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Made in gr
Storm Trooper with Maglight





Linking the Sept restrictions to the 5 spheres would have been a bit more characterful than calling them "sectors A through E"
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Macon, GA

 Esmer wrote:
Linking the Sept restrictions to the 5 spheres would have been a bit more characterful than calling them "sectors A through E"


but the spheres aren't necessarily close together. I think it reflects the idea that a fifth sphere sept is more influenced the third sphere sept that launched colony, and it's closest fourth sept trading partner, than another fifth sphere sept on the other side of the space.

My Painted Armies
: Co. B, 37th Praetorian IG: 21,000pts
KOW Ogres: 4500 points
Loyalist Emperor's Children: 2500 points 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






 Polonius wrote:
 Esmer wrote:
Linking the Sept restrictions to the 5 spheres would have been a bit more characterful than calling them "sectors A through E"


but the spheres aren't necessarily close together. I think it reflects the idea that a fifth sphere sept is more influenced the third sphere sept that launched colony, and it's closest fourth sept trading partner, than another fifth sphere sept on the other side of the space.


In fact, the tau spheres of expansion (at least the first three) are actually closer to concentric circles, and there are some 2nd sphere colonies that are closer, physically, to T'au than colonies from the 1st sphere. I wouldn't be surprised if this mechanic started as a way of expressing the differences in attitude that spawned their respective Septs, but describing it in terms of sectors and location I think makes more sense, because the dudes over there who deal with orks all the time have different priorities than the one with the chaos uprisings amongst its gue'vessa laborers.

   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages. I am not complaining as this type of stuff happens but this thing has more cheese than a Waffle House Texas Melt. Giving Crisis suits who are toughness 5 -1 str if the weapon is not str 8 or higher will give them the durability of Lucius Admech when it first came out.

Now, something I will whine about is the change to the plasma rifle profile. This thing has always been rapid-fire, now that they have a codex where assault weapons are better for them they change it. That is simply codex creep, it just feels dirty. Let's change this weapon profile completely despite already having fusion blasters which originally had that role.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 CKO wrote:
Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages.


These sorts of takes make me giggle a little.

Ah yes, before the rest of the codex, the point values, and other limiting or balancing factors, stat changes, and other things, we're going to go ahead and rate this codex.

If this Codex is top tier, it'll be more because of codex creep more than because someone rated based on rumors that are as of yet proven.
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






drbored wrote:
 CKO wrote:
Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages.


These sorts of takes make me giggle a little.

Ah yes, before the rest of the codex, the point values, and other limiting or balancing factors, stat changes, and other things, we're going to go ahead and rate this codex.

If this Codex is top tier, it'll be more because of codex creep more than because someone rated based on rumors that are as of yet proven.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/18/earn-stellar-buffs-from-your-sept-or-create-your-own-with-codex-tau-empire/

A lot of the things are not rumors anymore. The -1 str example I gave is from this source. I am concerned about toughness 5 -1 str if you target the crisis suits armed with Airbursting fragmentation Projectors being buffed killing units regardless of line of sight and railguns making players pick up their models with no save. That is my prediction, if the rumors and released information that I have gathered is true then this is the best codex on release date. I have predicted these things before.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/799868.page

   
Made in gb
Furious Raptor




 CKO wrote:
Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages. I am not complaining as this type of stuff happens but this thing has more cheese than a Waffle House Texas Melt. Giving Crisis suits who are toughness 5 -1 str if the weapon is not str 8 or higher will give them the durability of Lucius Admech when it first came out.

Now, something I will whine about is the change to the plasma rifle profile. This thing has always been rapid-fire, now that they have a codex where assault weapons are better for them they change it. That is simply codex creep, it just feels dirty. Let's change this weapon profile completely despite already having fusion blasters which originally had that role.

I think there is an additional rumour that the plasma rifle was going to be 3 shots dmg 1 but they changed it to 1 shot dmg 3 after playtesting revealed it was too good. They are way too similar to fusion blasters now, although that is quite good due to the points on suits for multiples.

My own earlier prediction here https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/802034.page#11275934 just based on seeing a few of the previews.

I think GSC might be better though. It could be a DE/AdMech one two punch again with GSC being better but Tau being more hated.

Looking at the leaked rules, there do appear to be quite a few survivability/tanky options in the codex, Crisis/Stealth/Ghostkeel/Riptide/Stormsurge. Although, I can't tell if the Riptide is slightly overcosted compared to say an NDK or is it just meant to be more durable but less damaging. Drones inside squads feel like a fun way to mess with your opponent's target priority and efficiency. Fun for me, probably not for them.
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 CKO wrote:
drbored wrote:
 CKO wrote:
Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages.


These sorts of takes make me giggle a little.

Ah yes, before the rest of the codex, the point values, and other limiting or balancing factors, stat changes, and other things, we're going to go ahead and rate this codex.

If this Codex is top tier, it'll be more because of codex creep more than because someone rated based on rumors that are as of yet proven.


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/18/earn-stellar-buffs-from-your-sept-or-create-your-own-with-codex-tau-empire/

A lot of the things are not rumors anymore. The -1 str example I gave is from this source. I am concerned about toughness 5 -1 str if you target the crisis suits armed with Airbursting fragmentation Projectors being buffed killing units regardless of line of sight and railguns making players pick up their models with no save.

The -1 S is a weird example. It matters so little (only three strength values, and one doesn't matter much), and only shifts success by a pip.

If you fire a S7 weapon at a battlesuit, it becomes S6, and still wounds on a 3+. No effect

S6 becomes 5 and wounds on a 4+ rather than a 3+, fine, but... not amazing.
S5 becomes 4, and now wounds on 5+ rather than 4+
S4 becomes 3 and still wounds on 5+
S3 becomes 2, and now wounds on a 6+, but who was shooting you with lasguns and autoguns anyway?

For vehicles, its mostly the same (except S8 isn't even reduced), so really its S7 weapons now wound on a 5+ and S4 weapons go to 6+ for T7 vehicles. Slight defensive buff, but not really a huge deal.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/01/18 23:35:18


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Voss wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
Voss wrote:
I'm puzzled by the custom tenets. Each has 4 traits and you must pick 2 from neighboring sectors...

So, A + anything, B+C or D+E?
It feels arbitrary just to be different.


You pick a trait from Sector A with a choice of A1-A4 plus one from B with a choice of B1-B4, so you could do A3,B2 for example.

Right, I got that. The only real effect of the system is that the B & C traits are separated from the D & E traits. Presumably because there are powerful traits they don't want to combine, but at a glance, it seems really empty.



Well, can't tell until I see the full list of that's what they did, but I got an idea why the system COULD be great.

If each sector has its own "type" of rules it basically locks out doubling down on two similar effects, or worst-overlapping ones, without needing to spesificly block each interactions.

So A got the generalist and role defying rules (like the one shown turning your suits into viable objective capppers)
B got zone control/objective related buffs
C who knows, maybe firepower
D got durability buffs that you really don't want combined with zone contol as they will get too hard to shift, nor with raw firepower that will just turn toxic
E covers mobility that would be abusive with extra firepower or zone control

I hope that's how it goes, time will tell


can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gb
Furious Raptor




BoomWolf I thik you may have put more thought into this than GW.
   
Made in fi
5th God of Chaos (O'rly?)





drbored wrote:
 CKO wrote:
Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages.


These sorts of takes make me giggle a little.

Ah yes, before the rest of the codex, the point values, and other limiting or balancing factors, stat changes, and other things, we're going to go ahead and rate this codex.

If this Codex is top tier, it'll be more because of codex creep more than because someone rated based on rumors that are as of yet proven.


Always makes me giggle every time when people claim can't make judgement before release when they are proven wrong every single time

GW games are easy to figure out. It's literally 1st grader level to figure out best army lists and we get enough data well before release.

25 years, 25 years book strength is been known ahead release.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/19 13:09:49


2022 painted/bought: 227/322 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Voss wrote:
S6 becomes 5 and wounds on a 4+ rather than a 3+, fine, but... not amazing.
S5 becomes 4, and now wounds on 5+ rather than 4+

Which means that pretty much all good anti-infantry SM weapons, assault cannons, volkites, heavy bolters, light plasma incinerators, heavy flamers, flamestorms, frag cannons, gravitons, gatling cannons, etc, etc, are drastically reduced in effectiveness despite paying premium points for them. It's nothing, eh?

S3 becomes 2, and now wounds on a 6+, but who was shooting you with lasguns and autoguns anyway?

*cough* IG *cough* GSC *cough* Chaos humans. Tyranids, Demons and Admech also have lots of S3 on their troops and light infantry, but hey, reducing effectiveness of 6 whole armies by 50% is no big deal, eh?

For vehicles, its mostly the same (except S8 isn't even reduced), so really its S7 weapons now wound on a 5+ and S4 weapons go to 6+ for T7 vehicles. Slight defensive buff, but not really a huge deal.

Yup, invalidating plasma/autocannons/various missile pods is no big deal, eh? It's only a big chunk of SM heavy weapons, especially if you don't cherrypick broken gak from FW and play primaris, but who cares? I guess SM can fall back on their heavy laser destroyers--

Oh, wait, they didn't get the broken cheese mid edition direction change, so both are utterly useless agains Tau

Ditto with S4, it's only SM basic infantry profile, who cares if it's suddenly half as effective for no reason? Balanced!
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Galef wrote:


The fact is, shooting is and always will be the most powerful phase in 40k.


Thats a very bold statement to make, considering that for a number of editions it was the assault phase that was most powerful.

Apparently firewarriors are now mandatory 10 a unit. Great stuff seeing as the old kit had 12 of them in the box


The old kit has been out of production for about 8 years, why would that be at all relevant to the unit sizes today?

Why would a race using a base 8number system fix their squad sizes at 10..?


Lore != Rules


This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

tneva82 wrote:
drbored wrote:
 CKO wrote:
Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages.


These sorts of takes make me giggle a little.

Ah yes, before the rest of the codex, the point values, and other limiting or balancing factors, stat changes, and other things, we're going to go ahead and rate this codex.

If this Codex is top tier, it'll be more because of codex creep more than because someone rated based on rumors that are as of yet proven.


Always makes me giggle every time when people claim can't make judgement before release when they are proven wrong every single time

GW games are easy to figure out. It's literally 1st grader level to figure out best army lists and we get enough data well before release.

25 years, 25 years book strength is been known ahead release.


You do have the listen to the standard series of satements every time

* we donlt know the full picture - ah ok so now we do - just wait
* We don;t know the points - ah ok so we do well - Just wait
* We don't know if it will be the same in published dex - just wait
* We don't know if it will be changed in the 2 week faq - just wait
* we don;t know if it will be changed in due course - just wait
* It will be changed in the next dec/ or other codexes will get the same - just wait.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Irbis wrote:

5th edition Space Marine book not only presented captains and chapter masters first and foremost as commanders, it stressed their leadership abilities, not being a moron frothing at the mouth with a hammer charging forward on jetpack like modern SM HQs do. It was also the edition which actually put the fluff into consideration when writing the game - not only best SM captain 'generalist' option was a relic blade, not any of the S8 bludgeoning bricks (disincentivizing you from charging forward at big threats), but it was also the edition which introduced honor guard, company/chapter champion, dedicated command squads, and other dudes whose job was explicitly allowing the commanders to actually lead when said bodyguards were doing all the melee, both in game and in fluff. I miss when GW had actually competent writers who cared about fluff experience

If there is one big mistake that ruined the 'commander' feel, I think it's GW decision to give blanket 2+ to hit to all characters during late 7th and beginning of 8th (especially such laughable cases as Tau and IG leaders who used to have 4+ to hit). If they kept 4+ as baseline, 3+ for elites like SM and other long lived races, and 2+ for a single stat of truly special individuals, there would be much less incentive to treat character models as a beatstick (and you wouldn't need such kludges as Core mechanic, because commanders using their own aura would just make them a little bit better, not 2+ rerollable jokes they turned into). But in the era of orkstodes and tau/eldar glorified conscripted street sweepers getting 2+ to hit for no reason and other absurd stat inflation, this milk had spilled a long time ago...


Slightly off topic but I largely agree with your general point.

However, I think GW has long suffered from issues in that it never seems sure what to do with HQs. Stuff like Psykers are generally fine because they can meaningfully contribute to the battle without having to charge into melee. However, most other characters - especially the 'overall leader' type models (SP Captains, Archons, Autarchs, Chaos Lords etc.) don't have that ability. Nor even do many possess much in the way of mid-range weapons, so they can't even contribute to the battle from a distance. Indeed, most commanders are just presented with a whole rack of melee weapons and not a whole lot else. Granted, they have auras, but those are completely non-interactive and just not very interesting. With a psyker, you at least feel that they're doing something. Auras just mean a commander is sat on his big fat arse while everyone else does the actual work. I'm sure some will argue that's not a wholly unrealistic depiction of modern militaries but it doesn't exactly live up to 40k's artwork or general themes.

Even in 5th (which I agree got the philosophy right) clearly struggled with this issue because, short of a 1/game orbital bombardment for the SM Chapter Master, HQs were given nothing to do besides equipping a melee weapon and charging into melee like morons.

I would like to see more options for commanders taking on leadership rolls, rather than just being melee beaters. But I think it needs to be more interactive than just an aura - perhaps something like IG Orders or replacing auras and stratagems with a handful of command abilities, similar to AoS.

I also agree with you that it's not a good thing for so many units to be getting WS/BS2+. It's a shame because it could have been used to differentiate more between characters and factions (e.g. Eldar factions could have lower strength weapons but be more likely to land hits with them). Not to mention, as you say, differentiating commander-type HQs from pure beatsticks. Another opportunity missed, I fear.

 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Shas'la with Pulse Carbine





Florida

I'm not convinced the buffs to guns and suits shooting into engagement range makes up at all for losing 'For the Greater Good' and 'Savior Protocols'. There are so many fast and/or melee rush armies in the meta that Tau are really dependent on getting first turn now. Instead of being able to tank an alpha strike with drones and FtGG.

Drones being part of the unit, and all troops now at min unit 10 is just going to cause more morale losses and vulnerability to Blast which was never a concern before.

Some of the best stratagems that were leaked are locked behind Septs.

Spamming Hammerheads isn't going to carry you into the top tables.

We needed more board control for the objectives game, but instead got more glass cannon.

I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Irbis wrote:
Voss wrote:
S6 becomes 5 and wounds on a 4+ rather than a 3+, fine, but... not amazing.
S5 becomes 4, and now wounds on 5+ rather than 4+

Which means that pretty much all good anti-infantry SM weapons, assault cannons, volkites, heavy bolters, light plasma incinerators, heavy flamers, flamestorms, frag cannons, gravitons, gatling cannons, etc, etc, are drastically reduced in effectiveness despite paying premium points for them. It's nothing, eh?

Fine, but not amazing. What's confusing about that? Why do you think that equates to 'nothing?' And why are you cherrypicking anti-infantry weapons against battlesuits as the thing to worry about?

S3 becomes 2, and now wounds on a 6+, but who was shooting you with lasguns and autoguns anyway?

*cough* IG *cough* GSC *cough* Chaos humans. Tyranids, Demons and Admech also have lots of S3 on their troops and light infantry, but hey, reducing effectiveness of 6 whole armies by 50% is no big deal, eh?

You're shooting those at... battlesuits? Not, say... firewarriors? Or drones? Or...

For vehicles, its mostly the same (except S8 isn't even reduced), so really its S7 weapons now wound on a 5+ and S4 weapons go to 6+ for T7 vehicles. Slight defensive buff, but not really a huge deal.

Yup, invalidating plasma/autocannons/various missile pods is no big deal, eh? It's only a big chunk of SM heavy weapons, especially if you don't cherrypick broken gak from FW and play primaris, but who cares? I guess SM can fall back on their heavy laser destroyers--

What? If you're shooting primaris plasma at tau vehicles, you overcharge and it goes to strength 8 and this defensive buff has literally no effect.

Ditto with S4, it's only SM basic infantry profile, who cares if it's suddenly half as effective for no reason? Balanced!

Against... tanks. Shoot them against literally anything else (including battlesuits where the strength reduction from 4 to 3 does not matter).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/19 16:03:53


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in nl
Water-Caste Negotiator




Voss wrote:

Fine, but not amazing. What's confusing about that? Why do you think that equates to 'nothing?' And why are you cherrypicking anti-infantry weapons against battlesuits as the thing to worry about?


You're shooting those at... battlesuits? Not, say... firewarriors? Or drones? Or...

What? If you're shooting primaris plasma at tau vehicles, you overcharge and it goes to strength 8 and this defensive buff has literally no effect.

Against... tanks. Shoot them against literally anything else (including battlesuits where the strength reduction from 4 to 3 does not matter).


But, then what would they have to complain about? Tbh one of the big problems of the smaller battlesuits has always been their survivability. Savior protocol got out of hand with the previous edition changes so its being largely removed. Yes this ability makes them more difficult to kill with 'small' arms fire, but leaves their vulnerability to dedicated AT fire, which is now massively increased because savior protocol will be very limited. It's also an ability you can only get with a custom sept and might mean the other sept trait you can choose is one of the weaker ones, so you might not even see it being played.

1500, 100% WIP, 100% kick-ass
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Terrifying Doombull




Well, with battlesuits, its specifically lasgun fire, which is a weird thing to complain about. Target selection is a skill in 40k, and this complicates it a little for very specific weapon strengths.

But the complaints read like Christmas is ruined because the 40k equivalent of button-mashing in Mortal Kombat is suddenly an even worse idea for specific guns.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/19 16:49:45


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I feel Tau will be competitive because the damage output seems nuts. And as I think say Buggy Lists/prenerf Ad Mech have demonstrated - if you have enough shooting, some times you go first and just delete people.

With that said, I'm not sure what the situation is with the flyers, which were important to both lists, and they have been universally limited even if they are good.

Tend to think there are going to be more concerning things than -1S on battlesuits and vehicles at S7 and below.
Its another nail in those S7 2 damage guns - but DG and Orks kind of started that party. Someone in GW clearly thinks its still late 2018.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





tneva82 wrote:
drbored wrote:
 CKO wrote:
Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages.


These sorts of takes make me giggle a little.

Ah yes, before the rest of the codex, the point values, and other limiting or balancing factors, stat changes, and other things, we're going to go ahead and rate this codex.

If this Codex is top tier, it'll be more because of codex creep more than because someone rated based on rumors that are as of yet proven.


Always makes me giggle every time when people claim can't make judgement before release when they are proven wrong every single time

GW games are easy to figure out. It's literally 1st grader level to figure out best army lists and we get enough data well before release.

25 years, 25 years book strength is been known ahead release.


You can only make this claim, because you only remember the events that align with that. Assign a win percentage you think T'au will achieve right now and we'll grant plus or minus 2 percent from that target. Then we can check back after 6 weeks of tournaments with the book.

Do the same for GSC and Custodes while we're at it.

   
Made in fi
Rough Rider with Boomstick





Helsinki, Finland

I think that tau is heading in better direction than before, the overwatch mechanic in 8th edition was super broken (my tau gunline shot down mortarion in one overwatch phase). It's a good thing that Hammerhead has now more potential, previously riptides were auto-include, because none of the other options were match for them. Consider comparing the old Hammerhead from 8th edition, to let's say, astra military leman russ, or eldar fireprism, which both have double shooting in their main gun,, the Hammerhead has only that one shot.

https://firstblood84.wordpress.com/
Dark Angels (11000), Astra+AdMech+Assassin (7000), Tyranids (3000), Tau (3000), Legions of Nagash (2500) 
   
Made in us
Terrifying Doombull




 Daedalus81 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
drbored wrote:
 CKO wrote:
Through rumors alone, this codex will easily reach the original Admech tournament winning percentages.


These sorts of takes make me giggle a little.

Ah yes, before the rest of the codex, the point values, and other limiting or balancing factors, stat changes, and other things, we're going to go ahead and rate this codex.

If this Codex is top tier, it'll be more because of codex creep more than because someone rated based on rumors that are as of yet proven.


Always makes me giggle every time when people claim can't make judgement before release when they are proven wrong every single time

GW games are easy to figure out. It's literally 1st grader level to figure out best army lists and we get enough data well before release.

25 years, 25 years book strength is been known ahead release.


You can only make this claim, because you only remember the events that align with that. Assign a win percentage you think T'au will achieve right now and we'll grant plus or minus 2 percent from that target. Then we can check back after 6 weeks of tournaments with the book.

Do the same for GSC and Custodes while we're at it.


If you think judging the power of a book is a matter of assigning a specific tournament win percentage, you're missing tneva's point. And, honestly, most of the game.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Voss wrote:
If you think judging the power of a book is a matter of assigning a specific tournament win percentage, you're missing tneva's point. And, honestly, most of the game.


Why? The book is easy to figure out. If they can do better the DE then assign a percentage in that range. If not then better then which army?

   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Why? The book is easy to figure out. If they can do better the DE then assign a percentage in that range. If not then better then which army?


I cannot give you percentages but I will do you one better I will tell you what I would take.

2-3 large squads of Crisis Suits with 2xAirbusting Frags and 1 flamer so the combo works like this with Mont'ka. You will have 12d6 str 4 ap 2 dmg 1 shots that ignore line sight re-roll 1's to hit due to a commander and re-roll 1's to wound due to Mont'ka. They increased the range of AFP's by 6 and the ap by 1 and with Mont'ka you can advance and not worry about your bs. As you have these two units constantly getting closer eventually you will be in charge range/flamer range. If you charge the crisis suits you will have to deal with their overwatch which will have 6d6+12 str 4 ap 1 flamer hits if the wording of Mont'ka works, or you will get to use the flamers offensively.

Add a coldstar commander to give the crisis units auto-advance of 8 inches, I think that is a 40-inch threat range with the crisis units. Sprinkle in 60 point Kroot troop squads who have pregame movement for objectives. I would take Bork'an for the extra 4 inches on the AFP and the -1 str under 7 ability for durability if you can not stay out of the line of sight, or Farsight Enclave if you want the extra bs. Three Hammerheads because railguns are the best weapon in the game. Sprinkle in some form of marker lights and you are done.

"Accordingly, the Mont’ka Tactical Philosophy rewards decisive action in the first three turns, allowing its warriors to rapidly advance into enemy lines and blaze away with powerful close-range firepower."[I]

You get to play this army just like they envision!

I would literally kill whatever enemy unit is closest each turn while destroying any vehicle equivalent with the railguns that dare to get in the line of sight of my hammerheads. Attacking while out of line of sight is easier as it is 6 models instead of 9 and if I can't hide the weapons are 24 inches and with the coldstar I can move them 16 inches (I think they may have increased their movement also not sure). I would probably take a plasma rifle/fusion blaster squad to help the hammerheads.

This is what I think non-tau players should expect to face in competitive settings.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/01/19 23:18:00


   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut





 CKO wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Why? The book is easy to figure out. If they can do better the DE then assign a percentage in that range. If not then better then which army?


I cannot give you percentages but I will do you one better I will tell you what I would take.

2-3 large squads of Crisis Suits with 2xAirbusting Frags and 1 flamer so the combo works like this with Mont'ka. You will have 12d6 str 4 ap 2 dmg 1 shots that ignore line sight re-roll 1's to hit due to a commander and re-roll 1's to wound due to Mont'ka. They increased the range of AFP's by 6 and the ap by 1 and with Mont'ka you can advance and not worry about your bs. As you have these two units constantly getting closer eventually you will be in charge range/flamer range. If you charge the crisis suits you will have to deal with their overwatch which will have 6d6+12 str 4 ap 1 flamer hits if the wording of Mont'ka works, or you will get to use the flamers offensively.

Add a coldstar commander to give the crisis units auto-advance of 8 inches, I think that is a 40-inch threat range with the crisis units. Sprinkle in 60 point Kroot troop squads who have pregame movement for objectives. I would take Bork'an for the extra 4 inches on the AFP and the -1 str under 7 ability for durability if you can not stay out of the line of sight, or Farsight Enclave if you want the extra bs. Three Hammerheads because railguns are the best weapon in the game. Sprinkle in some form of marker lights and you are done.

"Accordingly, the Mont’ka Tactical Philosophy rewards decisive action in the first three turns, allowing its warriors to rapidly advance into enemy lines and blaze away with powerful close-range firepower."[I]

You get to play this army just like they envision!

I would literally kill whatever enemy unit is closest each turn while destroying any vehicle equivalent with the railguns that dare to get in the line of sight of my hammerheads. Attacking while out of line of sight is easier as it is 6 models instead of 9 and if I can't hide the weapons are 24 inches and with the coldstar I can move them 16 inches (I think they may have increased their movement also not sure). I would probably take a plasma rifle/fusion blaster squad to help the hammerheads.

This is what I think non-tau players should expect to face in competitive settings.


That's actually a great dive into the book and I appreciate the time you took to noodle through the book. That's a far better take than "Longstrike and 3 Hammerheads in T'au Sept".

Any markerlights? It seems like your Hammerheads will be big whiff machines without any support or rerolls.

Ten Scarabs with full support will nearly pull a whole battlesuit squad off the table ( less if you put max iridium ). The battlesuits should kill a single scarab with the AFPs. Which is the thing about AFPs - they still need to hit ( even if I hate the dynamic of shooting out of LOS without penalty ). I'm sure you can play cagey and hide behind cover and target backfield units and ignore scary stuff to win on objectives.

Converting 85 point units of T5 wracks will also be an uphill battle.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see how things shape up.

   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Does NOBODY read the community highlights properly?

Hammerheads have built-in hit reroll, full stop.
Technically only on 1 shot per turn, but with the railgun that's all it takes.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 BoomWolf wrote:
Does NOBODY read the community highlights properly?

Hammerheads have built-in hit reroll, full stop.
Technically only on 1 shot per turn, but with the railgun that's all it takes.


No, we're well aware. I'm talking T'au sept rerolls on top of markerlights. Two coin flips does not guarantee a hit.

   
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






 Daedalus81 wrote:
That's actually a great dive into the book and I appreciate the time you took to noodle through the book. That's a far better take than "Longstrike and 3 Hammerheads in T'au Sept".

Any marker lights? It seems like your Hammerheads will be big whiff machines without any support or rerolls.

Ten Scarabs with full support will nearly pull a whole battlesuit squad off the table ( less if you put max iridium ). The battlesuits should kill a single scarab with the AFPs. Which is the thing about AFPs - they still need to hit ( even if I hate the dynamic of shooting out of LOS without penalty ). I'm sure you can play cagey and hide behind cover and target backfield units and ignore scary stuff to win on objectives.

Converting 85 point units of T5 wracks will also be an uphill battle.

Anyway, I'll be interested to see how things shape up.


Thanks for the compliment, whenever I make a post I try to put some thought into it. The scary part about the Crisis Suit unit is that they get 1 support system for free! (or most of them are rumored to be free) I would give this unit either velocity trackers +1 to hit vs flyer units but most likely I will give them multi-tracker. Exploding 6's on units with 6+ models. That is correct a unit that puts out 42 shots a turn will have exploding sixes on big units. Remember it is a blast weapon also, so vs the wrack unit, it will be 72 exploding 6's str 4 shots bs 3 re-rolling 1's to hit and wound!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/01/20 21:48:41


   
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Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Is it true that Crisis Bodyguards can protect Longstrike in a Hammerhead?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
 
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