “you are racist”?

Yeah, he is not racist. Just look, he provided the formal definition. His whole deal, though, was that unconscious bias are not racism, even when those bias means treating people differently because of their skin color. And yeah, that is true, he proved it with his very nice formal definition. However, it just so happens I care more about the fact that treating people differently because of their skin color is unfair and bad than about if it is or is not racism according to his very nice, very cute formal definition.

Maybe because I care more about fixing unfair stuff than about whether or not someone said I was racist. But yeah, your priorities are cool too. Not.

 Chongara wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
Sorry, but I don't roll that way.

I live by the time-tested rule "You can look, but don't touch". If I see an attractive female walking around about her business, I'm going to look and admire her attributes. As long as I don't ogle and drool, coming across as a serial killer looking for prey, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. When you are in public, you can't stop people from checking you out. Period. I don't give a damn who you are or how "offended" you might be. I, myself, don't walk around staring at the ground like some scared beta in fear of offending somebody by my gaze.

If you don't want the opposite sex (or same sex if you are homosexual) checking you out, and get horribly offended when they do, then wear a fething burqa or stay home. I don't care which.

I love the Ferengi. But looking at women, and admiring their looks in a normal manner, isn't lecherous. Ogling and acting a stereotypical singles bar creep is, on the other hand.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
I don't give a damn who you are or how "offended" you might be. I, myself, don't walk around staring at the ground like some scared beta in fear of offending somebody by my gaze.

You misspelled uncomfortable. You don't give a damn how uncomfortable you might make people, you will not behave like a beta.
Hint: you can try chest-thumbing to accentuate your words, next time. Because that is definitely how you come out when you say how much you won't ever change your behavior to accommodate other peoples because that would be WEAK and UNMANLY.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
If you don't want the opposite sex (or same sex if you are homosexual) checking you out, and get horribly offended when they do, then wear a fething burqa or stay home. I don't care which.

It is funny you mention the burka, because that is basically what any good Islamist apologist would say. “If you don't wear the veil, people will treat you like gak and will be justified in doing so”. At least those are not beta, am I right?

.

Considering that I never used that word, no I don't believe I misspelled it. You must be seeing things. I know France produces some of the best wine on planet Earth, but it might be a good idea to go light on it when posting.


I can say with 100% certainty, however, that either your reading comprehension is terrible, or you're playing the part of the good little radical twisting a point into something that it's not.


And no, I will not "accommodate" others concerning a behavior that's natural, and not harmful to others. That was the point. You must have missed the part about not being creepy about it. Being "offended" over something that is inherently harmless and natural isn't good enough reason in my book.


And yeah, I'm an alpha. And no, contrary to what post-modernist, neo-progressives might tell you, it doesn't involved the aforementioned "chest thumping". Nor does it involve treating women like crap. Being "manly" is about being confident, strong in character, not afraid to be "manly", a go-getter, and having pride and self respect. It's about fulfilling your obligations, as a man, to family, friends, and society. It's about having a strong sense of honor. All of which is not present in most betas I've run into, who obsess over "First World Problems", are self centered, self-absorbed, and are complete candy asses.


And when did I say anything about treating people like gak? Admiring a beautiful woman in public, as long as you are not a jerk about it, is not treating them like garbage. If anything, it's a high compliment. No, you're just reading into it. what you want it to be. Oh, and I love how you imply that I'm on the same level as the Taliban because I don't march lock-step with your views.(sarcasm.jpg) And you misspelled burqa, you culturally insensitive European imperialist devil. (sarcasm.jpg)

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


I love the Ferengi. But looking at women, and admiring their looks in a normal manner, isn't lecherous. Ogling and acting a stereotypical singles bar creep is, on the other hand.

So would you say you're a nice guy that acts like a gentleman?

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
You must have missed the part about not being creepy about it.

If you creep out the people you are looking at, you are being creepy. You are just too, uh, “strong in character” to notice it .

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
And no, contrary to what post-modernist, neo-progressives might tell you, it doesn't involved the aforementioned "chest thumping". Nor does it involve treating women like crap. Being "manly" is about being confident, strong in character, not afraid to be "manly", a go-getter, and having pride and self respect. It's about fulfilling your obligations, as a man, to family, friends, and society. It's about having a strong sense of honor. All of which is not present in most betas I've run into, who obsess over "First World Problems", are self centered, self-absorbed, and are complete candy asses.

Damn. That's cute.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
If anything, it's a high compliment.

If people complain, over and over and over again, about your “high compliments”, what does it tell about you, alpha man?

 Chongara wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:


I love the Ferengi. But looking at women, and admiring their looks in a normal manner, isn't lecherous. Ogling and acting a stereotypical singles bar creep is, on the other hand.

So would you say you're a nice guy that acts like a gentleman?

When it comes to the ladies, I believe in being a gentleman.


But that doesn't mean I can't appreciate them without being a creepy basement dweller about it.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
If a person isn't breaking the law and is behaving in a manner they deem appropriate then they are not beholden to anyone else's concepts of social conventions or standards of etiquette.

Yes. You are not beholden to any social convention. But then, please, please, please never again complain when someone points out gamers, or really any group you belong to, is made of people with seriously lacking social skills, or other similar complaints. Because you just gloated about it.
You are welcome to be a social troglodyte, just accept the consequences of people showing you the door of their own places because they are done with having to tolerate you gaking on their social conventions.

I usually ignore people who make sweeping generalizations, either positive or negative, about large diverse groups of people. Especially when such generalizations are based upon anecdotal evidence and subjective opinions. Whether or not you think "gamers" are misogynistic or sexist or racist or whatever has no bearing on how I choose to play games or with whom I choose to play those tabletop or board games. There may well be some bad apples in the bunch, but since I'm not responsible for those bad apples I'm not going to worry about them. Nor am I going to attempt to set myself up as the arbiter of what a "good gamer" should be and/or try to force others to conform to my personal opinions of behavior. If a person doesn't conduct himself or herself in a manner that makes me want to game with him/her then I won't and if a game store doesn't create an atmosphere I want to shop in then I won't give them my business. I always try to avoid being narrow minded and convinced that my personal opinion of something is the only correct view to hold. Literally everyone else in the world is different from me and they are all going to have their own opinions, beliefs and culture and that's going to lead to a host of minor differences that I try to look past and not hold against anyone or force them to change to suit me.

Is anyone in this thread making the argument that sexual harassment or sexual assault are acceptable or shouldn't be criminalized? Is anyone arguing that rudeness should be condoned?

I don't know the veracity of the claims made in the article in the OP but none of those behaviors would be tolerated by me if I witnessed them and in a majority of those situations the police should be called and reports filed. Since none of the people who committed those actions were me, I feel no responsiblity for them, although I do empathize with the woman who experienced them even if the events didn't transpire exactly as she wrote them. Those actions don't reflect negatively on me and my actions don't reflect on them, we're completely different people who just happen to have a tangential connection of being enthusiasts of a hobby.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Whatever happened to reading comprehension? How many time will people read me writing “you are not racist” and understand “you are racist”?

You accused him of treating people differently because of their skin color!

However, it just so happens I care more about the fact that treating people differently because of their skin color is unfair and bad than about if it is or is not racism according to his very nice, very cute formal definition.

See? You're just doing a rhetorical trick where you mockingly agree with his definition and then use your own criteria to call him a racist anyway (that is what you mean when you say he treats people differently based on skin color and that's bad, right?).

Maybe because I care more about fixing unfair stuff than about whether or not someone said I was racist. But yeah, your priorities are cool too. Not.

My priorities result in real change. When people are not falsely accused of bigotry they can be invited into participating in real equality. They can become part of the solution and not the enemy.

On the bright side out in the real world the SJW crap isn't tolerated. Nobody wants to work alongside someone pushing a hardline agenda. Work sucks enough as it is. All the older females I work with laugh at keyboard activists. Most of them are elected officials or run their respective offices, and think most women today don't know how good they've got it. Whitey McWhitewhite is struggling so hard just to make ends meet he doesn't have time for a secret agenda of oppression while he's paying alimony and child support.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

When it comes to the ladies, I believe in being a gentleman.

The Ladies

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 MattofWar wrote:
Good demonstration of the toxic results of your position. Now you're accusing people of racism just because they disagree with you about the role of unconscious cultural factors in what should be categorized as racism.

Whatever happened to reading comprehension? How many time will people read me writing “you are not racist” and understand “you are racist”?

Yeah, he is not racist. Just look, he provided the formal definition. His whole deal, though, was that unconscious bias are not racism, even when those bias means treating people differently because of their skin color. And yeah, that is true, he proved it with his very nice formal definition. However, it just so happens I care more about the fact that treating people differently because of their skin color is unfair and bad than about if it is or is not racism according to his very nice, very cute formal definition.

Maybe because I care more about fixing unfair stuff than about whether or not someone said I was racist. But yeah, your priorities are cool too. Not.

So your position is that everyone should train themselves so that their subconscious actions all meet your personal definition of "fair treatment"? That's an awful lot of judgment and authority you're assuming there. Your personal opinions on fairness are not universal truths, they are subjective personal opinions. If you seriously believe in trying to shame, cajole and coerce other people into adhering to your personal ideal of fair social conduct then you're wasting your time and setting yourself up for some unnecessary frustration and anger.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If you creep out the people you are looking at, you are being creepy.

I think it's more likely that the person will be considered creepy or not based on whether or not they are found attractive. If the person finds the person looking at them and saying hi unattractive, they're creepy. If they are attractive, they're not. It's a form of discrimination against ugly people from unconscious cultural bias that you refuse to examine.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
You must have missed the part about not being creepy about it.

If you creep out the people you are looking at, you are being creepy. You are just too, uh, “strong in character” to notice it .

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
And no, contrary to what post-modernist, neo-progressives might tell you, it doesn't involved the aforementioned "chest thumping". Nor does it involve treating women like crap. Being "manly" is about being confident, strong in character, not afraid to be "manly", a go-getter, and having pride and self respect. It's about fulfilling your obligations, as a man, to family, friends, and society. It's about having a strong sense of honor. All of which is not present in most betas I've run into, who obsess over "First World Problems", are self centered, self-absorbed, and are complete candy asses.

Damn. That's cute.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
If anything, it's a high compliment.

If people complain, over and over and over again, about your “high compliments”, what does it tell about you, alpha man?

1. horsegak. There is a difference between the oversensitive recipient and an actual creep. If I don't act creepy about it, and they still get offended because I look at them, then that's their problem. They need to learn how to deal with being among the general public, and better recognize what is not offensive and what actually is.

There is no such thing as being "too strong in character". I'm beginning to suspect that you're trolling. Or you're twelve. Which is it?

2. Of course it's "cute" to people who don't have actual values. Forgetting good, honest values is part of the problem nowadays. Of course, being responsible and upright is a joke, and cramps your style, right?

3. It tells me that you are somebody who doesn't know your ass from a hole in the ground. And that you live in your own little ideal world.

This "alpha man" knows that there are jerks out there who deserve their comeuppance. This "alpha man" also knows that a lot of complaints of that nature are bs. When I was in college, people had complaints slapped on them if they did the least little thing that was considered "politically incorrect" and "insensitive". But that's the way people roll on campuses nowadays. Too bad a lot of them never grow up after they graduate, and join the rest of the Human race.

So, spare me the bs. It's so strong, I can almost smell it through my computer screen.

My advice, oldraven, is to push that "Ignore" button...save yourself some potential warnings for being suckered in by trolling.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
When it comes to the ladies, I believe in being a gentleman.

 MattofWar wrote:
I think it's more likely that the person will be considered creepy or not based on whether or not they are found attractive.

Indeed. Quite indubitably.

 MattofWar wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
If you creep out the people you are looking at, you are being creepy.

I think it's more likely that the person will be considered creepy or not based on whether or not they are found attractive. If the person finds the person looking at them and saying hi unattractive, they're creepy. If they are attractive, they're not. It's a form of discrimination against ugly people from unconscious cultural bias that you refuse to examine.

...and? The definition of harassment, being creepy or whatever you want to call it is that it's unwanted attention. There are many factors that go into if attention is wanted or not but certainly the nature of the person giving the attention is one of them. Following from that we can say it's also sensible that one of the factors that goes into how you perceive someone is how attractive they are. So it's plainly obvious that yes, given all other numerous factors being exactly equal an attractive person's behaviour is less likely to fall under the category of creepy or harassment.

It's not a bad thing, or unfair, or really "discriminatory" in the way that word commonly used. It's just an inherent part of those things being defined by the perceptions, boundaries and desires of the person being acted upon. There's nothing to "Examine" unless you want to throw out very concept of harassment specifically, and the idea that certain behaviours are more or less appropriate under certain social contexts more generally.

 Chongara wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

When it comes to the ladies, I believe in being a gentleman.

The Ladies

Yes, the ladies. a respectful and polite term you use to refer to women.


Of course, that's probably considered sexist nowadays. Idiotic.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
You must have missed the part about not being creepy about it.

If you creep out the people you are looking at, you are being creepy. You are just too, uh, “strong in character” to notice it .

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
And no, contrary to what post-modernist, neo-progressives might tell you, it doesn't involved the aforementioned "chest thumping". Nor does it involve treating women like crap. Being "manly" is about being confident, strong in character, not afraid to be "manly", a go-getter, and having pride and self respect. It's about fulfilling your obligations, as a man, to family, friends, and society. It's about having a strong sense of honor. All of which is not present in most betas I've run into, who obsess over "First World Problems", are self centered, self-absorbed, and are complete candy asses.

Damn. That's cute.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
If anything, it's a high compliment.

If people complain, over and over and over again, about your “high compliments”, what does it tell about you, alpha man?

1. horsegak. There is a difference between the oversensitive recipient and an actual creep. If I don't act creepy about it, and they still get offended because I look at them, then that's their problem. They need to learn how to deal with being among the general public, and better recognize what is not offensive and what actually is.

There is no such thing as being "too strong in character". I'm beginning to suspect that you're trolling. Or you're twelve. Which is it?

2. Of course it's "cute" to people who don't have actual values. Forgetting good, honest values is part of the problem nowadays. Of course, being responsible and upright is a joke, and cramps your style, right?

3. It tells me that you are somebody who doesn't know your ass from a hole in the ground. And that you live in your own little ideal world.

This "alpha man" knows that there are jerks out there who deserve their comeuppance. This "alpha man" also knows that a lot of complaints of that nature are bs. When I was in college, people had complaints slapped on them if they did the least little thing that was considered "politically incorrect" and "insensitive". But that's the way people roll on campuses nowadays. Too bad a lot of them never grow up after they graduate, and join the rest of the Human race.

So, spare me the bs. It's so strong, I can almost smell it through my computer screen.

I was taught that it was impolite to stare and I still believe that and teach it to our children. You can tell at a glance what somebody looks like, there really isn't a compelling need to stare. I'm not blind, I can see girls at the gym every day and see how they look in their yoga pants the moment I glance at them. However, I would never actually stare at them or look at them to the extent that they can tell that I'm looking at them, that would be rude/creepy and isn't how I would want somebody to treat any of my family or friends. If you stare at somebody then that person has a valid reason to view you as being rude/creepy regardless of the intent on your part.

If I don't act creepy about it, and they still get offended because I look at them, then that's their problem.

Out of curiosity, how many people that are creepy think they are acting creepy? I would that vast majority don't think they are being creepy, but I don't know as I am not an expert on creeps, just crepes.

Prestor Jon wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
You must have missed the part about not being creepy about it.

If you creep out the people you are looking at, you are being creepy. You are just too, uh, “strong in character” to notice it .

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
And no, contrary to what post-modernist, neo-progressives might tell you, it doesn't involved the aforementioned "chest thumping". Nor does it involve treating women like crap. Being "manly" is about being confident, strong in character, not afraid to be "manly", a go-getter, and having pride and self respect. It's about fulfilling your obligations, as a man, to family, friends, and society. It's about having a strong sense of honor. All of which is not present in most betas I've run into, who obsess over "First World Problems", are self centered, self-absorbed, and are complete candy asses.

Damn. That's cute.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:
If anything, it's a high compliment.

If people complain, over and over and over again, about your “high compliments”, what does it tell about you, alpha man?

1. horsegak. There is a difference between the oversensitive recipient and an actual creep. If I don't act creepy about it, and they still get offended because I look at them, then that's their problem. They need to learn how to deal with being among the general public, and better recognize what is not offensive and what actually is.

There is no such thing as being "too strong in character". I'm beginning to suspect that you're trolling. Or you're twelve. Which is it?

2. Of course it's "cute" to people who don't have actual values. Forgetting good, honest values is part of the problem nowadays. Of course, being responsible and upright is a joke, and cramps your style, right?

3. It tells me that you are somebody who doesn't know your ass from a hole in the ground. And that you live in your own little ideal world.

This "alpha man" knows that there are jerks out there who deserve their comeuppance. This "alpha man" also knows that a lot of complaints of that nature are bs. When I was in college, people had complaints slapped on them if they did the least little thing that was considered "politically incorrect" and "insensitive". But that's the way people roll on campuses nowadays. Too bad a lot of them never grow up after they graduate, and join the rest of the Human race.

So, spare me the bs. It's so strong, I can almost smell it through my computer screen.

I was taught that it was impolite to stare and I still believe that and teach it to our children. You can tell at a glance what somebody looks like, there really isn't a compelling need to stare. I'm not blind, I can see girls at the gym every day and see how they look in their yoga pants the moment I glance at them. However, I would never actually stare at them or look at them to the extent that they can tell that I'm looking at them, that would be rude/creepy and isn't how I would want somebody to treat any of my family or friends. If you stare at somebody then that person has a valid reason to view you as being rude/creepy regardless of the intent on your part.

I don't don't take issue with any other part of your post.

Well, I equate "staring" with "ogling". And yes, that is creepy and rude, I agree.


But the point is that just looking and liking what you see isn't creepy or rude.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 MattofWar wrote:
Good demonstration of the toxic results of your position. Now you're accusing people of racism just because they disagree with you about the role of unconscious cultural factors in what should be categorized as racism.

Whatever happened to reading comprehension? How many time will people read me writing “you are not racist” and understand “you are racist”?

Yeah, he is not racist. Just look, he provided the formal definition. His whole deal, though, was that unconscious bias are not racism, even when those bias means treating people differently because of their skin color. And yeah, that is true, he proved it with his very nice formal definition. However, it just so happens I care more about the fact that treating people differently because of their skin color is unfair and bad than about if it is or is not racism according to his very nice, very cute formal definition.

Maybe because I care more about fixing unfair stuff than about whether or not someone said I was racist. But yeah, your priorities are cool too. Not.

And how do you know that I don't care about unconscious biases? How do you know what my motivations are here?

No offense you just seem to be grasping at straws.

 Ahtman wrote:

If I don't act creepy about it, and they still get offended because I look at them, then that's their problem.

Out of curiosity, how many people that are creepy think they are acting creepy? I would that vast majority don't think they are being creepy, but I don't know as I am not an expert on creeps, just crepes.

Oh they so don't. Like my uncle. This is an actual exchange

Girl Behind Counter: Hi Can I take your order.
Me: I'll take the chicken combo with Mac & Cheese
My Uncle: Oh I dunno yet. That's a nice necklace you've got there
GBC: Thanks
My Uncle: Did your boyfriend buy it for you.
GBC: No my mom did...
My Uncle: Single, eh
GBC: So what do you want to eat
My Uncle: I guess I'll get a chicken sandwhich.
GBC: Ok your number is 339.
My Uncle: Thanks cutie.
Me: Oh come on, you were being a bit of a creeper there. You made her totally uncomfortable.
My Uncle: No I was just being friendly.