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So, me and a group of guys have just got back into 40k, and wanted to start simple (we usually throw ourselves in for the whole hog then get bored a few weeks down the line). We've each got a battleforce and a HQ slot and nothing else. Current players stands at;

2x Space Marine (both Vanilla, but one will eventually go Dark Angels, one Space Wolves)
1x Eldar
1x Necron

The Necron player just so happens to be me. Sadly, my experience with New-Necrons is limited, and my experience with Old-Necrons is purely speculation, as I've never played either as or against them before. So, I'm coming to you guys for some much needed advice (also, I'm a horribly indecisive person, who deciding between my choices is stupidly difficult.. )

We're doing a "~1,000pts" play, depending on how much everybody can field (don't know how balanced the Battleforces are these days, and I'm the only one who physically owns one at the moment..)

Soo..

With the 20x Warriors I have a tricky decision to make; do I tarpit them into one 20-man unit, or do I split them into 2x 10-man units and load one into the Ghost Ark? Which have you found to be more effective?

I'm honestly more tempted by the tarpit, as the Doomsday Ark seems much more preferable to my playstyle; long-range smashing of the enemies lines while waiting for them to get close enough for the 20x Warriors to be of use. Against MEQ, does this hold its own? Or would the Ghost Ark be more effective with 10x Warriors in tow to ferry them around and unload on the enemy from within?

With the Immortals I'm even worse! The Assault 1 and movement-flexibility with the Tesla weapons seems tasty, but how effective are they really against Marines? Sure, there's those extra hits, but with only 5 of them throwing out attacks the benefits seem limited. But do I really want to load up on Rapid Fire weapons? Then again, Deathmarks seem pretty nice, especially with their marking the target...

And then comes the Overlord! Aaargh, I'm so perplexed!

Really just after advice for a new Necron player. I've been playing 40k on and off for ages (although 5e is new to me), so have little idea what currently stands as being effective and what isn't, really..


To clarify;

What I own;

1x Overlord,
1x Ark (unassembled)
20x Warriors
5x Scarabs
5x Immortals/Deathmarks (unassembled)


Next purchases are probably going to be set of Immortals/Deathmarks to bulk up the squad, a Canoptek Spyder (love those things) and a Catacomb Command Barge. Where would you go from the Battleforce? Wraith's will be a bit further down the line (or a bit sooner if the Eldar player goes Ranger-heavy like he's thinking..)

Any and all help greatly appreciated, both from Cron players, and people with the above-mentioned armies who have played Crons. And anybody, really..

What is your intention? Do you want to play competitively or just for fluff fun? That would make a difference in the lists.

In your shoes, I'd scrap the planned expansions and take wraiths and barges, in that order. Wraiths are very good and even better in smaller games where the opponent does not have the weight of the entire army concentrating on them, knowing that if he does not kill them, they will wreck his army. How many do you need? I'd say 12 or less on 1,000 pts. 12 would be about 500 pts, plus HQ and some troops, and maybe an annihilation barge will get you to the cutoff.

After you have the wraiths, buy a couple of kits of annihilation barges. Each kit can become a CCB or an AB. If you magnetize the tesla destructor and the scythe lord, you give yourself the flexibility to field any combination. Both types of barges are pretty good.

Alternatively, get a few spyders to run a scarab farm. At small point values, the farm tends to generate a lot of extra models because a higher percentage of the points is devoted to it. 6 spyders and 10 scarabs are 450 points. Two turns in, you will have 22 scarabs. Over the course of the game, you will likely generate about 24 bases total, which is 360 pts. This means your opponent will actually face 1,360 pts worth of models vs his 1,000. Scarabs are only really good against vehicles, but in very large numbers they can do damage to other things as well, or at least tarpit important units while the wraiths kill the rest of the opponent's army.

Unlike the Ork book, a unit that is larger than 10 warriors CAN take the ghost ark... they just can't get in it. You can use it like a piece of floating terrain (that just happens to have a few guns on it).

Echoing the vote for Wraiths and Barges.

Your army will be in need of some tactical support, so I think a good next purchase after those would be a box of Lychguard.
Not for the Lychguard themselves, but for the custom Crypteks you can make out of the box (you take some Warrior bodies, Praetorian heads and Rod of Covenant arms, stick 'em together with some of the decorative skirting that comes in the box, and TA-DA, you now have some pretty decent looking Crypteks. Use the bodies left over to make Sword & Shield Lychguard).
DO NOT underestimate how beneficial Crypteks can be (particularly Harbingers of Destruction).

I would HIGHLY recommend you not use the Doomsday Ark in low point games. It rarely works out well in anything under 2000 points (unless accompanied by a Stalker).
You would be well to turn it into a Ghost Ark to stick a small squad of guys in. If you've made some Crypteks, throw a Harbinger of Destruction (or two) in with them to make a handy little anti-tank gunboat.

Necrontyr40k wrote:What is your intention? Do you want to play competitively or just for fluff fun? That would make a difference in the lists.

In your shoes, I'd scrap the planned expansions and take wraiths and barges, in that order. Wraiths are very good and even better in smaller games where the opponent does not have the weight of the entire army concentrating on them, knowing that if he does not kill them, they will wreck his army. How many do you need? I'd say 12 or less on 1,000 pts. 12 would be about 500 pts, plus HQ and some troops, and maybe an annihilation barge will get you to the cutoff.

After you have the wraiths, buy a couple of kits of annihilation barges. Each kit can become a CCB or an AB. If you magnetize the tesla destructor and the scythe lord, you give yourself the flexibility to field any combination. Both types of barges are pretty good.

Alternatively, get a few spyders to run a scarab farm. At small point values, the farm tends to generate a lot of extra models because a higher percentage of the points is devoted to it. 6 spyders and 10 scarabs are 450 points. Two turns in, you will have 22 scarabs. Over the course of the game, you will likely generate about 24 bases total, which is 360 pts. This means your opponent will actually face 1,360 pts worth of models vs his 1,000. Scarabs are only really good against vehicles, but in very large numbers they can do damage to other things as well, or at least tarpit important units while the wraiths kill the rest of the opponent's army.

It's in no way competitive; don't get me wrong, winning is all fine and dandy, but it's just a few friends playing beer and pretzels games after work.

I'd read about magnetising the Barges so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll drop the Immortal/Deathmark purchases and starting stocking up on Wraiths; might take me a few months to get 12, but I can start fielding them in small chunks to get used to them, lure the enemy into a sense of self-confidence when they appear to die easily

I've read about scarab farm, but it's not the sort of army I wanted to be running. I'm going to be getting some Spyders/more Scarabs regardless, so when it does start to get more competitive, I can bust out the form to really clean up. I know the Eldar player will be going vehicle heavy further down the line, so I'll drop the steel bugs on him then when he least expects it.

So; wraith's it is! Thanks so much.

Anpu-adom wrote:Unlike the Ork book, a unit that is larger than 10 warriors CAN take the ghost ark... they just can't get in it. You can use it like a piece of floating terrain (that just happens to have a few guns on it).

Aha, and they'd still benefit from the Repair ability. With a res-ord Lord I can see that tarpit being quite nasty. How do Warriors hold up against Marines these days?

skoffs wrote:Echoing the vote for Wraiths and Barges.

Your army will be in need of some tactical support, so I think a good next purchase after those would be a box of Lychguard.
Not for the Lychguard themselves, but for the custom Crypteks you can make out of the box (you take some Warrior bodies, Praetorian heads and Rod of Covenant arms, stick 'em together with some of the decorative skirting that comes in the box, and TA-DA, you now have some pretty decent looking Crypteks. Use the bodies left over to make Sword & Shield Lychguard).
DO NOT underestimate how beneficial Crypteks can be (particularly Harbingers of Destruction).

I would HIGHLY recommend you not use the Doomsday Ark in low point games. It rarely works out well in anything under 2000 points (unless accompanied by a Stalker).
You would be well to turn it into a Ghost Ark to stick a small squad of guys in. If you've made some Crypteks, throw a Harbinger of Destruction (or two) in with them to make a handy little anti-tank gunboat.

Good idea with the Lychguard. I hate the look of the Crypteks if I'm honest. Is it best, then, to leave 4 or 5 of the Warriors from the Battleforce unbuilt and save them for when I purchase the Lychguard? I know that GW doesn't stock the small boxes of Warriors around here like they do with the other races; anyone know if this is something they intend to do further down the line?


Otherwise, it seems like the Ghost Ark certainly seems the way to go out of the Battleforce.

Anybody got preference over the Deathmarks/Immortals?

In turns of Overlord, is it better to give him Phaeron and stick him with the Deathmarks/Immortals until I get a CCB to swoop him around?

(This is keeping in mind that any other purchases will have to wait till pay-day in a few weeks or so, so I'm still limited to the Battleforce and one Overlord atm..)


Thanks guys for your help, really appreciated.

LordofRust wrote:

Necrontyr40k wrote:What is your intention? Do you want to play competitively or just for fluff fun? That would make a difference in the lists.


After you have the wraiths, buy a couple of kits of annihilation barges. Each kit can become a CCB or an AB. If you magnetize the tesla destructor and the scythe lord, you give yourself the flexibility to field any combination. Both types of barges are pretty good.

I'd read about magnetising the Barges so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll drop the Immortal/Deathmark purchases and starting stocking up on Wraiths; might take me a few months to get 12, but I can start fielding them in small chunks to get used to them, lure the enemy into a sense of self-confidence when they appear to die easily

skoffs wrote:Echoing the vote for Wraiths and Barges.

Your army will be in need of some tactical support, so I think a good next purchase after those would be a box of Lychguard.
Not for the Lychguard themselves, but for the custom Crypteks you can make out of the box (you take some Warrior bodies, Praetorian heads and Rod of Covenant arms, stick 'em together with some of the decorative skirting that comes in the box, and TA-DA, you now have some pretty decent looking Crypteks. Use the bodies left over to make Sword & Shield Lychguard).
DO NOT underestimate how beneficial Crypteks can be (particularly Harbingers of Destruction).

I would HIGHLY recommend you not use the Doomsday Ark in low point games. It rarely works out well in anything under 2000 points (unless accompanied by a Stalker).
You would be well to turn it into a Ghost Ark to stick a small squad of guys in. If you've made some Crypteks, throw a Harbinger of Destruction (or two) in with them to make a handy little anti-tank gunboat.

Good idea with the Lychguard. I hate the look of the Crypteks if I'm honest. Is it best, then, to leave 4 or 5 of the Warriors from the Battleforce unbuilt and save them for when I purchase the Lychguard? I know that GW doesn't stock the small boxes of Warriors around here like they do with the other races; anyone know if this is something they intend to do further down the line?

Anybody got preference over the Deathmarks/Immortals?

In turns of Overlord, is it better to give him Phaeron and stick him with the Deathmarks/Immortals until I get a CCB to swoop him around?

Welcome to the Necrons!

Couple of things from the above :

a)You don't need to magnetise CCB/Anni, the new kits just have pins that pop into place - not hugely stable, but they'll do.
b) Keep 5-6 warrior chests and legs, along with the deathmark heads (from the battleforce) to use to make the Crypteks.
c) You have to get at least one unit of deathmarks, just for fun! Also, if you keep some more of the warriors unmade, you can use warrior legs, warrior chests on the immortal backs (you just need to trilm the chest so it is flat at the back) from your next box and make 5 deathmarks and 5 Immortals from the 1 box.
d) With the overlord, you have so many options. In a blob, use him as Imotekh or Zahndrek and get some of those special rules working from the start. But yeah, you need to get CCB.

I just started with the battleforce and to be honest I would get the lychguard and a couple of Anni Barges and CCB first. Then you can make the crypteks and you'll have more fun units to play with. Not putting down the wraiths at all - I'm planning on getting some (but at 50 pounds for 3 in Oz - that is going to take a while) its just that I find the CCB/Anni more fun to play.

Over to you!

MarkCron wrote:Welcome to the Necrons!

Couple of things from the above :

a)You don't need to magnetise CCB/Anni, the new kits just have pins that pop into place - not hugely stable, but they'll do.
b) Keep 5-6 warrior chests and legs, along with the deathmark heads (from the battleforce) to use to make the Crypteks.
c) You have to get at least one unit of deathmarks, just for fun! Also, if you keep some more of the warriors unmade, you can use warrior legs, warrior chests on the immortal backs (you just need to trilm the chest so it is flat at the back) from your next box and make 5 deathmarks and 5 Immortals from the 1 box.
d) With the overlord, you have so many options. In a blob, use him as Imotekh or Zahndrek and get some of those special rules working from the start. But yeah, you need to get CCB.

I just started with the battleforce and to be honest I would get the lychguard and a couple of Anni Barges and CCB first. Then you can make the crypteks and you'll have more fun units to play with. Not putting down the wraiths at all - I'm planning on getting some (but at 50 pounds for 3 in Oz - that is going to take a while) its just that I find the CCB/Anni more fun to play.

Over to you!

(c) is a marvellous idea! If I only make up 10 of the Warriors from the Battleforce, I'll have 5 left over to make some Crypteks, can use parts from the other spare 5 for Immortals, and can assemble the Deathmarks fresh from, the box, leaving me with 10 Warriors (enough for the Ghost Ark), 5 Immortals (now to decide between Gauss and Tesla) and 5 Deathmarks (assuming, of course, that I've understood you; my kit-bashing skills aren't great..)

This means I can skip buying another box of Immortals/Deathmarks (I wanted a small squad of each to test them out) and get something else (the Lychguard, probably, for Cryptek loveliness)

Or, I could have gotten this all wrong

Or, I may have gotten it wrong..

The key thing is the heads, backs, legs and chests. so, I'll just list what you may want to do with those:

Warriors: 20 heads, backs legs and chests.
Immortals/Deathmarks : 5 Immortal heads, 5 deathmark heads, 5 legs, 5 chests

so you make 10 warriors leaving you 10 warrior legs and chests.
you make 5 deathmarks out of the box, using the legs and chests (these are a bit bulkier)
you make 5 immortals using the immortal heads, immortal backs (with tesla) warrior chests and warrior legs. This is where you need trim the back of the warrior chests to make them flat so they fit on the immortal backs.

you now have 5 warrior legs and chests left over.

Buy a box of lychguard - make sword and board lychguard out of the box. Then use warrior chests and legs on praetorian backs to make Crypteks. However, you don't have any heads (because you made the deathmarks). So, you can either use Praetorian heads, or buy yourself another box of immortals/deathmarks to get the deathmark heads. Actually if you buy another box of warriors at the same time, you can use the same trick and give yourself 5 more deathmarks and immortals (but this time, put Praetorian heads on the deathmarks). That's what I did.

If you want, have a look at my profile page cos I just posted some pics (what you are doing is what I did).

if you don't want your scarabs I'll have them!

hth

MarkCron wrote:Or, I may have gotten it wrong..

The key thing is the heads, backs, legs and chests. so, I'll just list what you may want to do with those:

Warriors: 20 heads, backs legs and chests.
Immortals/Deathmarks : 5 Immortal heads, 5 deathmark heads, 5 legs, 5 chests

so you make 10 warriors leaving you 10 warrior legs and chests.
you make 5 deathmarks out of the box, using the legs and chests (these are a bit bulkier)
you make 5 immortals using the immortal heads, immortal backs (with tesla) warrior chests and warrior legs. This is where you need trim the back of the warrior chests to make them flat so they fit on the immortal backs.

you now have 5 warrior legs and chests left over.

Buy a box of lychguard - make sword and board lychguard out of the box. Then use warrior chests and legs on praetorian backs to make Crypteks. However, you don't have any heads (because you made the deathmarks). So, you can either use Praetorian heads, or buy yourself another box of immortals/deathmarks to get the deathmark heads. Actually if you buy another box of warriors at the same time, you can use the same trick and give yourself 5 more deathmarks and immortals (but this time, put Praetorian heads on the deathmarks). That's what I did.

If you want, have a look at my profile page cos I just posted some pics (what you are doing is what I did).

if you don't want your scarabs I'll have them!

hth

You are a glorious, glorious man, and I thank you immensely. This will be the new starting point for my Battleforce, and the step-by-step really clarifies everything (as do the marvellous pictures on your page; kudos!) I can have a tweak and a play and make something unique and interesting-looking for my army now (and, as their theme is more akin to scavengers, this makes perfect sense!)

Rest assured, if I have any spare scarabs, they're going your way!

Awwwww, shucks

Happy to help

One more tip. If you make more immortals, keep using warrior legs on them. That will make the squad consistent.

MarkCron wrote:Keep 5-6 warrior chests and legs, along with the deathmark heads (from the battleforce) to use to make the Crypteks.

I wouldn't even use the Deathmark heads! You're going to have 5 perfectly good Praetorian heads sitting around from the Lychguard box, you might as well use those (the orb in the middle of their forehead looks rather Cryptek-ish enough).

That way, using the Battleforce box and 1 Lychguard box, with some clever manipulation of plastics you can make:
5 Crypteks (Praetorian heads, arms & decorative skirting, Warrior legs & torso)
5 Lychguard (Lychguard heads, torso & legs, sword & shield arms)
5 Deathmarks (Deathmark heads & guns, Warrior legs & torso)
5 Immortals (Immortal heads, legs, torso, and guns)
10 Warriors

Excellent idea. Then you can buy a couple of CCB sooner!

Btw, the CCB kits include an overlord so don't buy that separately.

alternatively, if you've already picked up an Overlord, you can use the ones that came with your Barges as regular Lords (they've got Warscythes and ResOrbs and everything!)
That's how I'm playing mine

Hmmm. Good thought.

/off to buy more barges/

I think 3 overlords is a good number, two with orbs and 1 without. That gives you Imotekh, zandrekh and Obyron or similar combo. Also this is an easy way of increasing points with a small no of models.

Btw, to differentiate the overlords that come with the barge you can swap the staff arm with one out of the praetorian box, or just cut the arm above the elbow and adjust the angle of the staff. I found having the staff straight up worked ok and you can still get him in the barge.

MarkCron wrote:Awwwww, shucks

Happy to help

One more tip. If you make more immortals, keep using warrior legs on them. That will make the squad consistent.

The theme behind the army is scrap, sorta like Junkyard Necrons, so consistency isn't my biggest concern I've been chipping pieces of, trimming things down unnecessarily, and will weather parts when painting to give them the look of scavenger 'Crons who have been kicked out of their tomb and need to repair.

skoffs wrote:

MarkCron wrote:Keep 5-6 warrior chests and legs, along with the deathmark heads (from the battleforce) to use to make the Crypteks.

I wouldn't even use the Deathmark heads! You're going to have 5 perfectly good Praetorian heads sitting around from the Lychguard box, you might as well use those (the orb in the middle of their forehead looks rather Cryptek-ish enough).

That way, using the Battleforce box and 1 Lychguard box, with some clever manipulation of plastics you can make:
5 Crypteks (Praetorian heads, arms & decorative skirting, Warrior legs & torso)
5 Lychguard (Lychguard heads, torso & legs, sword & shield arms)
5 Deathmarks (Deathmark heads & guns, Warrior legs & torso)
5 Immortals (Immortal heads, legs, torso, and guns)
10 Warriors

I ended up using the Praetorian heads for the Lychguard, and the Lychguard heads for the Crypteks (I think they looked more regal with those little crown-plume-things on top). With a bit of customisation, I've managed to get a different weapon on each, and a different set of customisation's on each (one with the back-globe, one with globe-and-spine, one with just-spine, one with a load of robe parts, and one bare) so they're unique and 'scrappy' enough.

The Immortals looks excellent with the Warrior bodies and legs, frankly (more Warriors+, which is how I've always imagined them). Infact, everything looks cool, thanks guys.

skoffs wrote:alternatively, if you've already picked up an Overlord, you can use the ones that came with your Barges as regular Lords (they've got Warscythes and ResOrbs and everything!)
That's how I'm playing mine

CCB and Wraith's seem to be my next purchase in a few weeks (once I've got these painted, and finished building the Ghost Ark). I intend to get a Stalker down the line, simply because I love the design of the model...

MarkCron wrote:Hmmm. Good thought.

/off to buy more barges/

I think 3 overlords is a good number, two with orbs and 1 without. That gives you Imotekh, zandrekh and Obyron or similar combo. Also this is an easy way of increasing points with a small no of models.

Btw, to differentiate the overlords that come with the barge you can swap the staff arm with one out of the praetorian box, or just cut the arm above the elbow and adjust the angle of the staff. I found having the staff straight up worked ok and you can still get him in the barge.

Seems like a valid idea. After changing the staff's for the Crypteks, I'm in the mood for some kitbash/modelling, so I'll have a tweak and see what I can come up with.



Otherwise;

It seems we're having a 500pt brawl to start getting into things, only using what we have built until we start getting more and properly planning games. Current list;

Necron Overlord - 90
Phaeron - 20
110

Necron Warriors x7 - 91
Ghost Ark - 115
206

Immortals x5 - 85
Tesla Carbines - 0
85

Deathmarks x5 - 95
95

Total 496


How would this hold up against similar Battleforce army lists? (Namely, 1x Eldar, 1x Space Marine Vanilla) I can see a lack of AP/vehicle defence already, but aside from rushing a Lord w/ Warscythe instead of Phaeron, my options are limited.. Better to take a few Crypteks?

Hi Lord, good to hear you are having fun!

Re your list, you're main problem vs the space marines is going to be they have some nasty weapons in the standard tac squad. Not sure about the Eldar battleforce. I reckon a cryptek would help, particularly for the deathmarks.

A couple of the lists I use are below, see if anything inspires you.

FunCron 500pt
**HQ**
Overlord (Warscythe,MSS,Orb,SW) 160
Royal Court (115)
Despairtek (Abyssal,VoD)
Destructek (1x, 1x solar pulse)

**Elite**
Deathmark x 5 (95) (DespairTek)
**Troop**
Warrior x5 (65) (Destructek)
Warrior x5 (65) (Overlord)

Basically, have fun with the deathmarks in the back field (don't forget to shoot that abyssal staff!! - it wounds on 2+ against the marked target too!), be aggressive with the overlord warriors - they can take some CC with the lord - and leave the AT unit at the back to pick stuff off.

or, for when you have a CCB

FunCron 500 pt
**HQ**
Anrakyr on CCB (245)
Royal Court 1X destructek (lance, pulse) (55)

**Troop**
6XWarrior (78) (destructek here)
7XPyrrhian Eternal (immortal) (119)

This one is primarily to have fun with Anrakyr. Once he is out of his barge the game will go downhill, but what the hell. You could change the DestruckTek for DespairTek and drop that in the Eternals cos at 500pts Anrakyr on a barge should be enough AT!

Also, scarabs are nasty at 500 points.

Have fun - may the dice roll (unless it is a morale test!)