Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'm starting an empire army and I want to know which state troops to base it around, its basically a toss up between halberds and spears.

After playing brets a lot, the idea of a defensive force appeals to me, so I'll probably use holding blocks with some hammer units and guns

Halbards, always Halbards.

Str4 can actually kill something, the extra rank of attacks from Spears doesn't make up for that.

I agree, Halberds if'n you want to kill things.


If you want to play more defensive, though, Swordsmen aren't a too bad deal due to the extra armor and the Parry save. Just expect them to kill much in return.

100% on the halberds. But to be fair iv tried all the state troops and they never do anything cos they all suck. Halberds do make the best detachments tho as they usually don't get attacked that much because the opponent is more scared of the 40 greatswords with a warrior priest and a captain pounding on them. So to sum up use 40 greatswords with a warrior priest( for the re rolls to hit) and a captain with bsb( ld tests on 3d6 with re roll) with two detachments of 20 halberds

Except that still doesn't give you Core, Greatsword detachments count for Special.

So unless you were planning on a Knight army you will need State Troops of some kind.

I use a big block of halberdiers to dish out the pain. My own guys will die in droves but normally do pretty well in a war of attrition. If I then boost them with a warrior priest, for hatred and those brilliantly cheap spells, and hammer the enemy unit with my artillery, I can normally score a win with this unit.

My second block of infantry I recently switched from swordsmen to spearmen. The WS 4 and parry save was nice, when it cost one extra point per model. Now that it costs 2 points it's plainly ridiculous. I mean, for 200 points I can have 40 spearmen, which is enough ranks to take one hell of a pounding and remain steadfast for a fair while, or I can have 28 spearmen, and maybe get a benefit from WS 4, and save 1/6 of them with parry saves. Against most enemies they will lose steadfast way quicker than the bigger spearmen unit.

And when you consider the best way to keep these guys alive comes from the ward save offered by the warrior priests, that overrides the swordsmen's own save, then I just can't make the case for swordsmen anymore.

First get your handgunners in, then talk about spears and halberds.

Platuan4th wrote:If you want to play more defensive, though, Swordsmen aren't a too bad deal due to the extra armor and the Parry save. Just expect them to kill much in return.

Yes, they are. Spearmen with a Warrior Priest are better defensively. Or take a Luminark if you want a guaranteed ward save.

Orlanth wrote:First get your handgunners in, then talk about spears and halberds.

Ugh, no. Handgunners are way too expensive. Unless you're doing an all-shooting list, leave them at home.

biccat wrote:Ugh, no. Handgunners are way too expensive. Unless you're doing an all-shooting list, leave them at home.

With enough boosts from a regimental unit, Empire missile troops can still give decent service. They probably won't find much use in competitive lists (they absolutely cannot match the killing power of a hellblaster, but then not much can) but with Warrior Priest boosts and depending on how you rule on steadfast being transferred to the new unit, they've got a lot more staying power in combat.

biccat wrote:

Orlanth wrote:First get your handgunners in, then talk about spears and halberds.

Ugh, no. Handgunners are way too expensive. Unless you're doing an all-shooting list, leave them at home.

Because cannon are so essential to your success you are always having enough of a shooting army to take handgunners. Unless you want a 'gimic' army of flaggelants and knights.

sebster wrote:With enough boosts from a regimental unit, Empire missile troops can still give decent service.

Then take Archers. Not only are they cheaper, but they're skirmishers.

Grey Templar wrote:Except that still doesn't give you Core, Greatsword detachments count for Special.

So unless you were planning on a Knight army you will need State Troops of some kind.

That's the point I was making. State troops are useless so bring inner knights to make the core. With the best armour possible and ws and str 4 theyll do alot more then the state troops

biccat wrote:Ugh, no. Handgunners are way too expensive. Unless you're doing an all-shooting list, leave them at home.

How are they too expensive, they got 1ppm cheaper than the last book for the exact same model, makes them even better than ever. A couple of 10x2 units are good for softening up harder targets (Black Orcs, Bestigors, etc) or taking out hard-hitting MSU (Witch Elves, Swordmasters).

Krellnus wrote:How are they too expensive, they got 1ppm cheaper than the last book for the exact same model, makes them even better than ever. A couple of 10x2 units are good for softening up harder targets (Black Orcs, Bestigors, etc) or taking out hard-hitting MSU (Witch Elves, Swordmasters).

Handgunners used to cost 8 points per model, now they cost 9 points per model.

And Crossbows still do their job better...

Krellnus wrote:How are they too expensive, they got 1ppm cheaper than the last book for the exact same model

Might want to check your math on that.

So basically halberds and lots of them then? That seems to be the vibe I'm getting here anyway

EmilCrane wrote:So basically halberds and lots of them then? That seems to be the vibe I'm getting here anyway

Spearmen aren't that much less deadly, and they're a point cheaper and so better in the role of meatshield.

But no matter what you take, take lots of them. Moderate size Empire infantry units tend to suck.

sebster wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:So basically halberds and lots of them then? That seems to be the vibe I'm getting here anyway

Spearmen aren't that much less deadly, and they're a point cheaper and so better in the role of meatshield.

But no matter what you take, take lots of them. Moderate size Empire infantry units tend to suck.

I was actually considering spearmen because thats what I have access to

EmilCrane wrote:I was actually considering spearmen because thats what I have access to

Well then that's probably the best place to start. I'm finding I really like a unit of halberds and a unit of spearmen, but I reckon I could see a lot of different options working out. Best to get some games in with what you've got, and then adjust it once you've got a better idea of what's going to work best for you.

sebster wrote:

Krellnus wrote:How are they too expensive, they got 1ppm cheaper than the last book for the exact same model, makes them even better than ever. A couple of 10x2 units are good for softening up harder targets (Black Orcs, Bestigors, etc) or taking out hard-hitting MSU (Witch Elves, Swordmasters).

Handgunners used to cost 8 points per model, now they cost 9 points per model.

Huh, coulda sworn they were 10ppm, oh well, my math may suck, but my point still stands.