Gork and Mork are they real gods or the unified psyche of the Ork race?

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**Eiluj The Farseer**

In the books since the beginning of WH 40k, they have reference the Ork Gods Gork and Mork, however they have also stated that they may or may not be real... Do you think it is just a false belief, the subconscious psyche of the race as a whole, really worshiping Khorne (unlikely as they do not spawn demons or khorne beserkers)... Just curious what everyone else feelings are... cheers

**Eiluj The Farseer**

greg0985 wrote:
Melissia wrote:
greg0985 wrote:They may also be lesser warp entities...like weak Chaos Gods
Actually they're described as being utter monstrosities in the warp, shrugging off the attacks fo the chaos gods as if they were utterly invulnerable.

Gork and Mork are stronger than the chaos gods, to be sure. This is no surprise, considering that Orks outnumber every other sentient race in the galaxy

Hmmm..i dont know about that one man...sounds like Orky propaganda. Lore set up in several novels seems to indicate that the chaos powers are an immutable fact about the universe....and even goes as far as to hint that they are, and always have been, eternal. I know this directly contradicts some of the lore established in codices and WFB army books...but Dan Abnett's never led me wrong before I would assume that in the face of such powers, no other force stands a chance.

Edit** reason i posted this bit, is it seems to me that despite the number of orks-to-humans (or indeed any warp-sensitive race), if the gods ARE enternal, then they are far older then our universe, and far more powerful then anyone in our existance can fathom...or care to think. (thinking of things hinted to by the Omphalos Daemonium in Dead Sky Black Sun)

It is stated in rogue trader, Eldar Codices and Necron, That when the old ones built the webway which the Eldar perfected that the warp was a safe place as there had not been enough phychic sentient races to influence it, as time went on the warp took shape and became more material and dangerous... Now I do concede that the gods of chaos could have existed in some form before that (except for Slaanesh as we know where he/she came from to the Eldar's chagrin). We know that the Eldar gods all were consumed by Slaanesh except for Iris who is captive of papa nurgle and used to test new plagues as she can not die, the laughing god and in shards kaela mensha kaine....

I like the idea of the psyche being a warp incantation of the gods, cool idea

Automatically Appended Next Post:

greg0985 wrote:Personally i always take 'codex lore' with a grain of salt. Almost all the lore in the codices are examples of victories by the race in question. Also...some codex lore is written by Matt Ward...thus we both loose this argument in 6th ed. we all might be written out of existence.

MATT WARD NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

**Eiluj The Farseer**

It is funny since in the Eldar codex they talk about how he slowly came into being through the decadence of the Eldar and their pleasure seaking and that the psychic scream of her birth is what created the eye of terror and the death of most of the Eldar... So that contradicts what is said in the deamon codex.. Though I understand that time is not measured in the immaterium, you can not always exist without a birth.... In addition that would mean that all the Eldar gods would not be dead if they existed forever, but they were slain by Slaanesh except for Isha, the laughing God and Khaines shattered existence.... Cheers

**Eiluj The Farseer**

DeadlySquirrel wrote:
greg0985 wrote:In 6th ed. we all might be written out of existence.

Sig'd

Gork and Mork are generally accepted to be the most powerful things in existence. IIRC, when the Emperor felt their presence in the warp for the first time, he wet himself in fear or something. Many, however, believe that Gork/Mork is/are just different faces of Khorne in the same way Khaine may/may not be. Khorne IS the god of warfare, and the Orks do like to fight. So it is feasible that Orky warfare created said facet of Khorne.

I agree with that assesment, however why don't they spawn demons or have greater demons running around.... Or Ork Khorne beserkers...

The emperor we himself... hilarious.. would love to have seen that.. embarrasing

**Eiluj The Farseer**

riplikash wrote:I've always understood it like this:

Khorne does lay claim all loose psychic energy generated in relation to war and bloodshed, but the orks psychic energy does not fall into that category, nor can it be claimed by any of the Chaos gods.

The orks psychic energy is all 'controlled' (for a given definition) and tied up in the WAAAGH!, or which Gork and Mork are a part. That is why they are largely uncorruptable (at least spiritually) by chaos, and why humans are so vulnerable.

Human psychic energy is ALL loose and unfocused, they are easy prey for chaos.

Eldar energy was mostly focused at their gods. They were well defended, it wasn't until the end of their empire that their decadence generated enough loose energy to generate a chaos god. They fell because they lost their purpose and focus.

Orks psychic energy is almost entirely focused on being orky, on feeding the WAAAGH! field and thus Gork and Mork.

Khorne, and the other chaos gods, can mostly only claim loose, uncontrolled psychic energy. For the longest time Khaine was a separate entity from Khorne, the focus of the Eldar's war focused psychic energy. At the birth of Slaanesh Khorne claimed Khaine and his portfolio, and thus gained access to the Eldar.

As for the 'timeless' thing, while it may be true that time has no function in the warp, it does effect the ways in which the warp interacts with the materium. Before Slaanesh's birth he effectively didn't exist as far as the materium was concerned.

I like this explaination, I also like the idea of Gork and Mork kicking pus filled pappa Nurgle's but around the immaterium..

**Eiluj The Farseer**

Psienesis wrote:Orks don't care about your "logical explanations" and "if this is true, then it must follow that..." and all your other debates of philosophy and planar cosmology. Theology is not an Orky pursuit... Orkz is made for fightin' an' winnin', and dem Chaos Boyz, dey ain't proppa Orky, dey ain't proppa fresh an' blood.

True

**Eiluj The Farseer**

Yeah, why would they want to kill everything, then they have no one to krump

**Eiluj The Farseer**

Runna wrote:
Jayden63 wrote:For those having difficulty visualizing Gork and Mork vs other gods, you need just look at the recent Avengers movie where the Hulk confronts Loki.

I don't think I need to say who is whom in this example. lol.

ummmm loki? Just kidding

**Eiluj The Farseer**

hulk smash, er ?I mean Gork smash

**Eiluj The Farseer**

DarbNilbirts wrote:I see the diference between Khorn and G/Mork as part of the emotion that feeds them, Khorn isn't war per say, but hatred and rage that some races, especially humans, use to fuel a war. But for orks, violence is the purest expression of enjoyment, for them there is no cause or reason or justification to fight, it needs none. It is the goal, and one easily attainable for orks.
As far as M/Gork in the warp, I liken them to 2 school yard bullies that push the other gods down and kick sand in their face. Never going much farther because then they wouldn't be able to have fun anymore.

I really like your view, I think it makes perfect sense and I really like it....

salix_fatuus wrote:Of topic but this reminds me of the story of a Ork warboss who promis his boys the fight of their life and that good fighting is to be found in the eye of terror.

So they break trough the Cadia gate and land on the first planet they find. This planet is red and when they land they find that the entire planet is covered with blood and soon after they landed a bunch of Khorne daemons start to rice from the blood (turns out this is the planet of a Khorne daemon prince). The orks don't think for a second and directly charges the incoming horde of daemons and after a long and bloody fight the final ork is slain.
However the next day the ork find themself alive again and the battle once again rages on, and the next day, and the day after that.
And during all this the words of the warboss can be heard all over the battle field "Oi lads didn't I promise you the fight of our lives!"

Find this kinda "romantic" in a strange way, Orks and Khorne together in perfect harmony ^^

I agree to any extent that anything can be 'romantic' to Orks, I think this would be a perfect way to spend eternity for them! Their idea of heaven

or nirvana

**Eiluj The Farseer**

This thread has been so enjoyable.... I love this stuff

**Eiluj The Farseer**

Just like their technology, if they believe in it strongly enough it happens or it is..