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Ok, so I know that an overlord with a scythe on a CCB is awesome, but I just cant get it to work. I've played 4 games with one and in those 5 games I get 0-1 sweep attacks, then the CCB is destroyed, usually in melee and immobilised but since its moving flat out its wrecked. What am I doing wrong?

Remember that while this is heavily discussed on both sides, the Symbiotic Repair rule can be used to save your Barge from being wrecked by Flat Out Immobolised result. If it's wrecked, you still have a mean combat monster with a S7 Warscythe, Mindshackle Scarabs (if you don't take these, you're doing it wrong) and a Semp. Weave to ensure he survives a turn or two. Alternatively the problem may be that the rest of your army is slow, he can easily focus his fire on the single Barge while the rest of your army advances, so try taking two Barges instead, backed up by other faster choices such as Wraiths, Scarabs and Doom/Night Scythes.

It's all in army composition.... can we see an example of the list you run? and maybe an example of how you use him within the list?

Exalted Pariah wrote:Ok, so I know that an overlord with a scythe on a CCB is awesome, but I just cant get it to work. I've played 4 games with one and in those 5 games I get 0-1 sweep attacks, then the CCB is destroyed, usually in melee and immobilised but since its moving flat out its wrecked. What am I doing wrong?

It's only wrecked from a Flat out result, if it is immobilized in your turn, not your opponents.


They must also be getting very lucky, since they need 6's to hit in melee, if you moved flat out, plus whatever is needed to pen the Rear 11.

How Many Barges are you running as well? What is doing this to you?

wait... 0-1 sweeps, wrecked in melee... i don't even...

These things are fire magnets. But they're also incredibly tough targets, AV13 and 4+ flat-out cover save, and as Sasori says, 6+ to hit in melee. Plus, you can just move up over something and move right back behind terrain or troops. Or at least give yourself some separation. You're not moving the barge into contact and leaving it there, are you? You can continue moving with a sweeping attack. confused...

Thanks sasori, thats been half the reason it wrecks. I only run one, since I've been buying troops, stalker and tomb blades recently. Its been destroyed by a dreadnaught that I attempted to sweep, his DCCW punched it and immobilised it(which I counted as wrecked, I now see that is incorrect). Another time blood angel terminators with whatever ability makes them jump infantry wrecked it(I'd only moved 16-18" so I could turn around and help my army which was being assaulted by his. A CCS melta bombed it(admittitly, I'd only move 12" so I could fire, and my overlord killed them all)

And most recently against black templar, I moved 24" to get the cover saved, which stopped his landraiders' melta, then I moved 24" over it, only stunned it, but was about 4" behind it, his terminators(who were on the side of the land raider) assualted it, and blew it up. I measured afterwards to see what I could've done different and found no answer. The location was 12" away from his terminators, but after landing behind the raider I was still within 12" of them....

Sasori wrote:

Exalted Pariah wrote:Ok, so I know that an overlord with a scythe on a CCB is awesome, but I just cant get it to work. I've played 4 games with one and in those 5 games I get 0-1 sweep attacks, then the CCB is destroyed, usually in melee and immobilised but since its moving flat out its wrecked. What am I doing wrong?

It's only wrecked from a Flat out result, if it is immobilized in your turn, not your opponents.

I think that Skimmers Moving Fast are still wrecked if they get are immobilized by enemy shooting/cc. However, the occupants CAN get out, which they cannot if you immobilize/wreck yourself in your own turn.

Gornall wrote:I think that Skimmers Moving Fast are still wrecked if they get are immobilized by enemy shooting/cc. However, the occupants CAN get out, which they cannot if you immobilize/wreck yourself in your own turn.

There's a few pages on this topic in YMDC arguing that you get to apply Symbiotic Repair before the immobilized result "takes".

--CCB and ovelord is great for its points. However you can't just send it after 250 points of landraider and another 200 points of terminators and expect it to survive. Sounds like its the CCB alone vs your enemies army. No wraiths, veiling immortals another ccb/lord or other more aggressive threats to combo with it? Of course its gonna do poorly.
--Two are pretty much always better then one and/or something else operating in the same manner (wraiths, scarabs, etc) is gonna really help. Even if it dies that means less going at these other units, where as currently its just simple target priority.
--If you just have one and its running around unsupported then its really just a distraction. Make sure your opponent has to do something he doesnt want to do to deal with it (moving stuff back and away from your forces, out of scoring position, etc etc). Simply the threat of the CCB and lord can be a deterrent. If terrain is available hide it centrally and ensure anyone coming to end it is putting itself in threat range of your other units.


Hope that helps.

What he said.

A real good synergy unit for CCB's that's usually available is a scarab unit. Disposable, good AT threat, works well if the CCB immobilizes a target (goes immediately to auto-hit), can tarpit and die for the cause if necessary, pretty decent range on a charge. And did I mention disposable?

Thank you winterman, you're right. I've been trying to snipe his LR early so I have more time to shoot his termies and assult squad(BT with chainswords and bolt pistols) A distraction is definatly a better option, what should I support him with?(just scarabs? any other ideas? I only have 6 scarabs...)

Anything fast and that has a high threat level would be appropriate. Wraiths and Doom Scythes are my personal favourites.

Would running scarabs and the CCB together be a good idea, or do the scarabs slow the CCB down too much?

Ancestral Hamster wrote:Would running scarabs and the CCB together be a good idea, or do the scarabs slow the CCB down too much?

They'll slow the CCB down a bit, depends on how far you can advance scarabs first turn. Scarabs have some range on them, you can assault into an opponent's Pitched Battle deployment zone on the first turn if you have Spyder support. But nothing can really keep up with a CCB. Need to be a little patient with it.

Randall Turner wrote:

Ancestral Hamster wrote:Would running scarabs and the CCB together be a good idea, or do the scarabs slow the CCB down too much?

They'll slow the CCB down a bit, depends on how far you can advance scarabs first turn. Scarabs have some range on them, you can assault into an opponent's Pitched Battle deployment zone on the first turn if you have Spyder support. But nothing can really keep up with a CCB. Need to be a little patient with it.

Okay, thanks. Haven't played yet as I'm building the army through eBay purchases, but am trying to get a feel for it. Have the Tomb Spyders, but haven't won a scarabs auction yet.

Good advice above.

I think the overall army is critical to CCB success. Make sure you time your approach and attacks, so that the opponent has to respond to multiple threats at the same time. If you just zoom forward and leave everything else behind in the dust, the CCB will eat too much fire. It is best to make use of terrain to block LOS to it until it is time to strike at the same time with wraiths and scarabs.

I partially agree. Yes, if you zoom forward you can outpace the rest of the attacks, but at the same time being overly cautious will negate the purpose of the barge in the first place.

I find I get better synergy by playing aggressively with the CCB as the opponent is so concerned about it they concentrate fire or alter their movement plans. either way, I'm good with that.

When the CCB does get taken down, if it isn't close to the backfield or a pile of juicy units I find the overlord gets toasted before he can do anything useful. So, again playing aggressively gets the CCB killed a turn earlier, but I'd rather have the overlord alone with a choice of targets than having to walk alone to a target.

@Necrontyr is correct that the rest of the army needs to support. I use D&D squads and often S&B Lychguard around the time the CCB hits.

The other thing I tend to do is find points for a phase shifter to deep the overlord alive when he is out of the barge. Generally when he comes down there is a lot of nasty stuff around!

Sounds like you're in a similar position to me, OP. I have one CCB and a fairly slow army (shooty + scarabs). The only thing that can even partly keep up with the CCB is my Ghost Ark. And my CCb always dies pretty early on too.

I am going to try holding it back for a couple of turns. Let my main army move forward to the point where everything is a potential threat, then jump my CCB forward or round a flank. I'm hoping that doing this, rather than sending the CCB out by itself Rambo/COD style will make it a: survive longer and b: support my army better.

Praxiss wrote:Sounds like you're in a similar position to me, OP. I have one CCB and a fairly slow army (shooty + scarabs). The only thing that can even partly keep up with the CCB is my Ghost Ark. And my CCb always dies pretty early on too.

I am going to try holding it back for a couple of turns. Let my main army move forward to the point where everything is a potential threat, then jump my CCB forward or round a flank. I'm hoping that doing this, rather than sending the CCB out by itself Rambo/COD style will make it a: survive longer and b: support my army better.

What support do you see the CCB providing to your army?

In my games the primary objective of the CCB and the overlord in it is purely to open mech (okay, blowing it up is good too ). Imho I'd rather do that asap, because the longer the opponent is walking the more shots I get and the easier it is to set up to receive them . Sending it out Rambo style doesn't have to involve leaving it by itself in the middle of the board in LOS and without cover.

Secondary role : distraction - yep shoot at the CCB - because even if they get the overlord out of it, then they have to deal with the overlord and they aren't shooting at the wraiths/scarabs/whatever.

Necrontyr is right. As with any unit, you need to ensure that the army list synergises with it. imho, if you are trying to hide it until turn 3, it may not be the unit that best does what you want. It's a lot of points to have sitting around that long.

my 2c

Hmm, it looks like a CCb isn't a great mesh with a primarily shooty army then. mostly becasue there is not a lot that can keep up with it.

i guess it depends on the table as well. A table with lots of cover is definately a bonus for a CCB.

In a primarily shooty army (say zahndrek with a couple of stalkers as a base, or big warrior blobs) it may not synergise because your hq may work better out of the barge eg zahndrek with a blob of warriors or imo.

It may work if you view it as disposable (a really expensive AT D&D unit) but you'd have to be comfortable playing it like that.

One way to see whether it works is to compare it to an anni barge. CCB is faster, and kills tanks with a scythe, but is expensive. Anni doesn't kill tanks as effectively but is not bad, is way cheaper and can move and shoot.

So, if you don't need a fast vehicle that kills tanks, don't take a CCB.