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Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Teesside

Put together a 150 pt Yu Jing list (Zhanshi sniper, Zhanshi LGL, Zhanshi Rifle, Oniwaban, Domaru, Celestial Guard LGL) for my friend who is into samurais and ninjas and is an experienced 40K player, and an Ariadnan list (Vet Kazak LT, Caledonian Volunteer with inferior infiltration, Zoauve with DEP and AP, Tank Hunter HMG, Chasseur, Metro LGL) for my girlfriend who has never played any minis wargames but is a skilled Eurogame player...

She comprehensively kicked his forces in the teeth, thanks to a combination of him exposing his units to her fire and his very unlucky dice rolls (charging a Domaru into CC with a Caledonian Volunteer, comprehensively failing to hit him, and getting tagged with a D-charge in return, was just his first bit of ill luck, on his 1st turn!). I think his 40K experience proved... unhelpful! He'd set everything up so it had good lines of fire, since he had the 1st turn. I did advise that this might be a bad idea.

When her 1st turn came, and with it, that Tank Hunter climbing to the top of a building that was slightly higher than her opponent's prone sniper... things continued to not go well.

He redeemed himself slightly by having his TO Camo ninja jump out from hiding and Nano template a couple of her minis, but she then got to shoot back, and he was down to below his retreat threshold.

I did aim to offer some tactical advice to both, as well as letting them know their options (neither of them knew the rules in great detail, though I went through the basics in an hour or so before play). I do now worry I've put my friend off playing again though... my usual demo games end in ignominious defeat for me, whether I try to play well or not!

I am starting to think that the HMG Tank Hunter may be too good to use in demo games.

My painting & modelling blog: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/699224.page

Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
http://serpentking.com/

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Devon, UK

The HMG Tankhunter is overpowering in intro games (especially with the full camo rules), I've even been removing Spitfires from my intro lists.

While the Domaru is OK, the Oniwaban requires too much knowledge of Infinity-specific rules and tactics to be a good choice for an intro game. :(

In case they're useful, here's my intro handouts (the Yu Jing and Nomad ones have since been updated to less lopsided forces):
http://wargamingtrader.com/dl/demo-handouts

And DarkEldar's 75pt trainer lists:
http://wargamingtrader.com/dl/darkeldars-75pt-infini
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant





Teesside

Thanks, IJW. I don't know those two factions that well myself yet (haven't actually played either of them yet, though I own the Ariadnans).

My painting & modelling blog: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/699224.page

Serpent King Games: Dragon Warriors Reborn!
http://serpentking.com/

 
   
Made in es
Zealous Shaolin




That was incredibly hilarious and enjoyable

It's what happens with all otaku fanboys that set their minds up on Yujing only because of the japanese factor with ninjas and samurais. They think they will be kicking ass with the technosamurais as if they were assault space marines and owning their enemies with metal gear like cyberninjas... then they realize their extremely expensive japanese cyberwarriors die easily under basic grunts firepower without making up for their points, letting them in a serious disavantage nearer to defeat. That happens because these kind of units require skilled players that know well the game's mechanics. This game has a step learning curve and they chose to start in hard mode.

Ian Sturrock wrote: I think his 40K experience proved... unhelpful!
.

Indeed, they are different games, furthemore, Infinity doesn't look like anything he has played until now. Your girl friend, knowing nothing about metagames and usual tactics in other games, tried to approach the fight from the same perspective a real unskilled and untrained soldier would do, being cautious and trying to achieve good firelanes.
On the other way it seems your friend played like in 40k, rushing the Domaru like if it was a space marine he went for a CC kill against a LI, which is an overkill, he'd better shot down the Caledonian Volunteer with the Domaru's chain rifle instead of spending extra orders and taking more risk engaging it.

Ian Sturrock wrote: I do now worry I've put my friend off playing again though... my usual demo games end in ignominious defeat for me, whether I try to play well or not!


What do you mean? that if your friend can't satisfy his ego by winning most of the times, a given game is not good enough for him? In that case clearly Infinity is not his game.
Tell him to accept the challenge, encourage him to prove he's a great tactician able to adapt to different game mechanics under variable conditions (different table set ups, scenarios, opposing armies, etc). If he's going to give up on Infinity only because he's been severily beaten playing like if he was playing 40k then a clear sign he's not such a great tactician but just a good 40k player that likes to play in easy mode. Tell him to change the chip and forget everything about 40k tactics and just try again but this time with the mentality he's a new player that must adapt to a new game system and that the proper use of real life military tactics and experience with FPS videogames will be more useful than current experience with 40k.


Ian Sturrock wrote:
I am starting to think that the HMG Tank Hunter may be too good to use in demo games.


Actually it is. A HMG is powerful, a camoed HMG is godly from a new player's point of view and very good form a experienced player. You should avoid heavy weapons like HMGs , Spitfires or sniper rifles in demos, but in case you want to add them then just give one to a basic grunt and give the same one to each group. In your demo forces switch the Zanshi sniper with a Zanshi HMG and the Tankhunter HMG with a Line Kazak HMG AP.
Also no matter how badly potential players want to field an Oniwaban, a normal ninja is better suited for a demo game and still is more than enough (TOs are powerful, keep that in mind). The Oniwaban requieres lots of skill.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/05/17 10:36:53


 
   
Made in us
Hacking Shang Jí






Chicago burbs

I don't think HMG itself is all that bad but in the hands of a camo troop it's too much. The same could be said for a sniper. When I've done demos I've also liked having a small mission to make them move and do stuff other than just kill each other. I did three tokens they needed to get into b2b and bring back to deployment zone. Doing that was worth 5pts. But each kill was only worth 1pt. You would think the guy who goes first would always win but it was not the case hardly at all.

   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Devon, UK

The HMG is bad in that the whole game becomes about whether the HMG model lives or dies and because it's so overwhelming in the active turn. Sniper Rifles are much easier to deal with, at least non-MULTI ones.
   
 
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