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Jack Flask wrote: Has anyone considered that GW might be setting up for a Horus Heresy Round 2?
Seems more like a Great crusade remix to me. If these are Marines V2 I'd hope that GW write the background so they can be made from existing geenseed and not just Robute's genetic material. Not everyone that plays vanilla SM plays Ultras or there successor's.
The heroes of the old Imperium being replaced by new ones Imagine how some of them may feel. Not too different than some of the traitor legions 10k years ago...
Jack Flask wrote: Has anyone considered that GW might be setting up for a Horus Heresy Round 2?
Seems more like a Great crusade remix to me. If these are Marines V2 I'd hope that GW write the background so they can be made from existing geenseed and not just Robute's genetic material. Not everyone that plays vanilla SM plays Ultras or there successor's.
To be fair, aren't about 50% of Space Marine chapters supposed to be Ultramarine successors? So could take the new units without any significant fluff contortions?
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
Jadenim wrote: To be fair, aren't about 50% of Space Marine chapters supposed to be Ultramarine successors? So could take the new units without any significant fluff contortions?
True but there are still the White scars, Imperial fists, Salamanders, Raven guard, Iron hands and there respective successor chapters. The fluff doesn't really reflect the real world spread of army's otherwise 90% of 40k players would be running IG and Orks
krazynadechukr wrote: I stand corrected. My local Gw manager (who told me about a new thunder hawk, overlords, and death watch before public knowledge) said the new marines are RGs new breed. Old marines are still valid and these will have new stats. They're between custodes and current marines in the line up of things....
So exactly what the original rumour from one of the most reliable guys (which was then commented on without correction by THE most reliable rumourmongers) said?
Who knew?
keep in mind the store manager could well have simply been reapting what he'd read on sites like this one. I've been warned by a few GW employees that "my sources are rarely any better then what you hear over the 'net
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jack Flask wrote: Has anyone considered that GW might be setting up for a Horus Heresy Round 2?
I have no rumors or inside knowledge to base it on, but just a feeling going off of what we've seen recently or know is coming.
1) Return of the Primarchs
I don't think there's much to say on this other than we know more primarchs are coming from the Atia, Sadpanda, and (iirc) Hastings rumors. I think even the most cynical people here can agree that after Mortarion we are going to get at least 1 more primarch, but personally I'm guessing GW will bring back as many primarchs as possible.
Also fluffwise their reappearance doesn't seem to be just a short term pillaging of the setting history. Where in the past a daemon primarch might show up for a single plot point only to then feth off back to the warp, its looking pretty likely that this is going to be a long, drawn out conflict. With Magnus pulling the Planet of Sorcerors into the material realm and Mortarion seemingly gunning for Guilliman directly it doesn't seem like this will be a one and done affair.
2) GW's stated focus on Imperium vs Chaos for the near future
Considering that Space Marines are the poster boys for both the Chaos and Imperial factions it only makes sense that we'll be seeing a lot of marine vs marine battles with Xenos taking the backseat in upcoming books. This means that there will be a lot more opportunities to explore the change in relations and rivalries between the first founders and fallen legions over the course of the last 10k years in much the same way that the HH focuses on how the legions reevaluate their place in the Imperium and their relationships with one another.
We can see this in the difference in treatment between Primarch Descendant Chapters/Legions vs the Unknown Origin Chapters/Renegades. Unknown descendant Chapters get no special rules at all while Renegades are only represented by the "much loved" Crimson Slaughter book which to my understanding was more or reprinted in Traitor Legions as the Word Bearers tactics...
Meanwhile between the core SM codex, SW codex, BA codex, DA codex, and Angels of Death all 9 descendant chapters have at least some amount of rules and wargear if not also special units to represent them uniquely. The chaos legions has similarly gained Traitor Legions, Thousand Sons, and soon Death Guard to add unique rules, wargear, and special units back into the mix.
How this relates to Guillimarines. A core element of the Horus Heresy fluff is how each legion's primarch shaped their own legion to be specialized on a certain type of warfare which is represented in the game as a some unique units, special rules, and wargear wrapped around an identical core astartes list. However until recently 4th - 7th Editions of 40k homogenized most marines into just being different colored armor on the same armies. But with Thousand Sons and Death Guard it seems that GW really want to bring back unique astartes units (if for no reason other than to sell new minis to people who have already completed their SM and CSM armies).
So if the supposed rumors of the Nu Marines being Ultramarines only are true then they could be their unique units. I mean they are essentially exactly what the Ultras would make, a +1 version of the most flexible existing units like Tacticals and Assault Marines. So maybe if we get Corax, Dorn, Jaghatai, etc back then they will also bring with them new special units for their own descendants.
HH round 2 is a good way to put it, I think we need to step back and look, GW is making a fairly solid change here, and we need to look at what those changes are. Firstly, GW is apparently listening to the player base but they're also a company, so they're also gonna be looking at what we're buying, so, outside of what unit is broken and what new power lists emerged at what tourny, what's the MOST talked about thing among the 40k fanbase? the answer? the horus Heresy. players like the solid storyline, with the alrger then lfie figures etc (and yes not everyone does but as a general rule it seems to be popular) so I expect we'll see that emerge, so a evolving storyline focusing on characters more then anything else. we've seen it with gathering storm, where the real focus wasn't on the battles but the great characters and how they interacted with said battles. I expect that feel to continue.
which means, in my opinion we can proably start to see some variation among the chapters (something that GW's been trying hard for even before this new leaf) as well as likely a slew of new heros for the various factions. Since it started with Wraith of Magnus, we've gotten a slew of new special characters,most likely we'll see trimvirates contining, while chaos will instead get a single demon primarch mini
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/30 08:32:27
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Not sure if this has already been pointed out. But I just remembered that Cato Sicarius, captain of the Ultras 2nd company(red trim) went to Terra alongside Robute. If the starter box is Numarines vs Death guard, could the background be Sicarius leading his "new" 2nd company back to Ultramar?
GoatboyBeta wrote: Not sure if this has already been pointed out. But I just remembered that Cato Sicarius, captain of the Ultras 2nd company(red trim) went to Terra alongside Robute. If the starter box is Numarines vs Death guard, could the background be Sicarius leading his "new" 2nd company back to Ultramar?
Hmm. Good observation. This would imply that the übermarines are somehow upgraded from existing marines, which I think would be preferable to them being a completely separate creation. This would allow existing characters to be relevant, they'd just receive 2.0 upgrade (still rather lame, but better than the old guys just being completely sidelined.)
GoatboyBeta wrote: Not sure if this has already been pointed out. But I just remembered that Cato Sicarius, captain of the Ultras 2nd company(red trim) went to Terra alongside Robute. If the starter box is Numarines vs Death guard, could the background be Sicarius leading his "new" 2nd company back to Ultramar?
The Second Company of a Codex Chapter has Gold Trim, Cato Sicarius therefore has Gold Trim.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Not sure if this has already been pointed out. But I just remembered that Cato Sicarius, captain of the Ultras 2nd company(red trim) went to Terra alongside Robute. If the starter box is Numarines vs Death guard, could the background be Sicarius leading his "new" 2nd company back to Ultramar?
Hmm. Good observation. This would imply that the übermarines are somehow upgraded from existing marines, which I think would be preferable to them being a completely separate creation. This would allow existing characters to be relevant, they'd just receive 2.0 upgrade (still rather lame, but better than the old guys just being completely sidelined.)
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
To be honest most of the lore reasons people are coming up with sound more horrible than GW just upsizing the existing Marines with no explanation
I also don't really see where a new variety of Marine would sit stats wise. Even though GW have expanded the stat line above 10, we've seen the statlines for Marines and Terminators and I don't reckon there's going to be space between Marines, Terminators and Custodes to fit another intermediate Marine.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: To be honest most of the lore reasons people are coming up with sound more horrible than GW just upsizing the existing Marines with no explanation
Well, yeah. I literally cannot imagine a fluff justification for this that wouldn't be hella awkward.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: To be honest most of the lore reasons people are coming up with sound more horrible than GW just upsizing the existing Marines with no explanation
I also don't really see where a new variety of Marine would sit stats wise. Even though GW have expanded the stat line above 10, we've seen the statlines for Marines and Terminators and I don't reckon there's going to be space between Marines, Terminators and Custodes to fit another intermediate Marine.
You are really underestimating GW's desire for pushing more marines. They did Marines inside Marines some years ago! Marines 1.5 between Marines 1.0 and Marines 2.0 (Custodes) is a total posibility.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
krazynadechukr wrote: I stand corrected. My local Gw manager (who told me about a new thunder hawk, overlords, and death watch before public knowledge) said the new marines are RGs new breed. Old marines are still valid and these will have new stats. They're between custodes and current marines in the line up of things....
So exactly what the original rumour from one of the most reliable guys (which was then commented on without correction by THE most reliable rumourmongers) said?
Who knew?
Not me!
For those of us who are unaware of the "original rumor" and who this "most reliable" source is, enlighten us.
I'm actually glad I was unaware of it. I thought these fluff theories were just people's theories to justify Gw going to true scale. Glad I got another source, from GW, that mirrors this "original " rumor!
Always good to have multiple sources say the same thing.
krazynadechukr wrote: I stand corrected. My local Gw manager (who told me about a new thunder hawk, overlords, and death watch before public knowledge) said the new marines are RGs new breed. Old marines are still valid and these will have new stats. They're between custodes and current marines in the line up of things....
So exactly what the original rumour from one of the most reliable guys (which was then commented on without correction by THE most reliable rumourmongers) said?
Who knew?
Not me!
For those of us who are unaware of the "original rumor" and who this "most reliable" source is, enlighten us.
I'm actually glad I was unaware of it. I thought these fluff theories were just people's theories to justify Gw going to true scale. Glad I got another source, from GW, that mirrors this "original " rumor!
Always good to have multiple sources say the same thing.
Can't wait to get back into 40k!
Probably referring to Hastings.
GW store managers generally don't know crap about anything. At BEST they're just echoing what they themselves have heard on the internet, at worst they make crap up that has no basis in truth or reality (I'm still waiting on my Dreadnought sized Necron that a store manager told me about around 20 years ago ).
krazynadechukr wrote: I stand corrected. My local Gw manager (who told me about a new thunder hawk, overlords, and death watch before public knowledge) said the new marines are RGs new breed. Old marines are still valid and these will have new stats. They're between custodes and current marines in the line up of things....
So exactly what the original rumour from one of the most reliable guys (which was then commented on without correction by THE most reliable rumourmongers) said?
Who knew?
Not me!
For those of us who are unaware of the "original rumor" and who this "most reliable" source is, enlighten us.
I'm actually glad I was unaware of it. I thought these fluff theories were just people's theories to justify Gw going to true scale. Glad I got another source, from GW, that mirrors this "original " rumor!
Always good to have multiple sources say the same thing.
Can't wait to get back into 40k!
Can we please add "no commenting in a thread unless you've at least read the OP" to "the rules" please?
Seriously, it's all there, every bit of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/30 16:46:49
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
AllSeeingSkink wrote: To be honest most of the lore reasons people are coming up with sound more horrible than GW just upsizing the existing Marines with no explanation
I also don't really see where a new variety of Marine would sit stats wise. Even though GW have expanded the stat line above 10, we've seen the statlines for Marines and Terminators and I don't reckon there's going to be space between Marines, Terminators and Custodes to fit another intermediate Marine.
As I said previously it's easy to see the gaps left for Gullimarines over Minimarines.
+1ld is easy to spot then +1w for defense as changing T might make them too good but would not rule out +1T over the extra wound. Give them +2 to hit leave +3 to wound. There equipment is also pretty easy the new armour gives a bonus to movement and a +2save maybe with a cannot be worse than +5 save rule, the new bolters have a longer range and assault 2 with a rend of -1.
Leave it to stand in till you can smell the cheese then slap an UM symbol on it and we're good to go.
Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis
krazynadechukr wrote: I stand corrected. My local Gw manager (who told me about a new thunder hawk, overlords, and death watch before public knowledge) said the new marines are RGs new breed. Old marines are still valid and these will have new stats. They're between custodes and current marines in the line up of things....
So exactly what the original rumour from one of the most reliable guys (which was then commented on without correction by THE most reliable rumourmongers) said?
Who knew?
Not me!
For those of us who are unaware of the "original rumor" and who this "most reliable" source is, enlighten us.
I'm actually glad I was unaware of it. I thought these fluff theories were just people's theories to justify Gw going to true scale. Glad I got another source, from GW, that mirrors this "original " rumor!
Always good to have multiple sources say the same thing.
Can't wait to get back into 40k!
Can we please add "no commenting in a thread unless you've at least read the OP" to "the rules" please?
Seriously, it's all there, every bit of it.
I read the op. Is that it? Is that the infallible unquestionable source and rumor?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and Sad Panda.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Probably worth mentioning Hastings made his comments on Lady Atia's blog too, so it's kind of a triple lock as I'm sure Atia would have said something if Hastings was too far off the mark.
Automatically Appended Next Post: But that's already in the OP, so you knew that.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/04/30 17:00:29
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Huh. So, what if it's literally as simple as implanting the organs in a newborn and letting them grow together? Like, none of this ritualistic selection crap, just Marine-from-birth and that much bigger for it…
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
Imagine how some of them may feel. Not too different than some of the traitor legions 10k years ago...
perfection.
