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My friend has been recently running a Swarmolrd deathstar with his Tyranids (Swarmlord+ Tyrant Guards). Personally I have had a really tough time dealing with it. I know that the best way is to just shoot the out of it with lances and such, but otherwise what can I do? Mindshackle Scarabs as a last ditch effort?

Don't know much about Necrons but any long range Ap3 weapon is a good pick. Then there is ID since swarmlord ain't an eternal warrior.
Or get some scarabs to simply wait and assault or block his path when he gets to close. Who knows maybe they even take away some of the guards armor saves.

The simple solution is to toss a ctan with entropic strike into it, then light it up with firepower next round.

Another trick is simply a monoliths door, and the large blast can whittle the deathstar down on their way over.

Spiders can work well too.

As can doomsday arks

A few cryptec tricks can help as well, as can the good old warscythe

Well now I know some different Ideas for this dilema. I like the entropic C'tan idea. Thanks

salix_fatuus wrote:Don't know much about Necrons but any long range Ap3 weapon is a good pick. Then there is ID since swarmlord ain't an eternal warrior.
Or get some scarabs to simply wait and assault or block his path when he gets to close. Who knows maybe they even take away some of the guards armor saves.

You don't know much about swarmlord either seeing as he is toughness 6 and therefore cannot be instant death.

A swarmlord with 2 guards with LW is 410 pts and therefore should be challenging to deal with. Scarabs may not work that well considering the guards lash whips will likely make you strike last and the Swarm has 5 attacks on the charge plus whatever his guards will dish out. You will have to face his 4++ save in CC. Avoid CC at all costs. The only time I have lost my swarmlord has been from long range fire. Even then he was lucky because most of the time you can find cover by placing your guards in cover much easier than swarmy.. Try simply avoiding him best as you can. Not sure what pts your playing at but in anything less than 1500 the swarm takes about 1/3 of his pts.

skycapt44 wrote:

salix_fatuus wrote:Don't know much about Necrons but any long range Ap3 weapon is a good pick. Then there is ID since swarmlord ain't an eternal warrior.
Or get some scarabs to simply wait and assault or block his path when he gets to close. Who knows maybe they even take away some of the guards armor saves.

You don't know much about swarmlord either seeing as he is toughness 6 and therefore cannot be instant death.

A swarmlord with 2 guards with LW is 410 pts and therefore should be challenging to deal with. Scarabs may not work that well considering the guards lash whips will likely make you strike last and the Swarm has 5 attacks on the charge plus whatever his guards will dish out. You will have to face his 4++ save in CC. Avoid CC at all costs. The only time I have lost my swarmlord has been from long range fire. Even then he was lucky because most of the time you can find cover by placing your guards in cover much easier than swarmy.. Try simply avoiding him best as you can. Not sure what pts your playing at but in anything less than 1500 the swarm takes about 1/3 of his pts.

You use force weapons.

Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

skycapt44 wrote:

salix_fatuus wrote:Don't know much about Necrons but any long range Ap3 weapon is a good pick. Then there is ID since swarmlord ain't an eternal warrior.
Or get some scarabs to simply wait and assault or block his path when he gets to close. Who knows maybe they even take away some of the guards armor saves.

You don't know much about swarmlord either seeing as he is toughness 6 and therefore cannot be instant death.

A swarmlord with 2 guards with LW is 410 pts and therefore should be challenging to deal with. Scarabs may not work that well considering the guards lash whips will likely make you strike last and the Swarm has 5 attacks on the charge plus whatever his guards will dish out. You will have to face his 4++ save in CC. Avoid CC at all costs. The only time I have lost my swarmlord has been from long range fire. Even then he was lucky because most of the time you can find cover by placing your guards in cover much easier than swarmy.. Try simply avoiding him best as you can. Not sure what pts your playing at but in anything less than 1500 the swarm takes about 1/3 of his pts.

You use force weapons.

Well, Necrons don't *have* force weapons.

Seriously, though, if the Swarmlord hits himself, he kills himself. D-e-D. So MSS work great, and he's a big bugger, so you can probably get a few Lords in base contact with him. If you're a tailoring git you might even buy a handful of them (35pts base, 15pts for MSS, so a 50pt model kills a 250-pt MC on a coin flip, that's not bad work if you can get it.)

The swarmlord's biggest weakness other than high strength AP3 weapons is that he doesn't have all that many attacks truth be told. Most of the volume will be dealt out by the Tyrant Guard, so if you can shoot them dead, the Swarmlord is at best only killing 9 units per turn (for both assault phases), maybe more if Leech Essence actually works for once. Then some wraiths with those Necron Lash Whip knock offs can go in and ruin his day.

Kain wrote:The swarmlord's biggest weakness other than high strength AP3 weapons is that he doesn't have all that many attacks truth be told. Most of the volume will be dealt out by the Tyrant Guard, so if you can shoot them dead, the Swarmlord is at best only killing 9 units per turn (for both assault phases), maybe more if Leech Essence actually works for once. Then some wraiths with those Necron Lash Whip knock offs can go in and ruin his day.

waitaminnit - are you implying that our soulless mechanical techno-robots somehow reverse engineered some bug's biological CC wargear? (checking...) well, shoot, almost word for word, maybe so.

I'm not so anxious to go running my pricey 3+/3++ Wraiths up against some gomer that ID's them *and* makes them re-roll their invul save. Ima end up w/260pts of scrap metal there.

Randall Turner wrote:I'm not so anxious to go running my pricey 3+/3++ Wraiths up against some gomer that ID's them *and* makes them re-roll their invul save. Ima end up w/260pts of scrap metal there.

a) 260 points is still less than the Swarmlord
b) With your fancy lash whips you swing before he does
c) It takes your 3++ and drops it down to about the effectiveness of a 4++. That's not too horrible.

Haven't got to fight a Tyranid player yet, but I'll bet aniihilation barges would work pretty well. Twin linked strength 7 hits with some lucky 6's for Tesla will hurt, especially with the 24 inch range. Split them up so that charging one puts him further away from the other. Don't be afraid to forgo shooting for a round are two on one if you have to move more then 6 inches to keep out of range.
There's still the matter of the rest of his army, but that's only 180 points of yours which should, given a few turns, do some serious damage to his.
If you're running a CCB, and there aren't any tasty hive guards/Zoanthropes around, a few sweep attacks could cause some good wounds on top of whatever the barges are doing.
Like I said, I a haven't yet gotten to face a Tyranid army, so I could be completely wrong here.

few things.

1. court guys with a lance can do some damage
2. sweep attacks can wound the swarmlord on a 3+ with no save
3. if you mindshackle the swarmlord he can instantdeath himself and his whole unit
4. tremor staves and stay away from him

Necronboy wrote:My friend has been recently running a Swarmolrd deathstar with his Tyranids (Swarmlord+ Tyrant Guards). Personally I have had a really tough time dealing with it. I know that the best way is to just shoot the out of it with lances and such, but otherwise what can I do? Mindshackle Scarabs as a last ditch effort?

Really, for Necrons, Shooting it is the best bet.

Close combat with him, and the Tyrant guards is the worst case scenario. The thing that sucks about this, is if he has two Tyrant Guards, you are pretty much going to have to go through 9 T6 wounds to kill the Swarmlord. That's a lot of focused fire, to kill him. It can be even worse, because of the Size of Tyrant Guard, he can get a cover save, really easy. The only bright side, is that he is very slow. It will probably take 3 turns before he reaches you.


Sending anything, Including Wraiths, Against him is suicide. Lash Whips on the Tyrant Guard will nullify your Whip Coils, and The Swarmlord will Obliterate the unit with ease. Keep in mind that he can give himself Preferred enemy, for re-rolls to hit. I'd only send them after him, as a last ditch effort.

I would have to see the rest of the Army list, but your best bet, may be to leave him alone, and focus on the rest of the Army. He's scary, but you should have 2-3 Turns before he gets to you. Use this time to dismantle the rest of his Army, so that you can focus on the Deathstar later. If he's packing the Swarmlord, I imagine he's bringing a lot of Outflanking Genestealers, to make use of the massive Bonus the Swarmlord grants them. Make sure you keep that in mind, when Deploying.

I'd say your best bet, are Lanceteks, Tesla Destructors, and any High volume firepower. Destroyers may be key here. While they do wound on 5's, they can put out a pretty good volume of shots, at a safe range.Dedicating a squad to taking out the Swarmlord, should do it before he gets in threat range, to your other units.

Sweep attacks can be effective here. If you Roll 6's, you can allocate to the Swarmlord, and they aren't going to get any kind of save. The Best thing is that the CCB is really quick, and can start putting those wounds on quickly. You also don't have any vehicles to worry about, so this presents a good use for them.

MSS is a real gamble. If he has Two Tyrant Guard, you only have a 33% chance to end up with him, and then he has a 50% to avoid it. If he avoids it, it's game over. Keep in Mind, that he has a 50% to wound himself, and then a 50% chance to save it. He can also allocate some of it against the Tyrant Guard, if he chooses to. Pretty big gamble, but can pay off.

Also remember, you cannot single out the Swarmlord in CC, as he is not a IC.

So, overall, here is what I would do.

1. Focus on the immediate Threats, such as Fleeting Trygons, and outflanking genestealers first. You have some time.
2. Volume of fire when you can, when he starts getting into threat range. Try to feed him single wound units, if you have to send in speedbumps.
3. A Dedicated squad of destroyers can put the hurt down over a few turns, If the Swarmlord is really causing issue for you, this may be the way to go.

rigeld2 wrote:

Randall Turner wrote:I'm not so anxious to go running my pricey 3+/3++ Wraiths up against some gomer that ID's them *and* makes them re-roll their invul save. Ima end up w/260pts of scrap metal there.

a) 260 points is still less than the Swarmlord
b) With your fancy lash whips you swing before he does
c) It takes your 3++ and drops it down to about the effectiveness of a 4++. That's not too horrible.

Drops it down to 4/9 - which, with his rerolls on to hit and wound, means he's killing about two wraiths a round, while they're at more like one Wound a round. That's not going to end well. Maybe if he's already dinged as well as isolated. Maybe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sasori wrote:MSS is a real gamble. If he has Two Tyrant Guard, you only have a 33% chance to end up with him, and then he has a 50% to avoid it. If he avoids it, it's game over. Keep in Mind, that he has a 50% to wound himself, and then a 50% chance to save it. He can also allocate some of it against the Tyrant Guard, if he chooses to. Pretty big gamble, but can pay off.

You're underestimating MSS effect a bit. His attack on himself will be more effective than that. He'll get an average of 2 hits, with a 50% to wound for each and then a 25% to save b/c the Bonesabers will cause him to re-roll his own invul saves. And MSS stacks (2== 75% takeover). Still want to isolate him but if you do, two Lords will probably put him down.

You're underestimating MSS effect a bit. His attack on himself will be more effective than that. He'll get an average of 2 hits, with a 50% to wound for each and then a 25% to save b/c the Bonesabers will cause him to re-roll his own invul saves. And MSS stacks (2== 75% takeover). Still want to isolate him but if you do, two Lords will probably put him down.

I did forget about him Rerolling his Invul, for himself, that much is true. However, I think getting Two Lords into combat with him, without his Tyrant Guard would be a challenge on it's own. It would be pretty simple to tie up the Two lords with and Endless supply of Termagaunts, before they can touch the Swarmlord. Which is quite likely, since the Unit would be using them to grant a cover save.

This also runs the risk of being a bit tailored. I personally don't two single unit Court lords, in any of my lists. It's a possible solution, but seems to me one of the more riskier ones, and relies on a lot more cirumstances than the others. That being said, if you get everything to go your way, then it can end up being the most effective.

Sasori wrote: This also runs the risk of being a bit tailored.

LOL ya think? I'll tell you, though, this guy scares me. I was going to suggest some C'Tan solution, then re-read those Bonesabers and went, "oh, nonono."

C'tan w/ Time's Arrow + Wraiths w/ whip coils

sure it's a bit slow moving, but you will probably make someone have a really, REALLY bad day (unless he's a genius at rolling 1's)

Randall Turner wrote:

Sasori wrote: This also runs the risk of being a bit tailored.

LOL ya think? I'll tell you, though, this guy scares me. I was going to suggest some C'Tan solution, then re-read those Bonesabers and went, "oh, nonono."

Hmm. Now I'm gonna have to re-read the Bonesaber section cause I was thinking the same. I would think a C'tan with Times Arrow, even without the wraiths, would be able to take him down more often then not though, provided you can eliminate the Guard with shooting first.

You mentioned Re-roll to hits and re-roll to wounds... I guess the RR to hits is coming from preferred enemy on one of his Psychic abilities? Where is the RR to wounds coming from (honest question, been way to long)?

Oh and, the sabers give him a 4+ invuln in CC huh?

Hmm, that does make it pretty close. The C'tan would be winning the to wound roll and to be wounded roll, but Swarmy would be winning the to hit by a good margin as well as the better net save, plus bett initiative and more wounds. Still, it should take at least two turns anyway right? Still with two Times Arrow rolls thats about a 33% chance for Swarmy to get insta gibbed.

I'll have to check it when I get home, but I think I've reasoned myself into agreeing that it will be better then a coin flip for Swarmy straight up, even with an optimal load out for the star god (Gaze of Death could help a shread, I can't think of another C'tan power that could even this particular fight, I mean obviously the BS 5 lascannon could wittle him down quite a bit before jumping in and maybe finishing him off).


As far as other Cronie toys, Harp could work wonders were, with a bit of luck, VB/PC Triarch Praetorians + WC Wraiths would wreck shop.

Oh and Phaeroned Transdimensional beaming Wraiths would be pretty nasty, as they are against any expensive base.

I took the lesson on Dreadknights to heart, Shadar, and started reading this thread expecting the C'Tan (who really looks optimized for MC combat) to be the silver bullet. But now I don't have my books either, lol! The main thing scary about the Bonesabers was making the C'Tan reroll any invul saves. Oh, and that's right in the Bonesaber special rule in the Tyranid codex (on my desk at work.) It sez, "hafta reroll invul saves, beeyatch!" or words to that effect in some appropriate scawy bug dialect.