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Co-axial weapons must fire on the same target the main gun fires at.

LRBT, Vanquisher may take the following co-axial weapons:
Storm bolter/heavy stubber: 10pts

Demolisher may take:
Grenade launcher: 10 pts
Meltagun: 10pts

Exterminator/punisher may take:
Mortar: 10 pts
Multilaser: 15 pts

Eradicator/Executioner may take:
Multilaser or plasmagun: 15 pts

WTF is a coaxial mortar?

What purpose would these serve beyond current pintle mounted and sponson weapons?

Not to mention that many of these do not fit in co-axial role, fluff wise. Most tank cannons will be firing at an angle (shallow compared to artillery, but not straight on unless the target was close), with the Punisher and Exterminator being exceptions, this would make direct fire weapons unable to fire at the same target. Likewise, a couple of those suggested weapons need to be fired at an angle which wouldn't fit with the direct fire tanks, and likely need a different angle than the cannons anyway.

In apoc, Coaxial guns primarily are there to grant twinlinking without needing a second gun. Paradoxically, because the coaxial gun can still fire, it's more effective than slapping on a second gun of the same type. Try and make sense of that.

Well its not necessarily more effective. How often is the heavy stubber going to be effective against what you want a vanquisher to hurt?

Its effective because it makes it Twin-Linked.

motyak wrote:Well its not necessarily more effective. How often is the heavy stubber going to be effective against what you want a vanquisher to hurt?

The fact that doubling up a gun turns the second gun into a glorified laser pointer while a coaxial heavy stubber is still able to roll it's own dice doesn't make much sense.

It turns it into a guaranteed twin-link, while bad luck with the stubber can mean you aren't twin-linked, can't it? Don't you have to hit first? I know its a small difference, but it is there.

motyak wrote:It turns it into a guaranteed twin-link, while bad luck with the stubber can mean you aren't twin-linked, can't it? Don't you have to hit first? I know its a small difference, but it is there.

With three shots, even an ork is going to hit.

Still, guaranteed is better than possibility, no matter how likely it is. And on a vanquisher, the only time it'll get any use is once all the enemy's armour is destroyed, which will take quite a while.

And, if gives a great opportunity to check range on the main weapon, ie premeasuring?

I don't get how it gives an opportunity to check range by premeasuring...can you explain?

motyak wrote:I don't get how it gives an opportunity to check range by premeasuring...can you explain?

You can fire the coaxial gun first, and as you can measure for if it's in range, it will let you tell how far off the target for the main gun is. At least that's what I think his logic is.

I don't see the benefit. You have to fire them at the same target anyway, and if the coaxial is in range, then the vanquisher battle cannon is automatically in range...

motyak wrote:I don't see the benefit. You have to fire them at the same target anyway, and if the coaxial is in range, then the vanquisher battle cannon is automatically in range...

But you don't have to fire them simultaneously. You can fire at something with the heavy stubber even if it's clearly out of range, then you measure the range and bam, you now know if it's in range for the vanquisher.

But you are stuck firing at the same target, whether or not the heavy stubber is in range. So yes, you can fire with the heavy stubber when you think it is in/out of range, but no matter what you are firing at the same target with the vanquisher cannon, so it doesn't matter in the end.

The point of the co-axial rule is to allow you to fire an ordnance weapon more accurately by using what amounts to tracer rounds from a machine gun to plot the line of fire. Co-axial weapons tend to be shorter-ranged than the main weapon to make firing directly with the ordnance weapon instead of arcing the shot more plausible; I'd advise limiting co-axial weapons to heavy bolters or heavy stubbers if they were introduced onto regular Leman Russes at all. I'm not sure where in the turret architecture there's space to include a co-axial weapon...

I really only see this being useful in the fluff, counting as a pintle mounted weapon being instead mounted as coaxial weapon and viewed Battlefield 3 style.

In the Armored Battlegroup list, co-axial weapons make the main-gun twin-linked if they hit their target. They're limited to a Heavy Stubber or Storm Bolter on the Vanquisher, and a Storm Bolter on the Conqueror.

That said, a co-axial mortar isn't really unheard of (though I wouldn't call it co-axial). The Israeli Merkava series has a 60mm breach-loaded mortar that can be fired and reloaded from within the turret.

EDIT:

I want an Exterminator with a co-axial autocannon.

In apoc, didn't a hit wiht the co-axial weapon mean the gun it was attached to didn't scatter?

Unit1126PLL wrote:In the Armored Battlegroup list, co-axial weapons make the main-gun twin-linked if they hit their target. They're limited to a Heavy Stubber or Storm Bolter on the Vanquisher, and a Storm Bolter on the Conqueror.

That said, a co-axial mortar isn't really unheard of (though I wouldn't call it co-axial). The Israeli Merkava series has a 60mm breach-loaded mortar that can be fired and reloaded from within the turret.

EDIT:

I want an Exterminator with a co-axial autocannon.

No such thing as too many autocannons.

motyak wrote:But you are stuck firing at the same target, whether or not the heavy stubber is in range. So yes, you can fire with the heavy stubber when you think it is in/out of range, but no matter what you are firing at the same target with the vanquisher cannon, so it doesn't matter in the end.

You're right. The main weapon has to shoot anyway, knowing the range isn't an advantage.

The DKOK seige list on FW downloads page has rules for a LR with a co-axial gun. Conquer i think it is.

Colin747 wrote:The DKOK seige list on FW downloads page has rules for a LR with a co-axial gun. Conquer i think it is.

It's small blast template though so even twin-linked it's pretty pathetic.

I like the idea as LR are often depicted as having co-ax weapons in the books. Indeed in one book they have co-ax auto cannons.

I don't think any russes aside from the Conqueror had room for a co-axial weapon on the turret.