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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Hey folks!

I'm working on learning Warmachine because my local mini-wargaming buddy wants to. I've picked up some Cryx models, had some learning games, and am now trying to put together two 35 point lists for an upcoming tournament at the nearest FLGS. I think it's called "Steamroller" or something; I can't have the same warcasters / characters in both lists, and in the four rounds I have to play both lists twice.

I've got two lists put together (31 points each) of the 35 points for each. If you can comment on what the extra four points in each could/should be, as well as overall critique of each list, I'd be most appreciative.

List #1: Deneghra's Army:

Theme: The idea here is to debuff my way through the middle of the enemy army with Deathjack to get to the enemy warcaster.

Warcaster: Deneghra
Deathjack
Deathripper
Defiler
Skarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren
Bane Thrall Unit (full)
Bane Thrall Officer & Standard

Total points: 31/35

I only have two arc nodes in there (although I have a second Deathripper) because the arc nodes seem pretty unimportant as targets compared to what else is in there. Also, Deathrippers are pretty awful in close combat, and paying an extra 4 points for another arc node seems like a bad idea. Thoughts? Comments? Criticism? Additional four points? Also, the Defiler costs an extra point over a deathripper, and his venom isn't impressing me much; not sure if it's worth the extra point to have him in there or not.


List #2: Asphyxious' Army:

Theme: The idea here is to blow a hole if necessary to the enemy warcaster, then to use Asphyxious and his feat, along with the Skarlock Thrall to nuke the enemy caster in an assassination attempt; I can get 5 POW 14 nukes in during his feat.

Warcaster: Asphyxious
Deathripper
Deathripper
Defiler
Bane Lord Tartarus
Bane Thralls (full unit)
Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
Withershadow Combine
Warwitch Siren
Scarlock Thrall

I don't know if I need all three arc nodes in there or not, but I'm also working against the models that I have to use. I was thinking of maybe some brute thralls for the 5" AoE...but I'll bow to your knowledge. A second unit of Bane Thralls? In either list?

The only models I don't have out of what I've listed are Deathjack and Asphyxious. I plan on picking up both next weekend when I go to the tournament (and borrowing them both from someone while I'm there *for* the tournament. I'm open to changes - both in filling out the other four points, in changing out models that are currently in there, etc.

If you make a list critique, please intelligently explain what the change is for, what hole/gap/other it will serve, how it will strengthen it towards the purpose....I'm in learning mode here!



   
Made in gb
Bane Lord Tartar Sauce





Oxford, Great Britain

You've got some pretty good lists there. Nicely done. Now all comments below are just how I would play the lists or changes I would make. Take them with a pinch of salt.

Deneghra1: First your comments about the arc nodes. They are there to allow you to get her spells on targets so that your troops can do the killing. Two should be sufficient for your needs. What I used to do with them is run them first turn straight ahead. Don't. 10" if going second, or up to 13" if first. Reduce those values if the enemies shooting worries you (retribution's Ravyn and some Cygnar/Legion stuff). Use one arc node at a time by moving it up into spell range and cast through it. Keep the other one back till the next turn. They are arc nodes first, offensive pieces second.

The Deathripper is awesome in combat but to be so it requires focus, something which Deneghra has little to spare as she's wanting to cast spell. If you can get a few focus on it, especially on feat turn, it will be able to hit on the first attack then the others hit automatically, all at POW 13 (+2 for feat). The Defiler's spray is less likely to hit at RAT 5 vs FOCUS 7 but has more POW. It should be after slightly different targets, but not by much.

The deathjack is an interesting one. It's perfect for a 35pt game, any less and it's too many points tied up in a single model. Focus efficient and able to cast Denghra's spells as well it'll do better here than with Asphyxious. Though I've been having good luck with Nightmare instead of Deathjack. The Prey bonus means he's hitting as hard as the Deathjack at a higher MAT. Unfortunately you are losing out on the spell casting. Deathjack gives you a focus efficient heavy, that can heal itself and cast spells. Nightmare gives you a stealthed heavy, that can go ghostly without help (but use the skarlock if you need it to) and has a very high threat range against the enemy. One game I preyed a carnivian as those things with assault can really threaten the squishy Deneghra. My opponent kept it at the back of his army most of the game. That's a fair trade as I had to use nightmare to kill the last thing in the zone for me to win.

One last thing, your bane thralls will slow up your list. Make sure your other stuff doesn't get too far ahead.

So, if you keep with the deathjack I would either downgrade the defiler to a deathripper and put in Bile Thralls (min) to clear infantry like no other. Or add a second Warwitch Siren and Gorman Di Wulfe (great solo). If nightmare then you'll have 6/7 points spare (defiler/deathripper downgrade). Add in the bile thralls and either a necrotech(or machine wraith) or Warwitch siren.

Hope that makes sense.

Asphyxious (assuming prime/1 from your idea of 5 POW 14's)

Now I'm guessing you haven't played much with him so I'll just run through a couple of things. His weakness is that he doesn't help your army hit things. So watch out for high defence things. You're right about one of his assassination threats but I don't think it's his main one. Firstly if he hits in melee then the rest of his attacks will hit automatically. Say you have saved his feat for this then that thing should be dead and you can teleport away afterwards. Secondly, against a squishy (ARM 15 or less) caster I would be attempting to get an arc node to be within 4". The thing with AOEs is that they can only scatter half the distance between the target (or max range whichever is smallest) and a 2" move will not deviate off a small base. ( I hope that makes sense). What all that maths means is that Breath of Corruption will not scatter off the target if your point of origin is within 4". And Breath of Corruption has the special rule that deals a POW 12 to everything hit, it's not halved like a normal AOE. So that's 4 auto hitting POW 12s, two of which will be boosted. Similar to the hellfire route but a surer way of killing the squishy casters.

Anyways, on to the list you have. Tartarus is very good to help the bane thralls hit so good choice there. Three arc nodes is slightly over kill but worth it as it'll force the enemy to play as if a spell assassination is coming next turn, no matter if it is or not. It's the Withershadow Combine that is an interesting choice. I hadn't really thought of them as a useful addition to Asphyxious but now I'm seeing that a free upkeep of Scything Touch is great. Just remember the puppet master ability. Something I'm always forgetting with them. It'll really help with the assassination run as it'll reduce the chances of that double 1 for damage.

Basically use the list as is, and add in another Warwitch Siren for running the arc nodes. Also add Saxon Orrik. He'll give the bane thralls or asphyxious pathfinder as that's the other weakness of this list.

Hope this helps and ask if I've been unclear in any place.
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch






Dashofpepper wrote:
List #1: Deneghra's Army:

Theme: The idea here is to debuff my way through the middle of the enemy army with Deathjack to get to the enemy warcaster.

Warcaster: Deneghra
Deathjack
Deathripper
Defiler
Skarlock Thrall
Warwitch Siren
Bane Thrall Unit (full)
Bane Thrall Officer & Standard

Total points: 31/35

I only have two arc nodes in there (although I have a second Deathripper) because the arc nodes seem pretty unimportant as targets compared to what else is in there. Also, Deathrippers are pretty awful in close combat, and paying an extra 4 points for another arc node seems like a bad idea. Thoughts? Comments? Criticism? Additional four points? Also, the Defiler costs an extra point over a deathripper, and his venom isn't impressing me much; not sure if it's worth the extra point to have him in there or not.


Deathrippers are fine and can be surprising decent in close combat. People forget they have Sustained Assault. Defilers are ok, but sometimes the extra point can be put to better use elsewhere. If your plan is for DJ to get to the Caster and murder them, I think Nightmare with Prey, Reach, Stealth(from his affinity with Denny), and Imprint: Ghostly might be a better choice. Nightmare is also two points less. I'd use the points saved from the above changes to add a full unit of Mechanithralls and a unit of Necrosurgen+Stitch Thralls. Mechanithralls are CHEAP and hit pretty hard(even harder with Denny's debuffs). Their downsides are that they have low MAT and are easy to kill. Denny's Debuffs make them hit better and the Necrosurgeon brings 3 of them back to life per turn.

List with changes:

Warcaster: Deneghra(+5)
Nightmare 10pts
Deathripper 4pts
Deathripper 4pts
Skarlock Thrall 2
Warwitch Siren 2
Bane Thrall Unit (full) 8pts
Bane Thrall Officer & Standard 3pts
McThrall Unit(full) 5pts
Necrosurgeon+Stitch Thralls 2pts
40(-5)pts

Dashofpepper wrote:
List #2: Asphyxious' Army:

Theme: The idea here is to blow a hole if necessary to the enemy warcaster, then to use Asphyxious and his feat, along with the Skarlock Thrall to nuke the enemy caster in an assassination attempt; I can get 5 POW 14 nukes in during his feat.

Warcaster: Asphyxious
Deathripper
Deathripper
Defiler
Bane Lord Tartarus
Bane Thralls (full unit)
Bane Thrall Officer & Standard
Withershadow Combine
Warwitch Siren
Scarlock Thrall


List looks pretty decent except I don't think you need the 3rd Arc Node. I'd use two of your remaining four points to turn the Defiler into a Reaper Helljack which is really nice with a Sustained Attack reach weapon and the Harpoon is really nice to drag things in for Banes to crush or could pull things out of the way to nuke the caster.

With the other two points, I'd take the Mercenary Character Solo Saxon Orrik. His big thing is he can give a friendly unit Pathfinder. You don't want terrain slowing your Banes to a crawl. Denny has the spell Ghost Walk, so does not worry about terrain so much.

List with changes:
Warcaster: Asphyxious(+6)
Deathripper 4pts
Deathripper 4pts
Reaper 7pts
Bane Lord Tartarus 4pts
Bane Thralls (full unit) 8pts
Bane Thrall Officer & Standard 3pts
Withershadow Combine 5pts
Warwitch Siren 2pts
Scarlock Thrall 2pts
Saxon Orrik 2pts
41(-6)pts

Machine Wraiths also work pretty well in Tournaments. Since they are a whole point for one solo(as opposed to one point for three solos, like Scrap Thralls), they can contest control areas and since they are Incorporeal, there are only so many things that can kill them. It surprising how many armies can not handle an Incorporeal Solo jumping on a Control Area.

There is also the Merc Solo, Gorman Di Wulfe. For two points he is crazy. He throws down smoke clouds to cover your advance and has grenades that debuff your opponent like crazy. It might be worth swapping a Warwitch siren for him in on of your lists.

My two cents. I hope that helps.

EDIT: yastobaal ninjaed just about everything I wanted to say while I typed up my huge post. lolz

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/20 21:20:11


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

I mentioned the bloat-thralls because I don't seem to have a readily available means of taking down tarpit units. I was playing against my friend, and he used a solo character, officer, and standard (and caster) to buff up his Winterguard to DEF 17. I threw my Bane Thralls into them, but couldn't get past the DEF to hit anything - I got tarpitted the whole game.

   
Made in gb
Bane Lord Tartar Sauce





Oxford, Great Britain

Bile thralls is another great answer. Especially with Deneghra as access to ghost walk means they can stay out of sight then move freely to a place and explode.

Bloat thralls are an ok option, just much easier to destroy at range.

Edit: and another trick with asphyxious I forgot to mention. As well as re-filling the focus the feat deals out a POW 5 to living enemy. Parasite that winterguard unit and most of them will die. To do this successfully you'll want to boost the hit and puppet master will be very handy.

And don't worry Tzeentchling9, you came up with a couple of things I hadn't thought of. Mechanithralls for one.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/05/21 00:02:19


 
   
Made in us
Painting Within the Lines





Riverside, CA.

Take a listen to the podcast A Road to War. You can find it at Museonminis.com They just did a very indepth Cryx episode. These guys are some of the top 10 placers at most of the National Tournaments. Muse on minis is also a great listen while you paint.

Take a list to the others as well. There is alot of good info there. I would also suggest having about 5 to 10 practice games with timed turns before you go to a SR. Its a whole different gmae once you add time.

Good luck mate.


My WIP painting page on facebook
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Feasting on the souls of unworthy opponents

Alright, thanks for the responses all.

Here's my initial thoughts for review:

1. Nightwretches are arc nodes, have a POW14 gun that shoots 6" that can be made into a 3" AoE for 1 focus. They're four points and seem better than the Defiler at 5 points, and seem more killy than the Deathripper. What about two Nightwretches in each list instead of deathrippers or defilers?

2. I've just become familiar with machine wraiths, and also that games have control points and aren't simply to kill the enemy warcaster. A machine wraith in each list seems like a good idea to me...it can contest or hold a control point on it's own, is incorporeal and can't be attacked unless someone uses magic against it, and it can control an enemy warjack.

3. That would still leave me at 31/35 in Deneghra's list. Taking the Defiler out of Asphyxious' list puts him at 27/35, and I could add a machine wraith for 28, then add in Gorman to one or the other, Darragh Wrathe, or the solo mercenary guy who gives pathfinder, which would help me against armies that can mess with terrain to make it hard for me to move.

Thoughts?

   
Made in gb
Bane Lord Tartar Sauce





Oxford, Great Britain

With Deneghra, my preference is for nightwretches over deathrippers and defilers over ripjaws. They rarely get to use their gun as their primary use is as an arc node but when they do it does work well.

A max of two focus and you have a threat to most solos. I especially like them for the Eiryss solo who is a large threat. Making sure that you can get within 4" (so if it deviates it will move no further than 2" and still slip the target), turn the gun into an AOE and then boost the damage. A fairly good chance to take Eiryss down that way.

Machine Wraiths are useful against both warmachine and hordes. I personally am yet to really try them out but here's a good blog post.

If you can take Saxon Orrik with Asphyxious, As long as he's alive you have multiple threats in your list. Darragh Wraith is a good choice, preferably with Asphyxious again as death ride works to extend his threat range and all undead models. Then you can also protect your stuff with the -2 strength aura. Use those and you'll do fine. Gorman I would be using with Deneghra to block LoS with his smoke cloud and then blind something big with black oil.

Again, looks like you have the right idea with the stuff you are thinking about. Good luck.
   
 
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