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My sorry if this isnt the place to ask questions on what im trying to do, but i wanted more info on this playstyle before i spend more money on more spacewolves.

My goal is to have a 100% Space-Wolf drop-pod army. While i started this army as a joke (screw LF spam, Ill Drop-pod spam! ), i now want to see how far i can push the competitiveness of the setup. And so, i came up with the following questions i hope Dakka can help answer.

How do you utilize a Drop-Pod army to its fullest ability?
What is the optimum number of pods in a Full-Pod army list? (say 2000pts)
Whether you win or lose the roll off to choose who goes first, how should the army be deployed?
How much of the army needs to be scoring units? how much more needs to be anti-armor/anti-IC?
Long-fangs and other heavy hitters; In a pod? or on the field, next an empty pod?
Five termies in a pod, worth the cost?

While someone will in fact come along and fill in the blanks of all your questions....

Drop Pod armies are usually not fun to play against for anyone. So you will discover very fast that people will avoid playing games against you as this hobby is mostly about having a good time.

That or you will become TFG pretty quick =]

really? i thought a pod army would be the exact opposite of a WAAC army

1. all ways have an odd number of pods (5,7,9...) cause on your first turn you deploy half of your pods rounded up. If you have 5, 3 come on first turn.

2. if you are going full DP then 7 or 9

3. win or lose roll off you cant deploy till your first turn. Now what do you drop first is what i think you meant. Now when people see a DP list more often then not 2 things will happen. 1 they bubble rap their tanks, or something of value. Or 2 they reserve everything. Most people when playing a DP list drop something that can take a beating the turn they come out like dreads.

4. I run 1 scoring unit for every 500pts but most people like to run 3 scoring units at 2000pt games. Meltas, meltas every where.

5.Long fangs in DP... I have an idea, Logan + Long Fangs with 5 MM in a DP. thats a 450pt bomb. when it drops logan gives the squad relentless and you fire 5 melta shots into the enemy. Splitting fire you do have a chance to blast 5 tanks sky high... or miss.

6. I say mix the armor in wolf guard squads. 5 guys, one in TDA with cyclone ML, chain fist, other with combis or power weapons.

How do you utilize a Drop-Pod army to its fullest ability?
Build choices into the army list. Don't commit to always deploying in certain ways. Make your opponent guess what you're doing and how you will deploy. Most opponents will choose to go second and reserve their army against DP armies. Use this knowlegde to your advantage. Build it so you CAN drop down and wreak havoc if he chooses to deploy, but also build it so it can take advantage of him reserving.

What is the optimum number of pods in a Full-Pod army list? (say 2000pts)
The number that lets you do what you need to. Don't listen to the always odd-pods crowd. You will use odd pods if that serves you and even pods if that fits your list/plan.

Whether you win or lose the roll off to choose who goes first, how should the army be deployed?
You should build in options to deploy in different ways. This probably includes taking units you expect to NOT drop in pods.

How much of the army needs to be scoring units? how much more needs to be anti-armor/anti-IC?
With space wolves, it is not a question of how much needs to be scoring. Their scoring units are amazing. I think Loganwing is the way to go for drop-wolves though, because of access to relentless longfangs, combi-weapons, mixed termi-PA units and cyclones.

Long-fangs and other heavy hitters; In a pod? or on the field, next an empty pod?
6 fangs with multi-meltas make for a great bodyguard for Logan. Missile launcher fangs with pod transports can give you deployment options with the empty pods. If you want to be competitive, you should allow stuff to be deployed normally and even to take non-podable units such as scouts and thundercav to support your main podders.

Five termies in a pod, worth the cost?
No. Make full use of WG being able to mix and match. Full wound-allocation BS, some cheap combi-weapon guys, a naked redshirt and some termies spread around to give everything more bite and surviability instead of gathering all your eggs in one basket.

Milisim wrote:
Drop Pod armies are usually not fun to play against for anyone. So you will discover very fast that people will avoid playing games against you as this hobby is mostly about having a good time.

That or you will become TFG pretty quick =]

What? I think you really have to explain this POV. How does playing a drop pod army = TFG in any shape, way or form?

the POV is as follows (Agree or disagree at will)

Drop Pods force your opponent to react to your move. You drop down 3 pods on turn 1 with Sternguard and all sorts of shyte that can instantly split into 2 and split fire. You can effectively wipe out 6 Vehicles or Units on T1.

Not only this but you handicap the opponent by forcing them to deal with the in your face tactic of shoot me or be tabled.

Now in real life shock and awe is great for stunning the enemy, it is used by spec ops the world over. However this is a TT game of 2 players.

Crippling a guy on T1 or severely limiting their options is not fun. This is a game and should be fun for both sides.

Games need to be more ebb and flow style rather than in your face. This is purely my gaming perspective and one I think most game creators strive for as well.

Any game mechanic that handicaps someone elses ability to move, shoot or assault by choice rather than by neccesity is broken to me.

I'm not saying its not counterable, because it is.. Im saying it shouldn't exist to be counterable in the first place, unless everyone has the exact same ability.

So by your definition, Milisim, Tremor Crons or Mounted DE lists make you TFG, do to their limitation of options or very aggressive turn 1 manuvers?

Milisim wrote:While someone will in fact come along and fill in the blanks of all your questions....

Drop Pod armies are usually not fun to play against for anyone. So you will discover very fast that people will avoid playing games against you as this hobby is mostly about having a good time.

That or you will become TFG pretty quick =]

There's a lot of armies with gimmicks that "are not usually fun to play against" but I don't think it's cool to go around and call some dude TFG for playing said army. Just because Venom spam, pretty much any GK list, Drop Pod lists, or even JSJ lists are a different kind of challenge to play against doesn't make it cheese.

OP: A handy tactic I've used before is dropping empty Drop Pods to block off paths or empty Pods with Locator Beacons to teleport something down later on. I'd also recommend taking an odd number of pods but as said above, take whatever number suits your list best.

Nagashek wrote:So by your definition, Milisim, Tremor Crons or Mounted DE lists make you TFG, do to their limitation of options or very aggressive turn 1 manuvers?

Don't forget Chaos Daemon armies, which are required to Deep Strike half their army the first turn. Appearently all Daemon players are TFG.

Illumini wrote:How do you utilize a Drop-Pod army to its fullest ability?
Build choices into the army list. Don't commit to always deploying in certain ways. Make your opponent guess what you're doing and how you will deploy. Most opponents will choose to go second and reserve their army against DP armies. Use this knowlegde to your advantage. Build it so you CAN drop down and wreak havoc if he chooses to deploy, but also build it so it can take advantage of him reserving.

What is the optimum number of pods in a Full-Pod army list? (say 2000pts)
The number that lets you do what you need to. Don't listen to the always odd-pods crowd. You will use odd pods if that serves you and even pods if that fits your list/plan.

Whether you win or lose the roll off to choose who goes first, how should the army be deployed?
You should build in options to deploy in different ways. This probably includes taking units you expect to NOT drop in pods.

How much of the army needs to be scoring units? how much more needs to be anti-armor/anti-IC?
With space wolves, it is not a question of how much needs to be scoring. Their scoring units are amazing. I think Loganwing is the way to go for drop-wolves though, because of access to relentless longfangs, combi-weapons, mixed termi-PA units and cyclones.

Long-fangs and other heavy hitters; In a pod? or on the field, next an empty pod?
6 fangs with multi-meltas make for a great bodyguard for Logan. Missile launcher fangs with pod transports can give you deployment options with the empty pods. If you want to be competitive, you should allow stuff to be deployed normally and even to take non-podable units such as scouts and thundercav to support your main podders.

Five termies in a pod, worth the cost?
No. Make full use of WG being able to mix and match. Full wound-allocation BS, some cheap combi-weapon guys, a naked redshirt and some termies spread around to give everything more bite and surviability instead of gathering all your eggs in one basket.

THIS is probably the best advice I seen about drop pod yet.

Milisim wrote:
Drop Pod armies are usually not fun to play against for anyone. So you will discover very fast that people will avoid playing games against you as this hobby is mostly about having a good time.

That or you will become TFG pretty quick =]

THIS is probably the strangest thing I've seen about drop pods... TFG really?.... I have nine droppods and only pull them out in friendly games, because in a tournament they would get rocked, trust me people learn pretty quick, but if your still getting 6 vehicles destroyed on turn one you need to rethink your strategy...

Yeah, I mean, pods can be a pain to play against if you don't know what you're doing. But drop pod armies can be countered easily. They're vulnerable the turn they drop, the army comes in piecemeal, and they lack maneuverability once they're on the table. So there are definitely ways to counter the advantages of a pod army (and subsequently kick their butts).

Castling up and bubble-wrapping is a given, but I also really like splitting my forces (stay with me), with slow units castled in one corner and fast units spread out across my deployment zone. Either they take the bait and drop near your fast movers (who then scatter out of their range or return to support your castle) or they focus on your castle, in which case your fast movers redeploy and you can bring superior firepower to bear on the few units they just dropped. Objective games are also tough for an all drop pod army for the same reason - once they drop, their units are fairly static. Just hold some units back and commit them once you see the other guy's strategy. Yes, you start the game reacting to him, but once most or all of his forces are on the ground, the tables turn and he'll have trouble reacting to you.

Just keep all that in mind when you're using your army, because you're essentially handicapping yourself with the points you spend on pods. Yes, they let you deep strike, but unless you can make that work to your advantage, you're basically starting out with 10% fewer points.

The all drop lists at my FLGS dont usually last long on the table.

If they drop withing Melta range, they are always within assault range of something that can Eat them alive. If the drop where they can not be assaulted, the get shot up before they can do much damage. Relentless Missile fangs in a pod, that can be scary. Relentless Melta fangs? are lunch for my mobs.

the biggest disadvantage to any pure deepstrike list is that you will start with less on the table than your opponent.

One of the keys nobody explicitly mentioned is taking pods on units you intend (at least typically) to start on the table instead of in reserve. A pod on Long Fangs that start in cover still counts for Drop Pod assault. So with the right list, you can put your whole army (minus some empty pods) turn 1. You can also take Drop Pods on Wolf Guard units who then get distributed to other squads.

A first turn deep strike with inertial guidance countering the dangers of mishap is very strong. You'll have to weather a turn of shooting on your naked troops, but MEQ have 3+ saves for a reason, you'll probably make it through with 80% of your army into a turn 2 assault, unless a Demolisher or Battle Cannon lands on target against a unit out of cover.

Yeah, drop pods only wreck your opponent turn 1 if your opponent has no idea what to do against them. The same is true for any solidly built army though.

As for drop pods, it's all about options. Marines in general are a weakness-exploiting army, and drop pods certainly fit that same idea. In this case, drop pods allow you to exploit your opponent's weaknesses in deployment. Having a single plan or two for how to use them is counterproductive.

Illumini wrote:How do you utilize a Drop-Pod army to its fullest ability?
Build choices into the army list. Don't commit to always deploying in certain ways. Make your opponent guess what you're doing and how you will deploy. Most opponents will choose to go second and reserve their army against DP armies. Use this knowlegde to your advantage. Build it so you CAN drop down and wreak havoc if he chooses to deploy, but also build it so it can take advantage of him reserving.

What is the optimum number of pods in a Full-Pod army list? (say 2000pts)
The number that lets you do what you need to. Don't listen to the always odd-pods crowd. You will use odd pods if that serves you and even pods if that fits your list/plan.

Whether you win or lose the roll off to choose who goes first, how should the army be deployed?
You should build in options to deploy in different ways. This probably includes taking units you expect to NOT drop in pods.

How much of the army needs to be scoring units? how much more needs to be anti-armor/anti-IC?
With space wolves, it is not a question of how much needs to be scoring. Their scoring units are amazing. I think Loganwing is the way to go for drop-wolves though, because of access to relentless longfangs, combi-weapons, mixed termi-PA units and cyclones.

Long-fangs and other heavy hitters; In a pod? or on the field, next an empty pod?
6 fangs with multi-meltas make for a great bodyguard for Logan. Missile launcher fangs with pod transports can give you deployment options with the empty pods. If you want to be competitive, you should allow stuff to be deployed normally and even to take non-podable units such as scouts and thundercav to support your main podders.

Five termies in a pod, worth the cost?
No. Make full use of WG being able to mix and match. Full wound-allocation BS, some cheap combi-weapon guys, a naked redshirt and some termies spread around to give everything more bite and surviability instead of gathering all your eggs in one basket.

The above is all good advice.

You want to give yourself options in terms of what you drop turn 1 vs what you drop later, depending on what you're up against and what your opponent is doing.

Against an opponent who has a lot of vehicles and wants to start on the table, it can be good to go first- giving you a chance to alpha strike his tanks with meltas from pod-borne units before he gets a chance to pop his smoke launchers or use Skimmers Moving Fast to get cover saves on his skimmers. OTOH, against a very mobile army, or one with special rules which help it with Reserve rolls, going first can be a liability for you- your opponent may choose to just start his army in Reserve and deny you targets entirely on turn one, leaving a good portion of your army on foot and having lost their special mobilty by the time the enemy appears, allowing him to seize the mobility advantage.

Many pod-based armies use units which are meant to start on the table, but for which you buy pods as transports, to give you greater flexibility in terms of dropping more full or empty pods on turn one. Units like Devastators or Long Fangs, or Thunderfires in a SM army, help give you this flexibility. If your opponent Reserves, you might choose to drop mostly empty pods turn 1* to keep your real units available until later.

Another approach (which is more applicable to the idea of an army which all drops) is to kit some units for anti-infantry and some for anti-tank, and decide what to drop turn 1 based on what's in your opponent's army. Or think about it defensively- say you have a mix of squads and dreadnoughts in pods, as an example. If your opponent's army has a lot of meltaguns or monstrous creatures in it, you don't want to drop the dreads early and make easy targets of them. You want to have them drop later, when hopefully you've killed or tied up in HtH some of those units which are especially good at killing dreads, and so your dreads can be more effective when they do show up. In objective games it can also often be a good move to have one or more scoring unit dropping late rather than soon, because it gives you tactical flexibility in terms of seeing how the game is going before deciding where to put that last scoring unit or two, so they can go where they're needed. You can potentially fake out an opponent and win the game this way too, if he thinks you've abandoned one or two objectives and are focusing on others.

(*Tip: if playing an objective game, drop them on/within 3" of objectives, as they can contest, and this forces your opponent to allocate some force against them. If playing KP, drop them far from the enemy, preferably somewhere they can get cover and/or grant cover to your other units).

While I think the tactics portion has been covered, I wanted to chime in on the "sportsmanship" aspect.

I play with a guy regularly (1-2 times a week) who normally uses a pretty nasty drop-pod Vulkan/melta list. It IS nasty but we always have fun and it doesn't make him "that guy." As long as you aren't a tool personally, don't let people tell you not to play it that way due to it being somehow taboo. Just my 2c.

I had good results with a pod filled with 4 multi melta long fangs and a terminator with cyclone missile launcher. Have another unit long fang melta unit with logan in a drop pod that can split fire and you can hurt 2-3 tanks right off the drop. Have two-three units that can show up later.

This is really helpful against the all reserve army since if you are going first, drop the long fangs in and get good positions for a turn or two, if you are going second your options change again.

I'm a little curious why you would want to drop pod termies. I mean, they already have the ability to teleport onto the battlefield don't they? Yeah, you're avoiding some mishaps, but given that termies lose no effectiveness in shooting between 1" and 29", it's not like you really need to drop in really close and take those kinds of risks that a drop pod ameliorates.

I guess perhaps with assault termies, or in this case WG (who do need to get close), but for regular termies?

You can't pod regular or assault termies and you can't deepstrike WG, so it's not an issue.

I don't think there is any problem with playing Drop pod armies. I play a 3 pod vulkan army and have had success with it, but i've also been stuffed pretty badly by people who know what they're doing. I think this whole game is about reacting to your enemy and them reacting to you, so the argument that "Drop pods force you to react" is pretty much the dumbest thing i've ever heard. EVERYTHING forces you to react.

Illumini wrote:You can't pod regular or assault termies and you can't deepstrike WG, so it's not an issue.

ah, okay.

Ailaros wrote:

Illumini wrote:You can't pod regular or assault termies and you can't deepstrike WG, so it's not an issue.

ah, okay.

You can if you're Black Templars.

As most of the tournament scene in Sweden plays with updated rules for vehicles using the IA2 rules, Templars also gain the Drop Pod Assault rule where I play. Being guaranteed to get your Terminators down on round 1 is huge.

Like I said its my opinion of balance in 40k.

Which is one of the major reasons i've pretty much moved on to WHFB.

There are no T1 abilities to cripple an army. The movement phase is slower paced and it is rare to see the dreaded alpha strike that means so much in 40k. To me giving both players a chance to maneuver around and prepare yourselfs makes for a better game, thus both players have fun not just one.

I already said Drop Pods were counterable, I am saying I find it not so much fun to be forced into acting on turn 1 rather than getting a turn or two to attempt to dictate moves.


I would give an example of Chess. Each side is equal and has the same abilities.

I don't really care if my reasoning is stupid because like I said to me games are about FUN, I do not have fun against DP armies and I am gamer that gets out 2x a month to play and FUN is my reason for playing.

We use to have a Drop Pod army guy at our FLGS, while I remember not wanting to play against him a lot I remember the games were pretty fun. With 25% terrain it's hard to plop DPs right in your enemies deployment zone.

The main advantage of DP armies I find is creating a new battlefield, you can box in your opponent fairly easily. While this isn't good against close range infantry killers (Crons, GKs, ect) it'll be fine for anything else.

Milisim wrote:Like I said its my opinion of balance in 40k.

Which is one of the major reasons i've pretty much moved on to WHFB.

I would give an example of Chess. Each side is equal and has the same abilities.

Firstly, comparing WHFB to chess is a joke. Any balance gains in WHFB compared to 40k when the both are compared to chess is miniscule.

Secondly...

Milisim wrote: to me games are about FUN, I do not have fun against DP armies

You want fair and balanced games, and despite the fact that 40k isn't any less balanced than a game you do consider fun, and despite the fact that a drop pod army is a balanced army within the game, you still think it's unfun? This implies either that you don't think balanced games are fun, or that you don't understand that DP armies are balanced.

Perhaps this conflict comes from an irrational bias against drop pods?

I would hardly call a drop pod army something worthy of being TFG. A deep striking tactical squad is not terrifying in the slightest. Yes, Sternguard with combi-weapons combat squadding from a drop pod is very effective and dangerous, but it's also very expensive for how survivable it is. That unit can easily cost 335 points or more.

A drop podding army is vulnerable to blast templates since they come in packed relatively tightly, and to mobility. While they can drop anywhere they want, after the initial drop they don't really have any means of fast movement. Also, if the opposing army has any close combat units covering the shooty units, they can either take fire and save the shooty guys or charge the deep strikers. All drop pods is effective and puts the other player on their back foot, but it's hardly a WAAC or TFG sort of thing.

All I said was that in chess everyone is equal. I also said in whfb you cant T1 alpha strike I never liked the two together.

Im not arguing that the points cost is unblanced etc.. Im saying that forcing a player on T1 to deal with something that is already 3" away is not balanced. Especially when you factor in that Xenos for the most part have to roll to come on, scatter and die, where as SM just plonked it down where they want and split its contents into 2 thus killing 2 targets. That is what I see as unbalanced about it.

I believe T1 should be all about moving around and getting ready, like it is in WHFB. T1 in 40k has become the Turn that can dictate a game if you get an alpha strike off.


I suppose I am a mainly complaining about how 40k is now to fast. Things Run, Have 24" movement etc and everything is to in your face for CC. Drop Pods are simply a device to do this like a Rhino except thry do it better, thus why I hate them more.


Vehicles need toning down in 40k they are overused and abused.

Milisim wrote:Vehicles need toning down in 40k they are overused and abused.

Go back to Square bases!

Drop Pods are much easier to deal with in 5th than they used to be.

I can get at where Millisim's coming from, though not to the degree he's railing against it. Certain builds or units change the nature of the game and how it's played. A podding army means you have to anticipate that turn 1 drop, and deploy to deal with it. While deployment matters against other armies, against pods it takes on another level of importance, and the nature of the maneuvers in that game are just different than they are against other armies.

Back in the day, in 6th ed and 7th ed WHFB, I used to dislike playing against Large, Flying, Terror-causing monsters. Like Bloodthirsters, or Lords on Dragons. Not because I found them too hard to beat, but because they changed the nature of the game and forced me to deploy and play differently, making the game more about reacting to, containing, and nullifying the big monster than about the usual army-army maneuver battle. I just didn't enjoy that kind of game as much, even though I usually won them. It didn't feel like the same kind of game.

I expect that's probably where millisim's coming from. The nature of the pod army just changes the emphasis and orientation of the game in a way which feels wrong to him and takes away part of the game he enjoys- that first turn or two at range before the armies really come to grips.

Thankfully IME most players aren't like that. Most players enjoy the change of pace, and the challenge of learning a new set of tactics. And don't find pod armies to be annoying or overpowered.

Your better at expressing it than me =]

I do not enjoy being forced to do things, I believe there is a difference between reacting to a drop pod and reacting to a rhino moving up 12"

And that difference is what ruins Alpha Striking armies for me.

I feel sort of the same way about alpha strike armies based around long range shooting. They try to cripple you from a distance before you can counter-punch.

I don't have the same problem with pods in part because they're only hitting you with a part of their force on turn 1 (not the whole thing), and in part because they're delivering their units right into your face to get pounced on by your whole army.