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Hey Dakka!

I've decided that I'm going to create rules and models for a table-top wargame. I've read most of the threads in this forum on the subject. Looks like the only one that has come to fruition is the Blackwater Gulch game, which looks really fun and has some cool models so far.

My premise is a near-future sci-fi skirmish with similar mechanics to Necromunda, though a bit more in-depth with development of "characters", plus a few really cool tricks thrown in there like snipers/spotters, robotics and other sciences, a model-level initiative based turn sequence, and a "torque/tempo" point system that can be used to speed up a model when you just have to go first.

The background of the story is an alternate Earth set 100 years in the future. Due to the earth's technology gains (more on that later), it has earned the attention of the rest of the galaxy (galaxies?). A "federation" of worlds invites Earth to join. Even 100 years from now, the "enlightened" people of Earth are still divided on national and political issues, and could not collectively make an affirmative decision to join. The "federation" warned Earth that it would be at least 100 years before they were invited to join again... and now that everyone is aware of Earth's existence... the galaxy is a very scary place to be alone...

The initial release will have three or four alien races (more on those later), as well as several generic group types (to be fleshed out more later). Groups consist of:

Gangs: Generic term used to describe criminal affiliations generally found in urban centers. Gangs tend to be more proficient in close combat fighting, and generally due to poor training are very ineffective with ranged weaponry and halve the effective range of said weapons (with some exceptions). Gangs are also opportunistic, and have the ability to acquire (or sell) nearly any substance or technology, illicit or otherwise, if the compensation is worth the effort.

Militia: Generic term used to describe groups of military minded (if not military trained) individuals which tend to be centered in rural areas. Militia are well versed with the use and maintenance of small arms (rifles, handguns, SMG's), can use snipers, and some are effective in field medicine.

OK... do avoid the wall of text, I also am working on...

Primatives - Do not use (yet?) modern weaponry, have excellent organic or mineral resources, start the game with access to (makeshift) hydroponics lab.

Zealots - Religious fanatics

University/Corporate Research facilities - Science based mostly non-combatant classes who use mercenary labor to protect them on their excursions to procure mineral or organic resources and alien technologies.

Oha - A simian (chimpanzee evolved?) society, both bi and quadrupedal with a prehensile tail. This multiple planet spanning society has outlawed violent conflict due to their genetic disposition to rage fueled carnage, and the only penalty for this infraction is death. Oha will not (can not?) enter hand to hand combat, and their weapons are based on a kinetic pulse-creating projectile which very seldomly does damage to an enemy, but has a strong chance of knocking them down.

Zukari - These guys come to Earth for one reason: to eat humans.

Unnamed Race - a competitive Merchant class of alien, who never works with another of its species unless it is an apprentice. Relies entirely on mercenary labor, and is the only race that will happily be bribed to leave a combat zone.


What do you think so far?

What I think is the same thing I think for all of these posts and threads:

What are your MECHANICS?

You've provided a very broad background and setting, but nothing with regards to the engine that is going to run this game. The fluff is the easy stuff to write and get excited about, but if you cannot support it with the crunch of good mechanics and rules, you aren't going to go anywhere.

Let's start with some basics:

1. What kind of system for determining events? Dice? Cards? Roshambo?

(I will note that the one bit of mechanics you mention, the torque/tempo points, does interest me and puts an interrupting concept into the game)

2. Scale?

3. How big is a game going to be? Is it played on a big Warhammer table? On a smaller one?

4. How are you going to balance all of these races?

5. Are there stats? What are they? Or something else?

Required Reading: Steve Cole's RUNNING A GAME PUBLISHING COMPANY

This is a joke, right?

I mean, it reads like satire.

Cyporiean wrote:Required Reading: Steve Cole's RUNNING A GAME PUBLISHING COMPANY

Oh man, this is going to be really useful if it's a slow night at work in an hour. Thanks!

Ouze wrote:

Cyporiean wrote:Required Reading: Steve Cole's RUNNING A GAME PUBLISHING COMPANY

Oh man, this is going to be really useful if it's a slow night at work in an hour. Thanks!

Its really a great read, I wouldn't say to follow it 100%, but its got a lot of great information on how things are done...

curran12 wrote:What I think is the same thing I think for all of these posts and threads

1. What kind of system for determining events? Dice? Cards? Roshambo?

(I will note that the one bit of mechanics you mention, the torque/tempo points, does interest me and puts an interrupting concept into the game)

2. Scale?

3. How big is a game going to be? Is it played on a big Warhammer table? On a smaller one?

4. How are you going to balance all of these races?

5. Are there stats? What are they? Or something else?

1. D6 based. Ive got a lot of modifiers and mechanics laid out.

2. 28-30mm

3. Im thinking a lot of the games will play well at a heavy terrain covered 2x2 board, until i do vehicle rules and models.

4. Lots of playtesting.

5. Stats are a bit more streamlined than 40k/necromunda. I think s/t are silly.

chuckwilliams wrote:My premise is a near-future sci-fi skirmish with similar mechanics to Necromunda...

Every time I see this I think to myself, "I'll just stick with Necromunda then..."

I have more stuff then this I mean sure my grammars non exsistent but still. No insult intended just saying.

chuckwilliams wrote:

1. D6 based. Ive got a lot of modifiers and mechanics laid out.

2. 28-30mm

3. Im thinking a lot of the games will play well at a heavy terrain covered 2x2 board, until i do vehicle rules and models.

4. Lots of playtesting.

5. Stats are a bit more streamlined than 40k/necromunda. I think s/t are silly.

Sounds like you've got some good groundwork done. If you've read the threads similar to yours on dakka, then you know that rather than just posting some background, you need to get a draft of the rules finished and make them available for folks to read.

My usual question also applies when folks show up wanting to make a post-apoc game.
Have you read any of the sets already in existance? Neuron York, Wastelands Meltdown, Nuclear Renaissance, etc.

Cyporiean wrote:Required Reading: Steve Cole's RUNNING A GAME PUBLISHING COMPANY

I'm all over it.


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Catyrpelius wrote:

chuckwilliams wrote:My premise is a near-future sci-fi skirmish with similar mechanics to Necromunda...

Every time I see this I think to myself, "I'll just stick with Necromunda then..."

But it isn't Necromunda. It's Necromunda insofar as the characters develop over time, which I believe is rare in a TT game. The thing that draws me to RPGs, both pen and pencil and video games, and even sports simulators, is the development of a character's skills.

Also, it isn't turn based, which as people have pointed out in other threads, really imparts a "first turn advantage" that can make or break a game.


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Eilif wrote:

Sounds like you've got some good groundwork done. If you've read the threads similar to yours on dakka, then you know that rather than just posting some background, you need to get a draft of the rules finished and make them available for folks to read.

My usual question also applies when folks show up wanting to make a post-apoc game.
Have you read any of the sets already in existance? Neuron York, Wastelands Meltdown, Nuclear Renaissance, etc.

I've read a lot of sci-fi rules and considered them. Post-apocalyptic isn't really the genre here, so stuff like radiation and scavenging for food isn't applicable (yet?). This is more like aliens coming to earth to get "stuff" (rare minerals or organics, technology, antiquities, food in one case), and then "locals" either trying to protect themselves, get more stuff, or get technology from aliens and reproduce it.


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Cool Mechanics ideas:

1. Overwatch - Sure it's old stuff, and it keeps getting added and removed from other games. In this game, any model can start the game in overwatch. Also, overwatch doesn't necessarily have to be a shooting attack. For instance, if you were sitting, lying in wait for a guy to come around a corner, and when it finally happens, it's either a guy you know can kick your butt, or it is a vehicle, or a guy in power armor... you can just run away... or conversely if it's someone weak, you could even charge them... so basically overwatch is more than just sit and shoot, its in most cases a full turn activated by someone coming into LOS and range. Whether it is "just shooting" or a full turn depends on initiative, basically if a guy with a high initiative entered overwatch, he would get a full turn if we waived his move previously to go into overwatch. Example, Guy "B" starts the game in overwatch and has Init (tenative name for stat) of 2, and Guy "A" has an init of 7, Guy B could only shoot at Guy A. On turn two, if Guy B has waived his turn in turn 1 to go into overwatch, then he would get a full move as Guy A ran into LOS.

2. Reaction moves - Even if you have made your full move for a turn, you don't just stand there like a doofus if someone comes around the corner in LOS. Once someone moves into LOS, you can declare a reaction move, which is either to move in any direction D3 inches, fire a wild shot (hits on a 6+, there are modifiers, for example point blank range), and even a CC attack if they come around the corner close enough to your model.

3. Tempo/Torque Points - Every turn, each player starts with 5 new Tempo/Torque points (this can be modified by leader skills, as well as race/army modifiers to be determined). These can be used to skew initiative and even dice rolls, and are used in a "reverse auction" format. Example 1: Each player has a model that moves at initiative 7. Player A would really like his model to move first, so he says he will bid one tempo point to move first. Player B can either allow Player A's character to move first at the cost of the one tempo point, or he could declare that he would be willing to bid two tempo points to go first. This reverse auction continues until either one player will not bid higher than the last. There can be no ties. If both players want to start the bidding at the same time, a simple D6 roll-off will determine who starts the auction. Note that players could theoretically "bluff bid", and bid higher on an initiative move to get the other player to spend more points than originally intended. Tempo points can also be used to modify any dice roll +/- 1 per point.

Lord General Cheese wrote:I have more stuff then this I mean sure my grammars non exsistent but still. No insult intended just saying.

It's ok. I forgive you.

Overwatch/Reaction is only "old" in the sense that most 40k'ers think of it as a relic of 2nd ed. Overwatch/Reaction/Reactive/Interruptive mechanics are and have been the staple of many gaming systems.

For some more ideas about these, I'd look at possibly stealing ideas or concepts from:

-WarEngine: allows you to reserve a CC or ranged attack to be used to interrupt an enemy unit's turn, but the player still has to announce in advance which attack they are saving. Requires a bit of forethought and is my favorite overwatch/interruption mechanic.
http://warengine.darktortoise.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

-Tomorrow's War: Player with the initiative for a turn is "active" and the other player reacts to his movements, and the active player can also then react.

-Chain Reaction 3 (has a sci-fi variant called 5150). The most involved reaction system I've seen. One enemy action, can set of a whole chain of reactions between two units. Not my favorite system as it takes alot of control away from players, but very popular among indie wargamers and is probably the best engine for solo play I've ever seen.
http://www.twohourwargames.com/chainreaction3.html

WarEngine and Chain Reaction 3 are both free and will give you an idea of the two extremes you can go to when considering Reaction systems. CR3 being the most elaborate, and WarEngine being a nice lite-balanced example.

If you want to do a game with characters that develop over time then a D6 system isn't really suitable IMO. A D10 or D20 system would work better, D8 and D12 would also be better.

Gargantuan wrote:If you want to do a game with characters that develop over time then a D6 system isn't really suitable IMO. A D10 or D20 system would work better, D8 and D12 would also be better.

Why? Increased variables? I understand 6x6 = 36, and 10x10=100.

My thought was on some things to use 2d6x2d6, which is 121 variants, and even on some things (like loot) having bonuses for results that are doubles... so an 8 on one side of the chart is one result, but there's a bonus if that 8 is two 4's.


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Eilif wrote:Overwatch/Reaction is only "old" in the sense that most 40k'ers think of it as a relic of 2nd ed. Overwatch/Reaction/Reactive/Interruptive mechanics are and have been the staple of many gaming systems.

For some more ideas about these, I'd look at possibly stealing ideas or concepts from:

-WarEngine: allows you to reserve a CC or ranged attack to be used to interrupt an enemy unit's turn, but the player still has to announce in advance which attack they are saving. Requires a bit of forethought and is my favorite overwatch/interruption mechanic.
http://warengine.darktortoise.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

-Tomorrow's War: Player with the initiative for a turn is "active" and the other player reacts to his movements, and the active player can also then react.

-Chain Reaction 3 (has a sci-fi variant called 5150). The most involved reaction system I've seen. One enemy action, can set of a whole chain of reactions between two units. Not my favorite system as it takes alot of control away from players, but very popular among indie wargamers and is probably the best engine for solo play I've ever seen.
http://www.twohourwargames.com/chainreaction3.html

WarEngine and Chain Reaction 3 are both free and will give you an idea of the two extremes you can go to when considering Reaction systems. CR3 being the most elaborate, and WarEngine being a nice lite-balanced example.

Checking out CR3 right now. Thanks!

Gargantuan wrote:If you want to do a game with characters that develop over time then a D6 system isn't really suitable IMO. A D10 or D20 system would work better, D8 and D12 would also be better.

If by over time, you mean years of gaming, then you'd be right. However, most campaigns only take a few months of weekly or bi-weekly gaming, and there are plenty of d6 gaming systems that have advancement systems that are more than adequate.

Assuming that...
-within your warband only a couple of characters at most would earn an advance in a given gaming evening and sometimes not even that
-A given advance would likely only affect one stat, acquired bit of gear or special rule
-factions will have characters die and have to add new green characters.

...it's entirely possible to have a system that is not complex, but still offers plenty of room for advance.

Check out Neutron York 3000 (a 7 buck download with an excellent advance system) or even Necromunda for examples of this.

If you want to do a D10 or D20 set then more power to you, but don't feel that you have to add granularity just to have a workable advancing campaign system.

Eilif wrote:

Gargantuan wrote:If you want to do a game with characters that develop over time then a D6 system isn't really suitable IMO. A D10 or D20 system would work better, D8 and D12 would also be better.

If by over time, you mean years of gaming, then you'd be right. However, most campaigns only take a few months of weekly or bi-weekly gaming, and there are plenty of d6 gaming systems that have advancement systems that are more than adequate.

Assuming that...
-within your warband only a couple of characters at most would earn an advance in a given gaming evening and sometimes not even that
-A given advance would likely only affect one stat, acquired bit of gear or special rule
-factions will have characters die and have to add new green characters.

...it's entirely possible to have a system that is not complex, but still offers plenty of room for advance.

Check out Neutron York 3000 (a 7 buck download with an excellent advance system) or even Necromunda for examples of this.

If you want to do a D10 or D20 set then more power to you, but don't feel that you have to add granularity just to have a workable advancing campaign system.

Definitely checked out Necromunda and Mordheim. I'll see about picking up Neutron York 3000. Thanks for the heads up!

Don't forget about Golgo Island.

Grot 6 wrote:Don't forget about Golgo Island.

Nice rules, Neutron York preview was nice too. The models are a little... meh... but some good stuff in there. I'm also looking at the Inquisitor rules, which are a bit convoluted and overcomplicated, but have some good stuff in there also.

And now my first model is an armature and has some bulk


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"The Zukari are known throughout the galaxy as connoisseurs of fine art, music, and food. They also freely profess their preference for eating sentient beings. Any Zukari factions visiting Earth aren’t looking for technology, commodities, or cultural significance... they are looking for meat!"

This is what I have so far for Character Stats

M (Movement) S (Shooting) CC (Close Combat) T (Tech) IR (Initiative/Reaction) C (Command) D (Damage)


Also, totally scrapping the whole Egypt thing. I just started watching Stargate SG-1, I didn't realize it had been beaten to death.


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Movement - The movement stat describes in inches how far a model can move in a turn. This is a raw score, which can be modified by terrain (see Terrain page XX), injuries (see Injuries page XX), and by specific area-effect weapons.

Statistics and the Rule of 7 - The following four “Skill” stats are all governed by the Rule of 7. To find the raw score needed to roll on a D6 to successfully perform a skill, start with the number 7, and subtract the stat in question. For example, if Model A wants to shoot Model B, he starts with 7, subtracts his Shooting stat (in this case 4), and the result is 3. So Model A, before other modifiers are factored in (see Shooting, page XX), needs to roll a 3+ on a D6 in order to succeed. Please note that rolls of 6 almost always will hit (unless the action being performed is “Impossible”, see Impossible Actions, page XX), and that rolls of 1 always miss. Rolls of 6 and 1 can sometimes result in “Critical” successes and failures. These “Criticals” for each of the four Skill stats will be found in their respective sections.

Shooting - This Skill stat is the raw ability of one model to shoot another with a ranged weapon. More on the intricacies of this skill can be found in the Shooting section on page XX.

Close Combat - The Close Combat Skill stat is the raw ability of one model to strike another model with a close combat weapon (for instance a knife), bare hands (feet, or even a prehensile tail), or improvised weapons (like a chair or a beer mug). Considerably more details are available in both the Close Combat section (page XX) and in the Advanced Close Combat optional rules section (page XX).

Tech - The Tech Skill stat is used in two different ways. In game, the Tech stat is used just like the two Combat skill stats to perform actions related to technology. For instance, Model A would like to open a secured door. His Tech stat is a 2, so, using the Rule of 7, he would need a 5+ to successfully open the door. There are many modifiers to the Tech Skill stat, which are described in full in the Tech section (page XX).

The Tech Skill stat is also used in the post scenario play. This is explained in further details in the Campaign section (page XX). In post scenario play, a model with a Tech Skill stat who is interested in doing research on scavenged alien equipment, bionics, or biological matter can do so, and the Tech Skill stat determines the number of attempts that model can make at the “Research Roll” for that particular equipment. Research difficulty and benefits are all explained in the Research section (page XX).


Initiative/Reaction - The Initiative/Reaction stat is used in two different ways as well. At the start of every turn, models take their turns in reverse initiative order. So, if models A,B,C, and D have Initiative stats of 4,5,7, and 4, they would move in the order C,B, and then the players controlling models A and D would each roll a die and the player with the higher score would go first. If both models are controlled by the same player, then that player can choose which model will go first. There are other game factors that can change how initiative order works, for more information see Tempo/Torque points on page XX.

The other way this stat can be used is for a Reaction Roll. Even if a model has exhausted all of his movement for this turn cycle, it may still react to another model’s action, for instance if that model came around a corner and entered it’s line of sight. (Example image insert here).

The Reaction Roll uses the Rule of 7. If a model’s Initiative/Reaction stat is 4, then using the Rule of 7, the model will need a 3+ (7-4=3) to react. Descriptions of the types of quick actions that can be done using a Reaction Roll can be found on page XX.

Other Stats - The following stats are not governed by the Rule of 7, and are checked in other ways (as explained below).

Command - The Command stat determines how willing this model is willing to stay in battle, or to do other tasks where fear may become a factor. Command checks are made on 2D6, and a successful roll is equal or less than the Command stat. The Command stat may be shared between friendly models within 6” of each other. For instance, if Model A has a Command stat of 7, Model B with a Command stat of 5 would use Model A’s Command stat of 7 if he was within 6” of Model A.

Damage - The Damage stat shows how many damaging hits a model can take before it succumbs to pain. Most models have only 1 Damage point, though some extremely tough models (including robots, cyborgs, and some alien species) will have more. When a model takes its final hit, or “is zeroed”, it is to be marked with a “Zeroed” token (or is placed on it’s back if you do not have a suitable token to use). The “Zeroed” process will begin on this model’s next turn.

Zukar Primes, Zukar Brutes, Zukar Subjugates

The Zukari are known throughout the galaxy as connoisseurs of fine art, music, and food. They also freely profess their preference for eating sentient beings. Any Zukari factions visiting Earth aren’t looking for technology, commodities, or cultural significance... they are looking for meat!

Zukari Brutes



Crude initial drawing of Brute.



Armature and first layer of green on Brute. (40mm tall = 8’)

Zukar Brutes do not always respond well to their master’s wishes. Once in close combat, a Brute will not stop until combat is over. Afterwards, it may respond to orders, it may run and attack the nearest model (friend or foe, but not another Brute), or it may even decide to eat the enemy it just incapacitated.

When in close combat, after all enemies are knocked down or otherwise incapacitated, roll a D6.

4-6 - Zukari Brute behaves as expected. Move normally next turn.

2-3 - Zukari Brute instantly moves up to double it’s full movement towards the nearest model (friend or foe, but not another Zukari Brute). Treat Brute as charging if it makes contact with another model. Take a command check on following turn. If failed, continue this result until command check is successfully completed.

1 - Zukari Brute continues to attack fallen model. Attack again using Trauma rules on page XX. Take a command check on following turn. If failed, continue this result until command check is successfully completed.

Zukari Brutes can use the Command stat of any Zukari Primes within 6” for Command Checks.

I have a few questions for you guys, at it seems like there are people lurking on this.

1. Any ideas for a name? I was thinking 2100AD, not realizing the Judge Dredd world was previously called 2000AD. So scratch that.

2. What do you think of adding a little "Mars Attacks" flavor humor into the game?

Ok, where's the love?

Progress!